Rollback Rx question

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by Moreudomoreuget, Jan 3, 2012.

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  1. Moreudomoreuget

    Moreudomoreuget Registered Member

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    First post on this forum, but have been lurking for the last few days trying to learn as much as I can.

    I purchased a new Lenovo desktop with Windows 7 which comes with a feature called One-Key Recovery. Image back up and restore.

    However, Windows 7 also has a back up feature, and from what I read DOES compress the images (even though many say it doesn't, so not sure which is correct).

    I was doing research on all these different image back up programs (Macrium, EaseUs, Acronis, IFW, Keriver 1-click) and I must say the options made me a bit dizzy o_O

    Then I stumbled on a few threads about Rollback Rx, and it seems good from what I see, but isn't an image back up.

    My question is, in your opinions, which would be better, doing image back up or using Rollback Rx?

    I'm under the impression both cannot be used without substantial tweaking (from what I'm reading). I also gather that both can be used in case of OS failure, but Image back ups would be effective if there is hard drive failure, where Rollback Rx would not be helpful..

    Thanks!
     
  2. twl845

    twl845 Registered Member

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    I installed Rollback Rx. Rollback creates snapshots. You can fall back to a snapshot you took at an earlier date if you get in trouble, like the trouble never happened. You should access www.horizondatasys.com or www.Rollbacksoftware.com to get more info. I also installed Drive Cloner Rx, an imaging app from the same company, Horizon data systems which works well with Rollback Rx. I'm sure more experienced users will offer more detailed help shortly. I think getting Rollback is a good move.
    Welcome to the forum!
     
  3. Jo Ann

    Jo Ann Registered Member

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    Hello, happy new year, and welcome to Wilders! If you had to choose between the two, image-backup would win hands-down (for the very reason you stated at the end of your post) ...but unless you have the time and discipline to make frequent image-backups, RB can be of tremendous value recovering from most user goofs, uninstalling program installations, and much more.


    Actually, tweaking is not really necessary, just procedural understanding. Much has already been written on this subject in this forum, but if you have specific questions.....

    JA
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2012
  4. Moreudomoreuget

    Moreudomoreuget Registered Member

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    Thank you for the welcome Jo Ann, I was half-expecting my first post to be totally ignored!

    I definitely would be able to make image-backups once a week at least, but I do like what Rollback offers because it is convenient.

    I will admit I have never had an HD failure, but I know there is a first time for everything.

    My different thoughts are:

    Get Rollback, but do one last image-backup before installation, so I can recover at least the fresh computer in the case of hard drive disaster.

    Back up files as I create or download them the old fashioned way using a USB or external drive, then transfer them to a new HD alongside the image-backup (in the HD failure scenario).

    OR

    As you said, obtain the procedural understanding needed to be able to do both, imaging & Rollback.

    I was reading the thread where people were trying to use IFW w/ Rollback, but I'm afraid it was too confusing for me, especially after reading all day on different security strategies.

    All the basic security information on here like LUA, UAC, SRP, DEP, virtualization, sandboxie, hardening using EMET and AppGuard is completely new to me, but I'm picking it up and slowly adding things to the new computer while taking notes of each step I'm taking.

    (New computer is not connected to the internet yet, and was only connected to update drivers/etc., but I have made myself a LUA, maximized UAC, and used parental controls in Win 7 to employ SRP, DEP I haven't done yet.)

    If you feel a beginner like me can learn how to do it though, I'll try my best. Next quarter of college is coming up on Monday so I'll have to learn within this week, because starting Monday my nose is in the books!

    P.S: I think deciphering acronyms in people's posts are the worst part in learning these things for a rookie like me o_O

    Thanks once again,

    Elijah
     
  5. Moreudomoreuget

    Moreudomoreuget Registered Member

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    Thank you for the reply twl,

    When I was researching Rollback Rx, I noticed some people were voicing frustration that Rollback should be able to be used with the same companies imaging app, and that it wasn't the case.

    So I had dismissed the idea maybe prematurely!

    However I can't remember if those posts were recent or from a year ago, but I'm betting their old posts since it works for you.

    That is definitely good news, and I'll do more research on the combination of them, but if I could figure out how to use a free imaging app with Rollback that would be best for me.

    Much appreciation,

    Elijah
     
  6. bgoodman4

    bgoodman4 Registered Member

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    IMHO you should def be using both RollBack Rx and an imaging program together. Rollback will get you out of the vast majority of problems with the exception of hardware failure or loss of the PC. Images of course can be used to deal with these problems. The procedural issues are not at all complex, its just a matter of learning what the (simple) process is and then following it. Rx is one of the simplest programs to use, there are a few settings to select upon install and then the program requires minimal intervention.

    I agree with Jo-Ann that if you can only afford one program it should be an imaging program but you will have to be diligent when making images. IMO even once a week is too infrequent for a stand alone process which is one of the reasons I added Rx to my toolkit.

    I have Rx set to take a snap hourly as well as upon restart. I image using DriveCloner with Rx installed weekly, and I uninstal Rx monthly in order to do PC house cleaning and to make an image of the drive with Rx uninstalled (I use Paragon Backup for this). I have not had to do an image restore in the 3+ years I have been using Rx but I have done a great many rollbacks using Rx.

    Every time I do an update of any program (or the OS) I take a manual snapshot first, every time I load a new program to test or to keep I again first take a snap. If I am opening an e-mail I am unsure of, or visiting a suspect web-site I take a manual snap first, if I am changing the systems settings for some reason I first do a snap. The reason I do this is that it takes less than 5 seconds to do the snap, and if something goes wrong with any of the above I simply roll back to the manual snap and the problem is gone. How can you possibly beat that?

    Of course you could do images before each of the above but that is a very time consuming process and it is not likely you will have the time or inclination to do this.

    I hope this helps and if you have any questions of a specific or general nature about imaging and Rx ask away, we will be happy to help.
     
  7. TheMozart

    TheMozart Former Poster

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    What can Rollback Rx do that Windows 7 restore point cannot?
     
  8. Moreudomoreuget

    Moreudomoreuget Registered Member

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    TheMozart, I'm a beginner, so I could be completely off here!

    I had glanced at some information on what system restore does, and from what I gathered, it seemed that system restore did not restore everything. The impression I got is that it only restores certain drives, and important files, but isn't something that can exactly replicate your computer as it is.

    I also read that system restore takes a lot more space than taking a snapshot.

    Once again, I'm new around here, so I might be saying things improperly, but that is what my impression of the difference was.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2012
  9. Moreudomoreuget

    Moreudomoreuget Registered Member

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    Thanks for taking the time to write and give me advice, I really do appreciate it.

    After reading that you use Paragon for the imaging, I went ahead and did research on it in comparison with Keriver, and Macrium. It seems a lot people like Paragon, so I will go ahead and use that.

    I tried using my Windows 7 imaging and also the built in Lenovo One-key recovery, but had some problems when trying to test out the back up dvd I made. The computer did not seem to recognize the dvd drive, but I'm sure I was just doing something wrong.

    So based on that, I will purchase a little external hard drive, hopefully something in the $50 range, and use Paragon to do back ups to that.

    I did more research on Rollback, and found a post by Jo Ann and another poster who said the new Rollback version has a cmd put in that enabled defrag without having to uninstall Rollback.

    The steps were:
    • From Start > Run, enter and run the command line shieldcmd /defrag
    • Then defrag your OS and File system using your disk-defragger (in your case, Diskeeper).
    • Note: This will result in an 'artificially large' subsequent RB snapshot, so it's important to next run Update Baseline (not Reset Baseline) from within the RB console's Manage Baseline in order reorganize and optimize RB's snapshots.


    Just as a confirmation, is there any drawbacks to doing it this way?
     
  10. bgoodman4

    bgoodman4 Registered Member

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    It is def a good idea to image to an external drive, they are cheap enough and large enough that you can store multiple images on them (as well as putting pics, videos, and music on so these files are not taking up space on your internal drive). I like to keep 3 months worth of images (thats 3 full images rather than incremental images). I am not sure you will find an external drive in the $50 price range but then I am in Canada so in the US you may be able to do so. I am using the free version of Paragon and it works just fine so you might consider putting the $ you were thinking of spending on the backup program towards the drive.

    Not that I am aware of but since I do a monthly uninstal in order to (among other things) do the Paragon image thats when I do the defrag so the command line process is not something I have tried.

    REMEMBER WHAT JO-ANN SAID run Update Baseline (not Reset Baseline) this is most important if you are creating a new baseline.
     
  11. napoleon1815

    napoleon1815 Registered Member

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    Can you store Rollback RX snapshot on an external drive? How about a second internal drive installed in the same system? I'd like to save my snaps anywhere but the drive they are being snapped from. Thanks!
     
  12. Scott W

    Scott W Registered Member

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    Hi napoleon,

    RB stores its snapshots on the system volume. There is no option for changing the location. Nor does RB provide an option for backing-up its snapshots to another disk partition/drive. However, RB's snapshots can be saved to either another internal or external disk drive via disk-imaging. Many of us RB users do that. ;)

    Does that answer your questions?

    Scott
     
  13. napoleon1815

    napoleon1815 Registered Member

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    Yes, it does...thanks! So is the amount of space on the system volume it takes fixed (or grow dynamically?) or can it be manually adjusted?
     
  14. Jo Ann

    Jo Ann Registered Member

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    Hello Scott,

    While I agree with just about everything you say, to be correct RB stores its snapshots on the boot volume and not (necessarily) the system volume. The system volume contains the files used to boot Windows, while the boot volume is the one that contains the system files (and the RB snapshots). It's kind of confusing actually. ;)

    Happy new year!

    JA
     
  15. Scott W

    Scott W Registered Member

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    Jo Ann, thanks for catching my mistake - of course you are right and I stand corrected.


    napoleon, the snapshot's 'allocated' disk-space grows dynamically and the snapshots are managed entirely by RB (as neither Windows or Windows apps can even see them). As far as 'manual adjustment of snapshots' goes, other than RB's baseline any/all snapshots older than the current one can be deleted (automatically or manually). RB also has a snapshot-defrag utility to manage snapshot size and space optimization (this too can be performed automatically or manually).

    Scott
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2012
  16. napoleon1815

    napoleon1815 Registered Member

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    Very helpful...thanks Scott! I bought a license during their holiday sale but haven't installed it yet. Sounds like a great solution for the computer the kids are using. :)
     
  17. bgoodman4

    bgoodman4 Registered Member

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    This is true but I think the only program that can do this reliably is "Image For Windows". There are a few things you need to know about doing this correctly and you can find out all about it here http://horizondatasys-forum.com/rollback-rx/2491-rollback-rx-image-windows-perfect-together.html

    Also, while the space the snapshots use will grow they will not overwhelm a system since they are VERY small. For details on how small check out the info on http://www.rollbacksoftware.com/#hightlightsContent
     
  18. Scott W

    Scott W Registered Member

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    Hi bg,

    You are quite mistaken (or you are relating something out of context). With regard to backing-up and restoring RB snapshots (along with everything else on my system partition) I have found Drive Snapshot to be totally reliable. I speak from personal experience as I have actually restored DS images of my RB-system partition many times and DS has never failed to perform a perfect restore!!!

    As a licensed user of both DS and IFW I have 'no axe to grind' here. I can factually say that DS is every bit as reliable as IFW and fwiw, I happen to prefer DS to IFW for reasons other than reliability.

    Scott
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2012
  19. bgoodman4

    bgoodman4 Registered Member

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    Thats good to know Scott, from reading previous posts on the matter I had the impression that IFW was the only product that was capable of doing this. However, since I was sure that not every product had been tested by those who posted their test results (mainly over on the Horizon Datasys Rx forum - thread linked to in my post above), and then there are the inevitable changes in capability that time brings to various programs via updates and upgrades ------- that I said "I think" to indicate I might be wrong.

    Thanks for the clarification and information, much appreciated.

    Do you find that you need to do anything "special" besides an all sector image with DS? Seems to me that with IFW there are some aspects of the backup that are not so straight forward,,,,,,but my age is catching up to me and my memory has def. suffered somewhat so I may be wrong about this "fact" too.
     
  20. Moreudomoreuget

    Moreudomoreuget Registered Member

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    I did come up with another question before I attempt to do the imaging with Paragon.

    I have heard that some computers have an extra partition that may cause an issue while imaging.

    I have a Lenovo Desktop that came built in with Lenovo's OneKey Recovery.

    I figured this may be on its own partition and did some research.

    Here is a link to my Disk Management (took a picture with my phone, apologies for the haziness)

    http://i.imgur.com/Hy6Z8.jpg

    The description from Lenovo about it seems to contradict with how my computer is set up. For instance, my C: drive is the biggest, I don't see a D: drive for data, just the DVD (D), and I see a system reserved 100mb.

    Does any of this seem like a red flag based on my picture and information?

    Copy and pasted from Lenovo:

     
  21. napoleon1815

    napoleon1815 Registered Member

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    I can attest that while I still prefer IFW/IFL a little more, DS is rock solid and has never failed me either. You can't go wrong with either.
     
  22. Scott W

    Scott W Registered Member

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    Actually, successful use of DS for backing-up and restoring an RB system has been reported several times in this forum by Aaron Here and Jo Ann, and by pvsurfer in the RollBack Rx forum (that you also frequent), so it's not like I'm doing anything inventive here!

    If there's anything unique about IFW (in this matter), it is its abilility to save all RB snaps by creating a raw hot image (this procedure, discovered by TheRollbackFrog, requires certain registry 'organization'). With DS, it is necessary to create a raw cold image in order to save all RB's snaps, but then again, no tweaking (of any kind) is ever required in order to accomplish the backup or restore! ;)

    Scott
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2012
  23. Scott W

    Scott W Registered Member

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    Hmm, what Lenovo says and what they did (in configuring your system) sure does not 'compute'... In any case it appears that you are now using 32GB (out of 906GB) for system and data. If it was my computer, I would repartition that 906GB volume into something like a 46GB system volume, a 400GB data volume and a 460GB internal-backup volume. After that is done, you should move your data off the system volume to folders in the new data volume. You should also set the preferences in all of your apps to save your data-files to their respective folders in the new data volume, That way all of your new data-files will be stored on the new data volume. ;)

    I wouldn't be concerned about the repartitioning somehow disabling Lenovo's OneKey Restore because (from my perspective) that's near-worthless anyway - as it is only capable of restoring your system to its original (shipped) state whereas image-backups can restore your system to its most current state (as of your most recent backup)!

    Do not infer that the internal backup partition I suggested should be your only backup media; as an external drive must also be utilized for storing your backups (in case your internal drive won't start-up for whatever reason)! However, an internal backup partition is quite convenient for those more common occurences where you hard drive is funtional but you just want to recover some past system state.

    Btw, have you installed RB yet?

    Scott
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2012
  24. bgoodman4

    bgoodman4 Registered Member

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    Thanks again,,,, since I don't bother to back up snapshots (I do not see the need) I tend to skip/or skim posts regarding this sort of info. Some years ago I was interested in the topic and at the time folks were talking about IFW as the way to go to do this so thats what I mentioned. I know better now and will, in the future, mention both IFW and DS as reliable solutions as reported by users of both programs.
     
  25. bgoodman4

    bgoodman4 Registered Member

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    You will find that Paragon is very intuitive and VERY straight forward to use. Much simpler than other imaging programs I have tried. When you initialise Paragon it will locate all connected drives and partitions on those drives. You will see this in the image I am attaching. All you need to do is select the drive you want to back up and all the partitions on that drive will be automatically selected as well.
     

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