Rollback RX and WinRE on hard disk

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by Crular, Jun 26, 2012.

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  1. Crular

    Crular Registered Member

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    I am trying to set up a recovery partition using a WinRE.wim image. Without Rollback installed it is possible to boot this image by pressing F8 after bios POST and selecting "repair computer".

    However, when Rollback is installed that is no longer possible and comes up with an error, probably due to Rollback changing the MBR.

    So, could anyone tell me, if the setup I want is possible with Rollback RX installed?
     
  2. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    If you repair your computer in Windows Recovery Environment, you will break Rollback Rx and its boot recovery console.

    Wonder why you want to do this with Rollback Rx installed?
     
  3. Crular

    Crular Registered Member

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    No, the intention is to boot the WinRE.wim image on the other partition. This is called by using the aforementioned option in the F8 menu.
     
  4. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    You then need a software called, "BootIt® Bare Metal":

    http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/index.htm

    BTW, I am still confused. Is the partition you want to repair is being protected by Rollback Rx.

    Best regards,
     
  5. Crular

    Crular Registered Member

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    I have two partitions:
    C - Windows 7 with Rollback Rx
    Z - Recovery partition, id 0x27 containing a customized WinRE.wim image containing Image for Windows and I am planning to add more things to it

    Plainly put it should serve as some kind of BartPE replacement without having to use a dvd or usb stick. For restoring a backup image for example. Yes, I know about the difficulties of image backups in conjunction with Rollback.

    I don't know yet, if my intentions are wise, it is just some kind of hobby project.

    So, it would be only possible by using BootIt BM? Any freeware alternative?
     
  6. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    The answer to your problem is very simple. Download EasyBCD and WAIK. Build all the Boot.win you want to build for your imaging programs, And, then add all your Boot.win also your WinRE.win as your bootmenu after the Rollback Rx is loaded.

    Best regards,

    P. S. I will post an image for you.
     
  7. Crular

    Crular Registered Member

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    Thanks for your help :)

    As far as I understand does Rollback Rx sit in the MBR. How or by what is a boot manager after Rollback Rx started?
     
  8. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    Here is the image!

    BTW, both the EasyBCD and WAIK are free, though WAIK is 1.7GB download.

    Best regards,
     

    Attached Files:

  9. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    See the image. On boot after the Rollback Rx console, you will get a bootmenu. Mine is set to boot into Win7 x64 automatically after 3 seconds. Before 3 seconds, I can boot into anything on the image including the Win7.

    Best regards,
     
  10. Crular

    Crular Registered Member

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    Ok, so installing EasyBCD won't overwrite the Rollback Rx console? Sorry, maybe a stupid question, but my hardcore computer tech times were in the 80s, so a little bit rusty :D
     
  11. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    LOL! :)

    No, it won't override your Rollback Rx console.

    After you install EasyBCD, then you have to install your Boot.win and WinRE.win in EasyBCD.

    However, if you ever use your Windows Recovery from Bootmenu or F8, it will override your Rollback Rx console. But booting into your imaging programs at bootmenu it won't.

    If I have Rollback Rx installed, then I will not make a COLD image, I will always make a HOT image. But I will have my bootmenu available so that I can boot into it and restore my image.

    Best regards,
     
  12. Crular

    Crular Registered Member

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    Ah, ok. And EasyBCD is the freeware alternative to BootIt BM? So, I could also use BootIt BM to achieve the same?

    When you do your backup images while running under Windows and Rollback Rx, do you make a raw one including all snapshots or only the actual snapshot?
     
  13. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    EasyBCD creates entry into the BCD Store for the bootmenu. Where is BIBM is a partition manager and a bootmenu for different operating systems. Each operating system is hidden from the other operating system.

    Here it is without re-inventing the wheel. If you have Rollback Rx installed and you want to image then:

    COLD Regular Imaging: With any imaging software, you will capture only the baseline snapshot.

    COLD Sector to Sector RAW Imaging: With any imaging software, you will capture the baseline snapshot and all the other snapshots.

    HOT Regular Imaging: With any imaging software, you will capture the current snapshot.

    HOT Sector to Sector RAW Imaging: Only with TeraByte IWF imaging software, you will capture the baseline snapshot and all the other snapshots.

    http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/index.htm


    Best regards,
     
  14. Flexigav

    Flexigav Registered Member

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    Very interesting topic. Am I to assume all the programs listed in your EasyBCD Boot console are there because they have modified the MBR to boot up? Would this not cause a boot problem if more than one of these applications were installed together on the one physical drive without a boot manager, or can BIOS determine priority somehow?
     
  15. Flexigav

    Flexigav Registered Member

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    I gather from this that both Rollback RX and EasyBCD hijack any request to boot the Windows OS, add their own code and ultimately boot the Windows OS! Would I be correct in assuming the BIOS boot program starts at the first line of MBR boot code so it would make a difference which way around two boot managers are installed as to which runs first?

    In this case Rollback RX is installed first, so EasyBCD adds it's boot code after Rollback's to boot the other programs under its' management in that order (Rollback first in this case)? Installing them the other way round just might have Rollback RX running in a virtual environment, that is pointless unless you are just testing it and prepared to alter the MBR later! Am I close to the mark here?

    I'm just getting the hang of things here and now EFI or UEFI and GPS are threatening a whole new world of changes in the next couple of years! lol the education never stops!
     
  16. Flexigav

    Flexigav Registered Member

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    One alternative would be to have each on separate physical hard disks, each with it own operating system and boot using the F12 key or what ever your BIOS uses to allow you to choose which one you want to boot from before any other program like the Rollback RX boot process is initiated (If installed on that drive, otherwise it will not be known)!
     
  17. Jim1cor13

    Jim1cor13 Registered Member

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    great stuff aladdin :) I too have been using EasyBCD and created both a flash drive with various tools, etc., and I also use EasyBCD to boot directly into my IFL.iso that I have on a recovery partition. I nthis manner I do not need any boot cd/flash drive and I get the IFL boot menu along with Win7, and I choose IFL when I want to image or restore and it works perfectly. I have EasyBCD load IFL.iso into memory, either from the bootable flash or running it from the hard disk. Works great. There are some ISO's that have trouble booting properly, such as some Linux based tools, which may require placing some of the actual tool folders on the flash drive to boot properly,m but overall that is an exception. Generally I set the ISO to boot and load from memory and it just works.

    EasyBCD is truly a work of art in being able to actually boot from ISO, WIM, etc. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge about how useful EasyBCD can be. Makes using boot up tools so much easier. :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2012
  18. Flexigav

    Flexigav Registered Member

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    Did you install EasyBCD under your operating system first to enable you to set it up and then create a bootable flash drive via either EastBCD (if it has that option), or Terabytes IFL program?

    I take it putting the IFL.iso on the recovery partition instead of a CD/DVD and then adding this to the EasyBCD boot selection so it can find it and initiate it at bootup did the trick! This is great stuff :thumb: ...until EFI moves in to the PC market over the next few years, but in computing terms that's a life-time away!
     
  19. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    Dear Flexigav,

    All the imaging programs including the EasyBCD are installed in Windows. However, if you want any imaging programs to be available to you at boot, then you can use EasyBCD to modify the Boot Store and not the MBR and have them available to you on boot.

    You can create bootable flashdisk of any imaging programs with:
    1. Yumi : http://www.pendrivelinux.com/
    2. xBoot : http://www.pendrivelinux.com/
    3. EasyBCD

    I have all my imaging programs available to me on boot and also as bootable flash. The bootable flash is in case if my hard drive fails to boot.

    Best regards,
     
  20. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    Dear Jim1cor13,

    You are most welcome.

    Another good program for Boot Store is:

    Visual BCD Editor : http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/System-Miscellaneous/Visual-BCD.shtml

    Best regards,
     
  21. Flexigav

    Flexigav Registered Member

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    Thanks aladdin for all the info. I noticed that Rollback RX brings up its' console at bootup before Windows starts so you can choose which system session snapshot you want to start at. I assume it does this by loading its' own boot manager into the MBR. I also assume all boot managers do this as well, so that the MBR is custom modified. My next assumption is the BIOS boot program will run the first one that was loaded into the MBR. In this case Rollback RX first. Easy BCD will then intercept Rollback's call to start Windows, add its' own modifications then call Windows to start. If this is close to the mark, then perhaps you could just install Easy BCD then add Rollback RX in under the Easy BCD management. In that way if Rollback RX becomes corrupt you can bypass it to boot Windows and fix Rollback RX, as I believe Rollback RX needs Windows to be running to install, or reinstall it!

    I would experiment with this, but the system I want to run it on is Windows 7 64 bit, where as my test and experiment system is Win XP 32 bit and that complicates things even further, so I can not rely on the results!
     
  22. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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    In addition to Aladdin's note above...

    The TeraByte IFW product will only do the above successfully if IFW is installed on your system AFTER Rollback RX. If installed before Rollback is installed (or re-installed), you WILL NOT get a complete full sector RAW image when using the above HOT method.

    This has to do with the ordering of special software drivers during the installation processes of each of those applications.
     
  23. Flexigav

    Flexigav Registered Member

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    Thanks TheRollbackFrog, this is very valuable information. Rollback RX is a sound proposition, but I fear if it became corrupted that Windows would no longer boot. So even though all the Rollback snapshots are still in place you have no way of initiating any of them if the Rollback program itself is corrupted. One solution is to do a raw image backup, but I suspect it would have to include the MBR as there is a possibility Rollback RX modifies it—not too sure! A full disk image rather than a partition image should cover this, or a partition image with the option to include the physical disk MBR. If Rollback RX does not modify the MBR, then there will be no problems in only backing up the partition as a raw disk image—assuming the Rollback RX snapshots are located on the same partition!

    Of course a bootable Rollback RX repair disk would be an alternative...Is there such a thing, or provision to make one before any such corruption occurs? This would save all the problems involved in disk image backup and restoration where Rollback RX is involved!!! As stated earlier, this could even be done under EasyBCD management at bootup using a Rollback RX.iso installed on another partition...food for thought, but more info on Rollback RX is required!
     
  24. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    Dear Flexigav,

    The Rollback Rx console appears first and then the Windows bootmenu. Basically, Rollback Rx sits on top on Windows.

    EasyBCD adds entries to the Windows bootmenu, which can be done by a text editor too. Another program which adds entries to Windows bootmenu is Visual BCD Editor. Once these entries are added then EasyBCD is no longer required.

    In Windows XP, the entries are added to boot.ini and in Windows Vista/7 the entries are added to the BCD Store. I believe Windows Vista/7 doesn't have boot.ini

    I used to edit the boot.ini in Windows XP with a simple text editor.

    Best regards,
     
  25. Jim1cor13

    Jim1cor13 Registered Member

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    Hi Flexigav :)

    Sorry for the late reply. Yes, I installed EasyBCD first in Win 7. Then formatted an 8GB flash drive because at first, EasyBCD did not recognize the flash drive letter until after I formatted it from within windows and then I could proceed to load the BCD to the drive, then with flash drive plugged in, I copied all the ISO's onto the flash drive, making sure NO spaces in the name of the ISO files. Then I ran EasyBCD, and installed the Win 7 BCD onto the flash drive. Then with the flash drive BCD loaded, I began to add entries under the ISO tab, naming them as I wished, such as Image for Linux, then under the name box, I chose Load from memory, browsing to the ISO that was directly on the flash drive that was copied to it, then I added the entry and EasyBCD adds the boot config needed to the flash drive for each ISO I had copied to it, in order to be able to boot from the menu, repeating the same step with each ISO that resided on the flash drive. End result is a bootable flash drive, with all the tools I use, IFL, BIBM, Partition Wizard, etc. I am recalling these steps from my memory, but I think I remembered them correctly, but once you get to know your way around EasyBCD, it is easy to add boot items, etc.

    As for the IFL ISO to boot from the hard disk, I had months ago deleted everything from my Dell Recovery partition, in my case drive E. I then copied a bunch of ISO's onto the Recovery partition. I then ran EasyBCD and for example chose IFL.iso, repeating similar steps as above, only this time with the Win 7 BCD loaded from drive C. I then added entry as above, then browsed to E drive and chose the IFL.iso file, and added the entry so that my Win 7 BCD now showed entries for boot: Windows 7 and Image For Linux. SO now when I boot up, I have a boot menu that offers me Win 7 or I can boot directly into Image for Linux. :)

    Makes it really nice and quick running it from the hard disk, and EasyBCD made it quite simple to add this entry to boot into. I could add other ISO files such as I did to my flash drive and boot into them same manner, but for now I just have IFL booting from the recovery partition, and I can boot into it when I choose to create an image, or to do a restore. EasyBCD is one of the most useful tools in order to create multiple boot items and they can be bootable ISO, WIM, etc.

    So yes, it sure did the trick for me my friend. :) Nice to have the ability to add a boot entry directly added from the recovery partition, with of course my flash drive available in case of a windows boot problem, which I would not be able to boot from the menu, I can use the bootable flash drive and access my tools I placed on it. It really is a great way to utilize the bootable tools one needs and consolidate them onto a flash drive, to boot from, and also be able to boot same tools from a partition on the hard disk also for convenience sake.

    I hope that answered your question :) Have a good day.
     
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