Rollback rx- new users has some questions...

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by chrome_sturmen, Oct 28, 2006.

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  1. chrome_sturmen

    chrome_sturmen Registered Member

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    Ok, i'm hoping to hear from some knowledgeable people on this. I had my windows xp partition setup perfectly, until i tried deepfreeze on it, and couldnt get it uninstalled, so in the process of trying to uninstall deepfreeze, i rendered my xp unbootable, and had to restore from an acronis image i'd made one month earlier,which included downloads of xp updates from windows update. still, i lost a month of changes here and there- all because i didnt feel like taking a fresh acronis image before trying deepfreeze, i figured everything would be ok, and the acronis imagine takes so long- but like i said it wasnt, and so here i am. if id had rollback installed and just took a quick snapshot before trying deepfreeze, i wouldnt be catching up a months worth of changes now.

    i tried deepfreeze like i said- it screwed me up. i tried shadowuser-it also screwed me up. i downloaded first defense, and when installing, it said "firstdefense requires that the windows volume be the boot volume" so i couldnt use it- i keep a 500mb c: partition just for boot files, and windows xp on e: server 2003 on f:
    rollback rx installed just fine however, so maybe id better learn to use it, if i want a helper application to compliment arconis trueimage.


    ok, so let me get to my questions: like id said, im catching up a month of changes, so this may be an interesting time to learn the use of rollback.
    i have made 3 snapshots with rollback: baseline, updates, and shadow. as i understand, the baseline is the true state of the xp partition.the updates snapshot, i will boot into when i am updating files that i eventually want in the baseline configuration. shadow, i will use when i want a break from catching up xp, just to surf and not care what happens. am i right with this line of thinking?

    now then, say i have made enough changes in the updates snapshot, and i am ready to apply these to the baseline config- so i'd choose "update baseline" right? now, i read that when you update the baseline, it merges all snapshots into that baseline- so when updating, possibly undesirable changes from the throwaway "shadow" snapshot would wind up in the baseline config- so i assume that before updating the baseline, you need to delete any expendable snapshots, so they dont get merged into your true system partition??

    and when i am reaqdy to make a full partition backup with acronis, are there any issues with rollback, of can i image normally?

    i dont know if im approaching this the right way, thats why ive come to ask for input- any advice is appreciated.
     
  2. chrome_sturmen

    chrome_sturmen Registered Member

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    maybe im wrong in my way of approaching this- this is a bit of an odd software-ive not seen anything quite like it- but one things for sure- its not good to rely just on imaging software like acronis- you need a middleman like rollback, to compliment it- imaging and snapshot software together make a very solid restoration config, i think. again, when i choose update baseline it says "all snapshot histories will be consolidated into the new baseline" this makes me think any info in any snapshots will be merged into my true xp partition- something possibly bad. maybe itll take awhile to understand this program
     
  3. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

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    I have wondered that too, and I gave it a try because I wanted to know.

    This is what I know:
    You have Baseline, Updates and Shadow.
    When you work in Updates and decide to perform an Update Baseline, what happens is that Baseline will become identical to Updates and the snapshot Shadow will be deleted. The final sitation is that you end with Baseline (former Updates) and nothing more.
    No need to delete snapshots yourself.

    This is what I usually do: When I want to update my snapshot and still maintain the structure I take a new snapshot with the same name as the parent: Updates. Then I delete the parent Updates and perform a Snapshot Defragment.
    When you want to apply the Microsoft hotfixes, you need to repeat this procedure with the Shadow snapshot.
    Only problem is that Baseline never gets updates. :thumbd:

    Make sure that you apply my suggested procedure only to the latest and current build, older builds have a serious and fatal bug that is provoked by this procedure.
    See: https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=851770&postcount=1

    Please, feel welcome with questions.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2006
  4. chrome_sturmen

    chrome_sturmen Registered Member

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    wilbertnl- there was a sweet spot of about two years, that i had a healthy dual boot partition- windows xp for its good compatibility, and windows server 2003, for its rock solidness. i could comfortably boot into either, make some beneficial changes, image with acronis, and all was well. i had everything id want set up on both, and if 1 had a minor problem, i could boot into the other and check the problemaatic volume for errors. i recntly replaced my motherboard, i wanted one with onboard sata ports rather than the add in pci sata controller-which turned out to be a good thing. neither xp nor server2k3 would boot- so i did a repair install of xp, which was fine, but 2k3 didnt take it. so whereas i had before a great dual boot, now i feel handicapped with no server 2003,- though the xp partition should be up to speed in a few days. id begun setting up windows 2003, but i tried shadow server on it and it messed it up, not even a repair install would fix it- 2 days lost work- it seems everyone talks here, but not much about the lonely hours trying to build up a system into what it could be/once was
     
  5. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

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    Whenever I modify the hardware setup of my system, I prefer a fresh reinstall of Windows and I go from there.
    Sometimes it's nice to build a new setup and follow different ideas. ;)
    And yes, disk images before the evaluation of new software...
     
  6. chrome_sturmen

    chrome_sturmen Registered Member

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    so snapshot "b" would be merged into the baseline, and other snapshots disregarded then?
     
  7. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Is it "merge" or just making them "equal" ? In the very beginning I made that mistake too with FDISR. You can't merge snapshots in FDISR, you just create two equal snapshots with FDISR.
     
  8. chrome_sturmen

    chrome_sturmen Registered Member

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    ok, say i have the baseline- then i make snapshot "A" wherein i write a new text document to myself telling myself how dumb i am for not learning linux, and leave it on the desktop. i make snapshot "B" and erase that document. then from "b" i update the baseline- so snapshot "a" will be disregarded, only changes made in "b" will be committed to the true operating system? so i'd wind up with a baseline with no document on the desktop, right?
     
  9. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Your baseline snapshot contains softwares A + B + C and another snapshot contains D + E + F.
    When you update your baseline snapshot, your baseline snapshot contains A + B + C + D + E + F.
    Is that correct ?
     
  10. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    That is indeed a merge. In FDISR your primary snapshot would contain softwares D + E + F and A + B + C would be gone.

    Your baseline snapshot contains softwares A + B + C and another snapshot contains B + C + D.
    After updating your baseline snapshot, it contains A + B + C + D ?
    Are the double softwares B + C in both snapshots not a problem ?
     
  11. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Well my last question isn't answered yet. :)
     
  12. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Sorry I don't understand. I'm not in "F". F = software F, not snapshot "F"
     
  13. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    That's the answer on my first question, not the second one.
    If RollbackRx is able to merge, what will it do if I merge the same software for the second time ?
     
  14. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    OK I will work with snapshot names and real software names.

    Test #1

    Snapshot-A (baseline) contains two softwares : CCleaner and TweakUI.
    Snapshot-B contains also two softwares : Firefox and Thunderbird.
    I update Snapshot-A, so snapshot-A will contain CCleaner + TweakUI + Firefox + Thunderbird.
    That's what you said and this is indeed a MERGE. (FDISR can NOT do this)

    Test #2

    Snapshot-A (baseline) contains two softwares : CCleaner and TweakUI.
    Snapshot-B contains also two softwares : CCleaner and Firefox
    I update Snapshot-A, so snapshot-A will contain CCleaner + TweakUI + Firefox.

    CCleaner however is in Snapshot-A and Snapshot-B, isn't that a problem during the merge ?
     
  15. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    I got it. I knew there was a big difference between FDISR and RollbackRx.
    That's why I can't use RB, because of the baseline snapshot.
    Thanks for the explanation. :cool: :)
     
  16. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

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    When Baseline contains A+B+C and you install D+E+F, whereafter you take a snapshot named [DEF], then baseline will contain as mentioned A+B+C and snapshot [DEF] will contain A+B+C+D+E+F, since it is a derivate of Baseline.
    When you update Baseline from DEF it will become identical to snapshot [DEF].
    Since [DEF] is a derivate from Baseline with some additional software, it's snaphot size is equal to the installation size of D+E+F. Sometimes only a few MB's.

    Here is my current structure:

    http://www.geocities.com/wilbertnl/images/eazTree.png

    And now look at the snapshot sizes of this structure:

    http://www.geocities.com/wilbertnl/images/eazSize.png

    Now mind you, each snapshot is fully functional, even if the size shows 1 MB. It inherits all the applications and settings from the parent snapshot.

    When I work in ms-Money 2004 and decide to update Baseline, then the Baseline will contain the following applications:
    Whatever is in Baseline itself, whatever is in Utilities, whatever is in ViGUARD 12, whatever is in softmake-Office 2006 and whatever is in ms-MOney 2004.
    The snapshots Opera 9.02 and powerDVD 5 will be lost.

    Fascinating, isn't it?

    Now I can easily restore to snapshot ms-Money 2004 and install Firefox 2.0, when I take another snapshot from that it will live aside from opera 9.02.

    Here is an older structure that I used to debug eazFix, it shows what I mean.:

    http://www.geocities.com/wilbertnl/eazclone/defect.png
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2006
  17. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    I got it too. I'm just asking these questions to find out the differences.
    Each time I asked directly for these differences, they answer me RB is faster and requires less space. Now I have a better idea and now I know for sure, that RB is not the right rollback software for me. Thanks again.
     
  18. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

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    I did edit my message, please look at the included pictures.

    That is quite allright, ErikAlbert.
    I think that the concept of EF/RB is closer to what I need for beta-tests/software evaluations. When I'm finished with a test all I have to do is delete the test snapshot.
    I'm very pleased with this software and look forward to improvements in the next major release.
     
  19. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Windows is installed in the baseline snapshot.
    Can I have different settings in Windows in other snapshots ?
     
  20. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

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    My baseline is just an OEM: Windows, drivers and MS hotfixes. It's not possible to install a different Windows release (Windows 2000) in another (empty) snapshot, but each snapshot has it's own settings. In different snapshots you can have different user accounts, as long as they are derivates from OEM.

    Yes, you can have a silent offline snapshot, and another overprotected warezbrowser snapshot. Or a games optimized snapshot.
     
  21. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    So I'm able to create an off-line snapshot, where internet-connection is disabled in Windows
    And an on-line snapshot, where internet-connection is enabled in Windows.
    And an on-line snapshot where Firefox has poor security settings.
    And an on-line snapshot where Firefox has strong security settings.
     
  22. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

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    Exactly, and all these different snapshots take probably a few MB's space. And they are frozen forever. When you want to save a modification you just take another snapshot and delete obsolete snapshots.
     
  23. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Sounds better than I thought, but that isn't everything of course.
    I need archived snapshots also, which are still missing.
    I need an image backup that works with RB and restores everything.
    Both softwares have to like my total system.
    So I can start all over again. A bit too late for me.
    At least I know I can use it as a possible alternative.
     
  24. chrome_sturmen

    chrome_sturmen Registered Member

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    well, last night after i began this thread, i uninstalled rollback to test some other stuff, and now it wont reinstall- so i cant use it even if i wanted to. now when i tried to install first defense isr, it said "the boot volume must be the windows volume" and mine isnt- i keep a small c: partition just for the boot record. so then, i copied all the boot files from c: over to windows xp, changed xp partition to primary, and set it as the active partition- then i could install first defense isr. one thing that bothers me about rollback rx, is that i cant keep an environment if i want to update the true system. i might make a "work" snapshot, and delete everything but office- but if i want to update the true xp, that "work" snapshot will dissapear. if i could preserve certain snapshots while updating the baseline, it would be much more handy, i think. but then, what do i know?
     
  25. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

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    I'm glad that you are establishing a better idea of EF/RB, and agreed: all solutions have advantages/disadvantages.
    Well, I know some users who update baseline every week. But I would not do that and just update the derivates. Take a new snapshot and delete the obsolete one.
     
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