Rollback RX - P2P Utorrent Problems !

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by Lasse Larsson, Nov 12, 2017.

  1. Lasse Larsson

    Lasse Larsson Registered Member

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    Hello !

    I have searched on the internet but I can't find anything anywhere about rollback RX not working correctly together with Utorrent ot other P2P-programs.

    I am new to Rollback RX home version but I have red alot about the program and I have had it Installed for two days before uninstalling it because og disk space problems - but I really love the program and I really want to get it working. So maybe someone here can help me ?

    I know you should install Windows ( 7 in my case ) and after that install Rollback RX because you want a small Baseline Snapshot to start with. In my case that is not possible right now even if I will do that on my next computer upgrade. Bur right now I have a 500 GB hard drive that is VERY VERY fragmented. 440 GB is filled with a lot of files - I believe around 2.000.000 files in total - and 60 GB is free.

    That is the start scenario. So - to test the system I made one or two snapshot that took up 880 MB and 91 MB. That's fine I thought ! Because I only plan to have maybe 3 in total to be able to revert to the last one if I am hit by a virus or some program get corrupted !

    So - after that I tried to use utorrent and downloaded a file that was around 20 GB - Should be NO problem because I have nearly 60 GB left - But after only download 8 GB Utorrent stops ans say "Torrent error - You are running out of diskspace !" Tried many times but the same result ! In explorer I still had 40 GB left !

    So I did a new test - I started all over with Rollback RX - Uninstalled it and installed it again with my 60 GB free hard disk space. But this time i filled up the computer with a map that was around 5 GB and copied it to diferent locations on the Harddrive - And I could do so until I more or less run out of Diskspace - NO - Absolutely NO problem.

    So - I deleted theese 58 GB of carbage files and expected to get them back - bur no luck - still only 2-3 GB free space on the harddrive. So i red about defragmenting the snapshots and did that and restarted the PC - and all my 60 GB was back (in windows).

    Now to my questions - There are 5 of them and I appreciate ALL kind of trying to help me out here !

    1. Can it be the SPEED from utorrent - Then Utorrent downloads with 7.5 MB/s maybe Rollback RX can't copy with that speed ?

    2. Or can the problems be caused by utorrent downoading a lot of fragmnted files and that caused the disk space on my hard drive to get filled up very very fast ?

    3. The reason for making a baseline snapshot from the start after installing windows - Could you clearly explain the difference in diskspace if you compare making the first baseline snapshot with a fresh windows system - around 15 GB - compared to install it on a heavy fragmented 440 GB disk ?
    How much memory will I "win" in the long run ? And are there other issuses regarding this ?

    4. Is there really no other way to get the free memory back in windows WITHOUT having to restart the computer (after defragmenting the snapshot files) ?

    5. What is the best reasons for actually buying the PRO Version ? It is of course different from person to person - but please tell me Your Ideas regarding that !

    Would really apreciate some thought on thos subjectt !

    If you can answer just one of the questios I am still very grateful !

    Kind Regards Lasse from Sweden !
     
  2. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    See my response on MT
     
  3. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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    Lasse... greetings! Your System starting point is a very bad one, especially if you have an extremely fragmented partition to protect. These snapshot applications work much better with contiguous FREE Space than with super fragmented partitions. My first recommendation would be to defrag that horribly fragmented partition before anything else... and based on its size, it will take a while.

    Also understand a basic fact about snapshot applications, especially ones that use REDIRECT ON WRITE technology like Rollback... even when you use Rollback's DELETE Snapsfot function followed by Rollback's DEFRAG function AND a reBOOT (where all that selected work is really done), the result of freeing up that snapshot used space creates even more defragmentation on your storage device, it's actually worse than Windows itself. Now to your questions...
    uTorrent and its speed has NO AFFECT on Rollback's space issues, none whatsoever. It doesn't download fragmented files, regardless of source... those files are defragmented as they are being transmitted to you. It's not Rollback copying anything during your torrent process, it's only Windows components doing that work... speed will not be a factor. BUT, even though Windows is receiving a defragmented file during the transmission, it's most likely creating a very FRAGMENTED file during its SAVING operations... why, 'cause your System is already heavily fragmented and continuous space is hard to find for the Windows operation.
    The BASELINE snapshot is nothing more than a FileSystem reference as to where all the original DATA lives... a kind of "set aside" to insure that all that baseline DATA does not get touched as you move forward with your System. Nothing is gained in the long run other than a massive System cleanup from your current System and maybe some rethink on configuration based on what you learn here.
    No, not at all, and it's the same for deleting snaps within Rollback. As I mentioned above, the space you are freeing up will be extremely fragmented as well. Also be aware that Rollback, under certain circumstances (HDS Developers don't even know what those circumstances are) the space you are trying to free up doesn't even get freed up. This problem has existed for many versions and when it happens, users wind up losing almost all their disk space, eventually requiring the unInstall (or deActivation under v10.7) of Rollback entirely (causing the loss of all your snapshots except for the CURRENT SYSTEM CONFIGURATION).
    The reasons vary with users but the main reason is to allow the creation of unlimited snapshots and some additional advanced scheduling functions. If you don't plan to try and keep a long timeline of snapshots for your System, the PRO version really isn't necessary.

    An issue with the FREE version that came to light recently is that it produces a snapshot at every reBOOT of your System and you cannot turn that off (you can with the pro version). Some users find that these snapshots are quite large, which probably aggrevate your Systems space mgmt even more.
    You have them above... :)

    But I can't emphasize enough, your System is at a very bad starting point for the use of Rollback RX... it is very "dirty" as far as System operation is concerned and is very Full. Both of these issues need to be addressed before you attempt to become a serious user of Rollback. If possible, I would consider (not knowing your System configuration) the off loading of your personal DATA (music, videos, gaming apps, specific application DATA to another internal physical disk (if a workstation). This would free up lots of space on your Windows partition allowing you to defrag for cleanup purposes and allow for a smooth operation of Rollback. If not a workstation, your laptop's single disk should be made bigger, multi-partitioned, and all that "DATA" should be moved to the separate, unprotected partition. You shouldn't rely on Rollback to protect your System against hardware failure... it will not. You'll need additional (probably off-line) protection for your DATA (imaging, file replication, etc). Putting Rollback on a System whose entire Windows configuration AND DATA are located in the same disk partition is considered dangerous, IMHO. You really need to rethink your current System configuration if you want Rollback to help you.

    Some of the above may not be clear... if not, feel free to ask questions to clarify.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2017
  4. Lasse Larsson

    Lasse Larsson Registered Member

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    Hello RollbackFrog !

    First of all - Thank you very very much for your long answers ! Really apreciate it !

    And secondly - I have Cold Imaging backups and take one every month because i consider full cold backups with the important data an absolutely must.
    With this strongly fragmented disk the cold backup (500 GB) takes around 14 hours to complete.

    I work a lot with music on my spare time - and sometimes we are 3 people working together recording a song and I travel a long way to meet theese people,
    so if I am hit by a virus or something goes very wrong it is very tempting to be able to use Rollback RX to get the computer back in shape in some minutes to save
    maybe 3 days of recording time. I understabd that if the computers internal harddrive fails I am out of luck - but it many situations this program should be a
    "lifesaver".

    I guess regarding to reading all your answers and questions to the people making this program, that you yourself think that the purpose and the idea with
    this program is absolutely great - but that it is really sad that the program generates all theese problems.......and that the makers of this program have some
    problems being honest telling the users the whole picture....I remember your discusion with a guy called Mike I believe - He refused to give an honest and
    straight answer to you and some days later he was not working with the company anymoore...

    So after reading your answers here I come up with some more questions - I guess much shorter and easier to answer hopefully !


    1. About the pro version - I am not planing to do a lot of snapshots - but if the program itself take a snapshot at every reboot - that could be 3 times a day 365
    days a year - thats around 1100 snapshots in a year - and you say that every snapshot fragments the harddrive more and more - I guess that would be a
    very good reason for buying the pro version ? And also the "deactivation" in Pro version 10.7. instead of having to uninstall and install the program if you want
    to defragment the disk ?

    2. I fully understand what you say about becoming a serious rollback RX user - I have to start all over with a new system that has a fresh installation with Windows and
    after that avoid a lot of crap and loads of tiny and small files. Also deactivate the program( if having the pro version) maybe once a month and defragment the disk at
    that time. And not filling up the harddrive to much, maybe leave 30% free harddrive space. Is all of this correct ?

    3. Because I "work" a lot with music and filmmaking I am planing to finally use a SSD (I know - some years to late...) because of the speed advantages rendering
    movie clips and making music tracks with many tacks. I have red a lot regarding SSD and the TRIM function - Would you totaly advice against using a SSD
    together with rollback RX ? And if using a SSD - What is the most important things to hink about ?

    4. It seems like a absolutely must to defragment the harddrive after some time (every now and then) if you want to use Rollback RX withour running out of diskapce ?

    5. Today - With everything you know about this program - And I guess you are the one in the whole world who knows the most from a customer viev,
    would you start using Rollback RX ? And are you actually using it ? Or would you wait and hope that they will solve the problems ?

    6. Is there any alternatives program to Rollback RX if you want more or less the same posibilities that you know of ? Without theese disk space problems ?

    7. Can you say that most backup program that can do a sector by sector cold backup will work so it preserves Rollback RX in the correct way ? If not - Do you know
    if Paragon Free works this way ? Or do you know any good backup program that most people use together with Rollback RX ?

    8. What Defragment program do you recomend consideing speed and ease of use ?

    I have a Asus laptop with 8 GB Ram. An internal harddrive with 500 GB space. But I will soon change to a Laptop with 2 Harddrives . One SSD and one 1 TB "normal" Drive.
    Sorry regarding my bad english and bad spelling - But I hope you understand most of it !

    Thanks again for taking your time to help a frustrated - but hopeful - new Rollback RX user !

    Kind Regards Lasse from Sweden !
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2017
  5. pandlouk

    pandlouk Registered Member

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    @Lasse Larsson
    The space problem that you encountered will be the least with RBrx if something goes wrong.
    If you want to be a "serious" Rollback RX user you should always keep a copy of your important data on another disk or even better never store important data on the RBRx protected disk. If something goes wrong no recovery software and no horizondatasys support will help you recover it.

    Panagiotis
     
  6. Lasse Larsson

    Lasse Larsson Registered Member

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    Sweden
    Hello Pandlouk !

    You are absolutely right and I am - And will always have a True Cold Backup copy for my important data.
    After everything I have red about Rollback RX I understand that it i a wonderful program but that
    it has massive drawbacks so I understand you can'r trust Rollvack RX only - You have to also use other
    Solutions !

    Kind Regards Lasse from Sweden
     
  7. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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    You are very welcome!
    The concept of Rollback is fantastic, the implementation is extremely questionable... I'll leave it at that.
    The uncontrolled snapshot at BOOT time can be eliminated through deletion and derfagmentation within Rollback. If you're willing to give up your snapshots occasionally, deActivate Rollback and reBOOT, you can clean all that crap up with some System periodic maintenance (defrags, optimazation for SSDs in Win8/10 <SSDtool in Win7>).
    That's how you'll get the best performance and least amount of problems.
    Use an SSD as much as you wish, just periodically maintain it (Rollback off, reBOOTed, and optimized with Win8x/Win10 or use the SSDtool with Win7) using a consistent interval to keep it clean and running efficiently. The "optimization" will get it back on track for efficiency.
    You got it... :)
    I no longer use Rollback, and no, I can't wait for solutions. This stuff has been going on since the earliest versions with no real solutions in sight (many years).

    Since I needed to protect my hardware anyway, I use an imaging solution for that. With the introduction of INCREMENTAL RESTORATIONS (my term), I now use Macrium Reflect for my snapshotting capability. Reflect was the first RELIABLE application (AX64 LLC had "Time Machine" headed in that direction but it all fell apart along the way) capable of that type of image restoration. Using that capability, a user only had to restore the disk surface differences between where his FileSystem was at the time of restoration and where is was at the restoration time point. This turned out to be way faster than the typical restoration (which had to restore everything at the time point headed for). Since then the product has introduced a tracking mechanism (CBT - Continuous Block Tracking) for disk surface changes which makes both the imaging and restoration process even faster. Using this capability with an SSD and a reasonably fast processor, the "snapshot restoration" time is only slightly slower than Rollback... a time I can easily wait for. Why? Cause I now have both a snapshot and scheduled imaging application that completely protects my System. Since then, "Image For Windows" (IFW), a product from Terabyte Unlimited, has adopted similar INCREMENTAL IMAGING techniques as well as a tracking mechanism. It appears to work as well as Macrium Reflect, although some users feel it is a bit more cryptic in its UI to use.
    See answer to #5 above.
    Any imaging solution that can do a ALL SECTOR/SECTOR-BY-SECTOR/FORENSIC image should be capable of doing what you ask. Some may question the structure of your MBR when imaging... these may be questionable as the Rollback MBR is tampered with extremely by Rollback.
    A question better answered in a different thread (lots of users, lots of opinions). I, personally use "MyDefrag".. a freebie more than adequate to do the job.
    This would be a great time to re-organize your System, if possible... OS + Programs on that SSD, and all your DATA on the HDD. Utilize some sort of DATA backup on that HDD (imaging, file replication, synching, etc) to protect your DATA.
    Your ENGLISH is just fine...
     
  8. bgoodman4

    bgoodman4 Registered Member

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    Just to give you an idea of Macrium Reflects time to restore,,,, I too have a 500 gig hard drive on my laptop but with just over 240 gigs used (unlike you) but it takes under 3 min to do a full restore of my drive. So, if we extrapolate to your set up it would take less than 6 minutes to recover your system with MR,,,,,,,less if not much changes between differential (or incremental) images. I can't imagine that much is changing in general terms with your 450 gigs of data,,,,,not unless you do do a derfag which from the sound of it would make a great many changes..

    FYI, its a good rule of thumb to keep at least 25% of your hard drive with free room, you are asking for problems with the % you have now.

    Also, my 2 cents worth,,,,,,,,as a former Rollback Rx user I would recommend you stay away from it. Its great when it works but death when it fails. At a minimum, if you decide to use Rx be sure to read Froggies sticky thread at the top of this forum on the pitfalls of Rx and how to mitigate them. For what its worth, Macrium is a much simpler and vastly safer solution.

    PS: I am using MR Pro
     
  9. Lasse Larsson

    Lasse Larsson Registered Member

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    TheRollbackFrog and bgodman4 :

    Thanks alot for your advices ! I have been thinking and even if it is so tempting I have
    decided not to use Rollback RX and I will use MR !

    If a program really is good there is no way on earth that the program recieves so much complains,
    and you are experts on this - and you still decided not to use it. So I trust you ! Thanks !


    But now I have a big problem - after uninstalling Riollback RX My computer still say that there is no more space - And still I
    absolutely have 78 GB left - I believe that it is still Rollbck RX tha give me the problem. What advice can you give me to
    get my 78 GB free space back ?

    Kind Regards Lasse from Sweden !
     
  10. bgoodman4

    bgoodman4 Registered Member

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    I was expecting Froggie to make some suggestions but I see he has not so here goes.

    My first suggestion would be to restore an image from before Rx was installed. I think this should work but am not certain since Rx locks what Windows thinks is empty space.

    The 2nd suggestion is to image the drive as is and then swap out to a larger drive and then restore to the larger drive. Then partition the drive (since I expect you will get a bunch of unallocated space) and then forget about the lost space. This last I think will work.

    Good luck and maybe my suggestions will spark some others.