Rollback RX v11.x (Home & Professional)

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by TheRollbackFrog, Jul 5, 2018.

  1. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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    It's called UNINSTALL.EXE :argh::p
     
  2. carfal

    carfal Registered Member

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  3. Hadron

    Hadron Registered Member

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    But, is that good enough?
    You might need a third party uninstaller. :isay:
     
  4. pandlouk

    pandlouk Registered Member

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    @TheRollbackFrog the takedown of their forums is typical of that company. They always did this when they released a new version or when the reported problems were a clear evidence that the RollbackRX was/is more hazardous than beneficial.
    e.g.
    https://web.archive.org/web/2007*/http://www.horizondatasys.com/forums/
    https://web.archive.org/web/2009*/http://horizondatasys-forum.com/horizon-datasys/
    https://web.archive.org/web/2013*/http://community.horizondatasys.com/
    :argh:
    Nah, you just wait a few months and windows 10 update will fix it...:D
    The best thing that happened for their customers is Windows 10 (although I hate it) and Microsoft's forced update update policy.:ninja::isay:

    Panagiotis
     
  5. manolito

    manolito Registered Member

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    I am certainly not the one to defend the HDS company, but some of the accusations against this company are not really justified...

    I agree that for Rollback RX versions prior to v. 10.xx the uninstaller did a lousy job. Lots of remnants in the registry which needed to be removed manually. But starting with v. 10.xx this has changed. The RB RX uninstaller is now pretty good compared to other uninstallers. Just delete the "Shield" entry in the "program files" folder, and in Regedit search for "\shield". Not a lot of stuff which needs manual removal.

    Of course this is different if you expect that after uninstall the trial counter will be reset. It will not, and to do this you will need a third party uninstaller, preferably one which uses an install tracker. But this is a different story...

    Otherwise I tested the current (now discontinued) Home version of RB RX 11, and it really is not that bad...

    It protects all partitions by default, no way to change this. Installing it with "Hybrid=0" is not recommended. It will bring back the old baseline manager, but it does not work. Trying to reset the baseline to the current system will result in a software hangup (on two different machines).

    But otherwise it worked just fine. No file sytem corruption during my tests.If you can live with the restrictions then this free version is not that bad.

    Next thing I did was comparing it with the v. 10.7 Home version. This version only protects the system partition, no way to change this. But I do prefer this behavior. Otherwise I did not see any major difference to the latest 11.3 Home version. No corruption issues...

    For me the main issue with all RB RX versions after v. 9.1 is that Hot image backups will not restore properly unless the MBR is repaired before rebooting. Of course it can be done (BootICE or similar, Win Install DVD, Macrium Rescue Disk), but it remains a major hassle. For me the oldfashioned RB RX v. 9.1 is the best solution. No file system corruption whatever you do, and Hot image backups can be restored without boot problems. Right now I have a RB RX 9.1 installation on this machine which is almost 4 months old, and it did not cause any problems so far.

    Cheers
    manolito

    //EDIT//
    OK, I forgot to mention that all the above only applies to a system using Win7-64 or below. No UEFI (just Legacy BIOS), no GPT partitions (just standard MBR partitions).
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019
  6. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi Manolito

    I wonder if you would be willing to try the test I apply to all imaging programs I use. What I do is this:

    I take an image(or snapshot), and then start a restore. Once into the restore I hit the power reset, which trashes the drive. I then do another restore, and expect and get full drive recovery. Would Rollback survive this test.

    Pete
     
  7. carfal

    carfal Registered Member

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    @Peter
    I think you and perhaps even others have made this argument many times and you are all right....RB would probably not survive this test. However, it has also been argued many times that RB is not a backup solution. Its an Instant System Restore (in the true sense of the word). You literally restore you system within a boot cycle plus 10sec (or less) snapshot load time. No imager can come close to this because we're talking 2 completely different technologies. It's true that IRS tech is unpredictable and therefore a much more reliable tech (a 3rd party imager) is a wise decision. Some would argue why have 2 solutions when one (the imager) is the safer choice. Well, personal preference. Im my case, i dont care how much an Imager has improved their product speed, they will never be RB fast! This is something i choose to live with as you all know, i am well prepared for disaster as are others on this forum that use RB regularly.

    It's true that HDS have claimed that all you need is RB and that is a shame on them. I think lately they have acknowledged that a 3rd party Imager is required for proper protection but they dont spell it out. Because of this behavior they have justly been harshly judged. No arguments there.

    @manolito
    There should be more posts like yours where practical advice and solutions are offered. Thankyou
     
  8. manolito

    manolito Registered Member

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    Thanks carfal for your kind words... Like you I am a "snapshot addict", no imager comes close to its performance. But also like you I do not use it as a backup software, I always have 3 generations of Acronis image backup chains.

    @Peter
    After thinking about your proposed tests for a while, I do not think that it is useful. After a forced Power-Off of course your drive will be trashed, and if the data from which you want to restore will survive depends on the phase of the moon, or if today is your lucky day.

    But the same is true when you restore an image from an external HDD. A hard Power-Off of this external drive will also trash this drive, and if you are not lucky then the image you want to restore from will be unreadable. In most cases you will not be able to repair this image file with ChkDsk /F or other repair tools. Having some salvaged file fragments in a "FOUND000" folder will not cut it.

    The only advantage in such a situation is that with image backups on external drives you can rotate the drives or copy all image files to the cloud, i.e. have some redundancy. This is not possible with Rollback. But then again RB RX should never be used as a backup software which you absolutely need to rely on (because maybe your business depends on not loosing any data).

    Cheers
    manolito
     
  9. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi Manolito

    Admittedly I don't use external drives, but why would restoring an image from them cause damage to them when doing a restore. I do this restoring from internal drives and yes it destroys the target drive, but not the source drive.

    Also using Macrium v6 with CBT active my imaging time when I use it as a snapshot solution is typically only 45 seconds and my restore time about 55 seconds. I can live with that.
     
  10. manolito

    manolito Registered Member

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    Why would that be so? If you do a hard Power-Down while doing a restore both the source drive and the target drive do a file operation. So both the source file and the target file are open when they are shut down. On the target drive no file is being written, it's just sectors so of course the interrupted restore will result in an unreadable state of the target drive. But the the image file on the source drive may just as well get damaged by a hard shutdown.

    I believe that when restoring a Rollback snapshot the situation is pretty much the same. The difference is that the source is not part of the "real" Windows file system, but if a hard shutdown normally does not damage your image file on another internal HDD then chances are that the Rollback data outside of the file system will survive the shutdown just as well.
     
  11. manolito

    manolito Registered Member

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    OK, my curiosity took the upper hand, so I finally did take the challenge and executed Peter's tests...

    Took me a couple of hours because I first did a cold sector-by-sector backup to make sure I could go back from where I started. But this turned out to be unnecessary.

    I did the tests with Rollback RX 9.1, I had 20 snaps over a time period of over 3 months. I rolled back my system drive to more than 5 earlier snaps, and I shut down my laptop during the "loading snapshot" phase. Either by pressing the power switch for some seconds, or by pulling the power supply connector with no battery installed. In all cases upon restarting the computer the "loading snapshot" phase resumed without errors, the computer booted normally, and a "Chkdsk" confirmed that there was no file system corruption.

    So I conclude that RB RX has passed Peter's challenge with flying colors. If the hard shutdown did not corrupt Peter's source drive, it also did not corrupt the Rollback data and vectors which are stored on the protected drive (but outside of the Windows file system).

    Of course I cannot say if this is also true for later RB RX versions. But for my sytem using Rollback v. 9.1 and avoiding UEFI and GPT and also staying away from Win10 it is quite safe as long as you observe Froggie's tips in his “unOfishul” FAQ.
     
  12. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Excellent!! Thanks for the test.

    Pete
     
  13. pandlouk

    pandlouk Registered Member

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    Hi Manolito, that test does not affect v9.1. It will only affect it:
    1) if you perform it during a baseline update (will corrupt the partition or the disk), or
    2) if the power cut happens when Rollback RX defrags/optimizes the snapshots, which will leave you only with the baseline (rolback will recreate it's database and remove all the snapshots).
    and the second can happen not only during a power surge but with a sudden bsod too.

    and as you said, Rollback RX maybe is safe for your system, your OS and the programs that you install but that does not mean that the same is true for every pc.
    ps. do not use IFW "live" all sectors backup. It can lead to a bizzare situation where your baseline is actually the active snapshot.

    Panagiotis
     
  14. pandlouk

    pandlouk Registered Member

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    In my previous post I forgot to mention the easiest way to cripple a system protected by RollbackRx .... simply add files in the active snapshot until no free space is left. On the reboot you won't be able to change snapshot, to remove snapshots, to revert to the baseline or to uninstall it from the console. v9.1 was vulnareble to this and have reported it to them, but I don;t know if they fixed it in later versions.
     
  15. carfal

    carfal Registered Member

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    Ok. The point I made of 2 different technologies seems to have not been considered here at all.

    Panagiotis, both your points state an obvious conclusion. If RB is in the middle of doing operations that involve meddling with the file markers in its "database" then is it really a surprise that your system is kaput.

    This is akin to MR doing a backup and you cut power or whatever. The current backup would also be kaput. But....the big difference is that MR's previous backup would still be perfectly intact and you'd still have a working system.

    I'll say it again....2 different technologies, the latter clearly more reliable as i have stated before and a necessity when using RB.
     
  16. pandlouk

    pandlouk Registered Member

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    I never compared with Macrium Reflect.
    1) have you seen anywhere on their guide or their knowledge base, a warning that RollbackRX should not be used without a ups protecting the pc? I haven't.
    2) this should never happen. People install it, for protecting themselves from bad updates, viruses, program testing and BSODs. No one explains to them, that if during an program installation or an update they encounter a BSOD, (and if rollbackrx optimizes it's database at the same time) they have a very high probability of lossing their snapshots and their data...

    I agree but MR does not take down the entire system with it. And even if it did it allows you to restore to a previous backup.
    RBrx on the other hand takes down the entire system and despite it's main purpose which is to protect and recover the system, does not protect, fails to recover and if that is not enough makes it impossible to retrieve any files from the disk. And people are buying it for that exact reason, where it fails miserably.

    Panagiotis
     
  17. carfal

    carfal Registered Member

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    I really cant defend RB on any argument that says RB is unreliable, unsafe, disastrous, etc, etc. It's all been said so many times before that I've become numb to it. But every now and then I take a bite. :blink:

    I'm certain we all respect each others opinion even though RB seems to invoke vigorous discussion.:rolleyes:

    In the meantime, I will continue to enjoy RB with all of its dangers.
     
  18. manolito

    manolito Registered Member

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    The HDS advertising seems to suggest this, but we all know (at least should know - Froggie's “unOfishul” FAQ even appears in the new Reddit forum) that this is not true.

    Maybe we can agree that imaging software and RBrx serve two different purposes, and that RBrx should always be used together with an image based backup software.

    The free Home versions of Rollback seem to be a good idea in this respect. Their snapshot limit of 7 snaps will discourage users who need a comprehensive backup solution. But for the purpose I use Rollback this limit does hardly affect me. If you use the RBrx Home version together with MR free then you will have good protection plus high speed when switching between snaps. And since the Macrium rescue disk has an option to repair the MBR before rebooting after a restore operation it is even very convenient to make Hot image backups with Macrium under the control of the RBrx low level driver. And best of all this combination is free.

    There is another thing I forgot to mention after testing the Rollback Home versions. There are predefined scheduled tasks (new snaphot on the first boot of the day, and for v. 11.3 also a task to defrag snaps on shutdown). Users cannot edit these tasks. There is no button to remove these tasks, but you can delete them with the DEL key on the keyboard. This it not too obvious, not even the HDS folks on the forum seem to know this. But with the snapshot limit of 7 I find it very useful if I am not forced to take a new snapshot every day. There is a drawback, though: After deleting these scheduled tasks there is no way to bring them back except uninstalling and reinstalling the program.
     
  19. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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    I think Mab (@manolito ) and @carfal have covered the successful uses of Rollback (with appropriate backup) pretty well. But I must warn those who have never used it and may be interested, especially as it pertains to Rollback RX HOME (the FREE version), END OF LIFE for the HOME version was announced by HDS recently (following the same announcement for DRIVE CLONER). That usually means that support for that version will be sparse at best from here on. The PRO version will live on...
     
  20. manolito

    manolito Registered Member

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    Right, but in my experience the HDS support for the free versions was always rudimentary at best. Users who need support for the free versions are much better off looking for help in places like Wilders. If you use Win10 this may be a different story, because every 6 month when a major feature update is released (they really should not call it update, it really is an upgrade to a whole new OS) there may be a requirement to update Rollback RX to accommodate this new OS. And at this point the free version will become useless for users of Win10. And I would rather not trust HDS to provide an update to a software version which is officially discontinued (unlike Macrium who did release an update for the discontinued version 6 of MR when Win10 would refuse to run it after an OS feature update).
     
  21. pandlouk

    pandlouk Registered Member

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    Of course I respect your opinion. And I'm sure that RollbackRX works well on your laptops. I have never seen it give, the problems it gives on desktops, on laptops (1st because they are protected from sudden power loss with their batteries and 2nd because their drivers rarelly get updated so the chance of BSODs are minimal).
    And the same is true for Reboot Restore RX Pro (formerly know as Drive Vaccine). I have never seen it cause the problems of Rollback RX.

    Panagiotis
     
  22. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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    OK, what I've been able to determine from the previous discussion is...

    Rollback RX SUCKS... and IT DOESN'T! o_O

    I guess I'll have to wait until it does one OR the other to make my final decision...
     
  23. pandlouk

    pandlouk Registered Member

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    If you use it to test spftware, drivers and protection from malware it sucks.
    If you use databases and apps that need fast I/O access it sucks. (the reason that they do not offer it for servers).
    If you have a never changing system (and you are on a ups, or you use it on a laptop), should be ok.
    If you ever need support assistance, search for a different product/company.

    ps. you described it perfectly. Rollback RX is great as long as it works, the moment it fails is disastrous. So to summarize it doesn't suck... until it does, and when that happens, sucks big time...

    Panagiotis
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019
  24. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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  25. carfal

    carfal Registered Member

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