Rollback RX v10.x (Home & Professional)

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by Peter2150, Jun 10, 2015.

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  1. StevenG

    StevenG Registered Member

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    That is very encouraging to me. I have read some posts by people who think that the re-allocation was done outside of Windows... kind of like using Gparted... which would screw just about anything up.
     
  2. StevenG

    StevenG Registered Member

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    Aha!
     
  3. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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    Steven, it shouldn't be encouraging. All the reported failures to this point have not been what I described above. Based on that, the slicing/dicing operation was done in a different way... one that Rollback new nothing about.

    What probably screwed RBrx was that not only was the partition changed, and probably not under RBrx, but a re-written MBR to update to the new partition geometry must have occurred and caused RBrx to not BOOT. I know that RBrx will NOT ALLOW the modification of the MBR while it's in control.

    I don't believe any of us completely understand how MicroSloth actually did that update (and the one to W8.1 Update 1). If we did we might have a clue as to what really happened... and I surely don't have the time to go through multiple v1511 W10 updates (gruesome) to figure it out :rolleyes:
     
  4. StevenG

    StevenG Registered Member

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    Froggie-

    I understand. My encouragement comes from the fact that if most updates can be reverted using RB, I feel OK, since I use raw imaging in addition.

    If I cannot stop the updates (by stopping the service and redirecting my hosts file or using a 3rd party program), and I get hit with a bad update, I will full restore the disk which is a pain, but I lose nothing but an hour. However, if the updates get through and I can use RB, that's gravy.

    I personally am still outraged with the MS policy on updates. With Win 10 I feel like I have an Apple, but not executed as well.

    Regards,
    SteveG
     
  5. Stode

    Stode Registered Member

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    Last edited: Jan 15, 2016
  6. Masterblaster

    Masterblaster Registered Member

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    I am still confused by your comments. Because I recommend something doesn't mean I don't like what I didn't recommend. There are many solid backup programs beyond what I mentioned. I have tried the free Macrium Reflect so I couldn't take advantage of it's true speed. I know it to be a good program but somewhat confusing to use compared to what I recommended.
     
  7. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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    I still don't quite understand what you are saying here. If you're talking about the "standard" OS module/driver updating that goes on with MicroSloth upds and not the partition changing then I understand... RB does well with reverting after those kinds of updates. But with some (partition changing) you may have nothing more than your Baseline or your RAW backup to return to... snaps can be history.

    It sounds like you're taking RAW backups hourly... that's quite a task. Are they FULL-only or a mix of FULL/DIFF/INC? And, if I may ask, what imaging system are you using for this operation? RAW DIFFs and INCs require full read passes of the disk to perform... a very lengthy process unless you have very small protected volumes.
    The update policy is very configuration dependent and they have a job to do. Other than asking for permission to update the system (which should absolutely be done if a System storage geometry update is required <there shouldn't be many of these> ), I can't see how they could possibly know how to deal with such an update as far as other incestuous software applications, multi-system BOOTing, and just plain local system management concerns. They've entered into a new realm of system management and will surely learn along the way... probably the hard way (as users will also learn). So far, all M$ problem updates have only incl. Recovery Partition changes due to additional requirements. If a System includes a separate Recovery Partition, and modern systems have good sized disks, instead of small incrementing their required partition changes, why can't they just spec a minimum required Recovery Partition that will last the life of the OS... it's not like this is rocket science. They know the history of Recovery requirements as far as increase is needed... why not just generate a few gBs (5?) for that partition to start with and leave it alone for a few decades. When the time comes for a real need to change it, it can be done with plenty of warning and maybe even a painless mechanism to do such during a future system update.

    All you can do is simplify your system as much as you can to keep this Manufacturer tinkering to a minimum. All the W10 systems that I'm responsible for are configured as Legacy-MBR... none of them need any BOOTing features offered by UEFI. They are also sans Windows Recovery Partitions and M$ System Reserved partitions. This has eliminated any issues with all this Recovery Partition changing that has occurred since W8.1.1... the Recovery System is located in the main BOOT (Windows) partition and that's where the Recovery system update work is being performed... no partition size changing required to accommodate.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2016
  8. manolito

    manolito Registered Member

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    Thanks Froggie,

    maybe this should lead to a tip in your "Unofishul FAQ" how Rollback users can harden their systems against these Win update disasters.

    1. If you use BitLocker and do not want to remove it, then don't read any further...

    2. If you do not use BitLocker AND your system is already BIOS / MBR, then check if the System Reserved Partition is present on your HDD. If it is then get rid of it (there are some tutorials on the Internet).

    3. If you do not use Bitlocker but your system is UEFI / GPT, then you should check if you really need the features offered by UEFI / GPT. If you don't please consider converting your GPT partitions to MBR and disabling UEFI. Then continue with step #2.



    Of course all of this should only be done with the usual cautionary measures like uninstall Rollback first, then make a full system backup with a reliable image backup software.


    Cheers
    manolito
     
  9. manolito

    manolito Registered Member

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    Froggie's "Unofishul FAQ" at the HDS forum

    Just found out that the link to the PDF file is dead. Not only did they remove the "Sticky" tag from the post (now it is hard to find, currently on page 3), but now it looks like they also got rid of the original file attachment.

    Hard to say if this is just a technical glitch on their website, but it seems to fit their pattern how to deal with critical comments.

    Suggestion to the forum mods:
    Is it possible to have Froggie's FAQ here at Wilders as a Sticky?


    Cheers
    manolito
     
  10. hjlbx

    hjlbx Guest

    It appears intentional.
     
  11. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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    I just checked and the document is still there, downloadable and readable.

    Mab, maybe some sort of access problem...??
     
  12. manolito

    manolito Registered Member

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    Just tried again on two different computers, no luck. This is the URL which is called when clicking the attached PDF:
    http://community.horizondatasys.com/filedata/fetch?id=3244

    And then nothing at all happens. No error message, nothing. Or do you have to register in the forum to be able to see attachments? Something I certainly do not want to do.


    Cheers
    manolito
     
  13. MarcP

    MarcP Registered Member

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    You have to be logged in to download the PDF. I tried it while logged out and I get the same effect as you. Once I log in, it works.
     
  14. silver0066

    silver0066 Registered Member

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    I am logged in and it still does not work.
     
  15. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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    If people really need this document, it can be found HERE in a similar Wilders thread... I try and keep it updated in both places.
     
  16. manolito

    manolito Registered Member

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    Thanks for the link...
    Somehow I was under the impression that the PDF had been removed from Wilders and a mod had suggested to move this discussion to the HDS forum.

    BTW the FAQ should be updated a little bit:
    Win10 compatibitlity has been added recently, and the current version does no longer change the update mode to manual.


    Cheers
    manolito
     
  17. bgoodman4

    bgoodman4 Registered Member

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    Just noticed that the Froggies FAQ thread has become a sticky,,,,good to see.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2016
  18. shmu26

    shmu26 Registered Member

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    allow me to jump in: I installed rollback on my SSD, and then I saw posts about the TRIM problem.
    I uninstalled rollback, and then restored my system using Macrium Reflect.
    The system restore went very unusual: first it ran a TRIM function, and then it did a full copy, instead of the usual check for changes and then rapid restore. But in the end, it restored successfully.

    Question: Is my SSD now back to normal? If not, what do I need to do?
     
  19. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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    No, it's not back to normal. Reflect only TRIMs the blocks it plans to restore... all the old Rollback RX snapshot data is still in place.

    If you're running W8/W10, you can run the Windows OPTIMIZE function and it will clean up your SSD completely. If you're running W7, you can download the SSDtool and run that to clean up your SSD. Neither of these functions will operate properly (they will run but will not work) until your system has been completely reBOOTed following the removal of Rollback RX (a leftover driver prevents them from functioning correctly).
     
  20. shmu26

    shmu26 Registered Member

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    thanks
    I already ran optimize in win10

    what do you say about the idea of installing the free edition of Rollback RX on an SSD, and every once in a while, uninstall and reboot -- run optimize -- and reinstall?
    I have a 250 GB disk with more than 170 GB unused space (without Rollback).
    I don't perform a lot of heavy functions and writes. Most of the time I am typing in MS Word or doing something in chrome. I would guess that I could go for three-four weeks without performing TRIM, and not suffer from it.
    What do you say?

    EDIT:
    If I am running Rollback free and I don't mind reinstalling and losing my snapshots, so what about running Macrium Reflect also? I don't care if after restoring with MR, that I will have to reinstall Rollback.
    But is there a reliable way to fix EUFI boot, in case it goes bad? What about the native Macrium Reflect boot repair tool? Will that work?
    And will I end up with an intact system, or do I risk corruption?
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2016
  21. manolito

    manolito Registered Member

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    I can only answer this for non-UEFI systems. Running RBrx free alongside with Macrium Reflect free works like a charm...

    I only do HOT backups under the control of the Rollback driver. This method backs up the current system, i.e. all snapshot content is included in the backup. Restoring such a backup only works from the recovery media, it will NOT work from from the BCD store menu entry which Macrium optionally creates. (I recommend to not even create this menu entry if you make backups under Rollback).

    After a successfull restore it is absolutely essential to apply Macriums Boot Repair tool before trying to reboot the system. If you forget this, Rollback will try to fix your system which will make it completely unusable. After applying the Macrium Boot repair your system will boot without problems, but you will have to reinstall Rollback (and of course all previous snapshots will be gone). So far this method has worked reliably for me on 3 different computers under Win7 64-bit and Win7 32-bit. But as I already said, no UEFI and no GPT.

    If you need to include all Rollback snapshots in your backups, the a COLD all-sector backup is your only option. This is totally safe, but takes a lot of time.


    And about the (lack of the) TRIM feature under Rollback: IMO the effects are minimal if you use a fairly recent SDD which has advanced garbage collection. SSDs using a SandForce controller featuring DuraWrite technology do not really need trim. Here is a quote from this article:
    http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015...garbage-collection-so-i-dont-need-trim-right/


    Cheers
    manolito
     
  22. shmu26

    shmu26 Registered Member

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    thanks.
    If I forget to run the MR boot repair , and RB borks my system, can I fix it again by rerunning the MR system restore?
    What about wiping the disk and then performing a MR restore? Does that help?
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2016
  23. shmu26

    shmu26 Registered Member

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    okay, I tried it with EUFI boot.
    I installed RB, made a MR hot incremental image, and then I restored to that image, booting from a flash drive. It went smooth, with rapid restore like it is supposed to (I have MR Home, with rapid restore). Then I immediately ran boot repair, before even leaving the MR interface.
    It booted. But RB still worked, and Windows didn't behave properly. I was able to get to my desktop, but things weren't right. So I decided to restore to a RB snapshot.
    It restored, but then couldn't boot. So I ran MR boot repair again, and this time, RB needed a reinstall, but Windows worked right.
    Weird process, but all's well that end's well.
     
  24. manolito

    manolito Registered Member

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    Basically rerunning the MR system restore and then applying the boot fix tool should be all you need. I have no idea if wiping the disk before has any effect, it sure can't hurt.

    OK, you beat me with your last post...
    You did a Rapid Delta Restore, and of course this will make a major difference. It will not touch any areas of your HDD which Macrium thinks they have not changed. And this will probably leave the Rollback pre-OS driver intact, but this Rollback installation will be damaged.


    Cheers
    manolito
     
  25. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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    Hi Rodey! Have decided to answer your questions in this thread as it's followed much more closely by RBrx fans than the FAQ thread is.

    CTM, Rollback RX and Eaz-Fix are all of the same ilk... they all work basically the same way and all have the same shortcomings as described in "The 'unOfishul FAQ." Eaz-Fix and Rollback RX share a core development team, although their final distributions are not always in lockstep. CTM is based on a very old variation of Rollback RX (v7 or v8, I believe), and as mentioned earlier, is very underdeveloped at this stage. I'm not sure it was ever fully qualified for W7 and "fer shur" never qualified for W8 or W10 (some have found it to work with these distributions)... personally, I would not use its current iteration beyond WXP.

    Eaz-Fix or Rollback RX would be my choice for someone wanting to use this type of snapshot program.

    Note: LIVE Macrium Reflect backup images of a Rollback RX protected system WILL NOT BOOT upon restoration. If using v6 of Reflect, the BOOT Repair feature (not avaialable in v5), upon immediate use following your restoration, will be able to make your system BOOTable. But pls be aware... upon a successful BOOT, Rollback RX will be completely neutered (and will have to be unInstalled and re-installed for continued use) and all snapshots (incl. your Baseline or "installation" snapshot) will be lost and totally unavailable. The BOOTed system will be at the last current state prior to your Reflect image.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2016
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