Returnil, Am I thick or what?

Discussion in 'sandboxing & virtualization' started by screamer, Oct 27, 2007.

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  1. screamer

    screamer Registered Member

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    I'm in the process of again, trialling Returnil. I'm having the same issue as I had when I first installed it. I can't get it out of Protection Mode. I RTFM several times. When I ckick |Change Protection Mode| the pop-up always shows:
    |Turn Protection Mode On|
    I'm sure it's something simple, but I just don't get it...??

    ...screamer
     

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  2. BlueZannetti

    BlueZannetti Administrator

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    You've used the Session Lock to enter into Protected Mode. This mode is for a session only (hence the name). On a restart, the system will boot outside of the Returnil protected mode. I would presume that this mode is used for periodic entry into protected mode as desired (but mainly to use a system in a non-protected mode)

    To keep in system in protected mode across restarts, restart the system to exit the locked session and instead of invoking Session Lock, select Change Protection Mode and select Turn Protection feature On/OK. The system will prompt for a restart (to immediately enter Protected mode following the restart) and will always be in protected mode until you purposely exit. Naturally, all changes made between each restart will be lost on restart.

    Blue
     
  3. screamer

    screamer Registered Member

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    Blue,

    I didn't use Session Lock, that's the whole problem. The only feature available is Change Protection Mode, (Session Lock is greyed out as in the pic) and then the only option is Turn Protection On.

    I had this same issue when I first installed Returnil last week. After several re-installs, I was able to see |Turn Protection Mode Off| Right now, that option is not available.

    ...screamer
     
  4. BlueZannetti

    BlueZannetti Administrator

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    All I can tell you is that the screenshots are precisely what you will see while in session lock with both windows that are shown. Session Lock is greyed out since it is active. That's also why the message on the main window Protection Mode entry notes "System Protection is currently ON. It will be OFF after you restart your computer" Protection is ON, but it is transient. To make it permanent (until you decide to actively disable it), you have to change the protection mode to ON via the Change Protection Mode selection.
    Perform a couple of restarts and don't do anything in between. I recall one case using the current version where I tried to exit protected mode, it didn't "take", but did on an immediately following second restart. I have no idea why I saw that behavior and that was the only symptom I could find and I don't recall doing anything out of the ordinary.

    Blue
     
  5. BlueZannetti

    BlueZannetti Administrator

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    screamer,

    One other detail - you don't have any other virtualization/similar software installed at the moment, correct? I can see scenarios in which multiple products will interact to yield rather confusing results (a specific example would be Deep Freeze + Returnil, enter Returnil session lock while Deep Freeze is thawed, then go to frozen mode, which would keep you in an active session lock forever while never changing Returnil's Protection mode).

    Blue
     
  6. tradetime

    tradetime Registered Member

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    As Blue says you are in a Session Lock by those screens, reboot your system and the Returnil Icon on your taskbar should be green, showing no protection and take it from there., You cannot get out of protected mode / session lock (same thing) without a reboot. Your screens look perfectly normal, just like mine at the moment.
     
  7. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    Don't know if this makes any difference but your screen shot shows that you are
    protection Volume 2 Is there some reason why C: is volume 2 ?
     
  8. screamer

    screamer Registered Member

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    The "only" time I get a green icon in the sys tray is upon first install. After that... That is after I enter the app and turn protection mode on, I'm stuck in Session Lock. The only way out is Safe Mode and un-install.

    ...screamer
     
  9. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    If you one a one time shot you use session lock. reboot takes you out of it.

    With the icon green right click, to bring up gui, click on change protection mode, select on, and system should reboot. There after protection is on.

    To turn it off, right click red icon, show program, and then change protection. THis time select off, and again need to reboot. THen should be off.

    Pete
     
  10. screamer

    screamer Registered Member

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    After in-install & re-install 4 times (same as last week) the app works OK. When I'm in protected mode and I click |Change Protection Mode| the pop-up screen option is |Turn Protection Off| and visa-versa. Now I gotta hope it works OK, when I set a schedule and use a password.

    @Longview, I noticed that too. I don't know what it means. It's protecting my C: drive...??

    ...screamer
     
  11. tradetime

    tradetime Registered Member

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    Something is clearly wrong, your first box in the screenshot, the main program GUI syas that system protection is on and will be off when you reboot, the second box, I don't know why you have that up, but it is displaying correctly, if you change that setting Returnil will boot into protected mode / session lock
     
  12. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Screamer,
    Are you incidently a FDISR-user ?
     
  13. BlueZannetti

    BlueZannetti Administrator

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    I just want to be sure I understand precisely what you are doing. What's the precise sequence of clicked selections and other steps employed (i.e. immediate or delayed restarts) that you employ when using Returnil? What else is running on this PC? Just wondering since the behavior is either unusual or I don't correctly understand what you're saying.

    Blue
     
  14. screamer

    screamer Registered Member

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    The "only" time I get a green icon in the sys tray is upon first install. After that if I enter the app and turn protection mode on, I'm stuck in Session Lock. The only way out is Safe Mode and un-install.

    The above is history now

    After in-installed & re-installed the app 4 times it works OK. When I'm in protected mode and I click |Change Protection Mode| the pop-up screen option is |Turn Protection Off| and visa-versa. <-- This is correct. Before I was stuck in a protection mode loop.

    This is also history now

    This is all a moot point now. Firefox wouldn't start up since the error says said it was already running. I tried to install Opera and it wouldn't install do to that Z: Drive. I'm in the process of re-installing Windows on this box, for the second time this week. Geez, what you do for your kids.

    ...screamer
     
  15. tradetime

    tradetime Registered Member

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    That's odd, when I'm in protected mode the option is to turn it on, as that popup refers to the state of the system after reboot.
     

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  16. BlueZannetti

    BlueZannetti Administrator

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    It's not odd at all, and it's not just the state on the next restart, but on all restarts until you disable it (hence it's a "mode").

    In the screenshot, you're in a temporary state via Session Lock which is removed by the next restart. If you wish to make the locked state persistant, change the protection mode to turn (persistant) protection on. That's all it means. The language is a little awkward, but it's a difference between states and mode (where mode basically means persistant state).

    Blue
     
  17. tradetime

    tradetime Registered Member

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    Ok yes I am aware that it refers to all restarts, but if you reread his initial posts, the way I understand it he does not want to be in protected mode all the time, he has been trying to get out of protected mode, but could not, his first post with screenshot looks the same as mine, hence he should have been coming out of protection on each reboot.
    Now he seems to have acheived that but his settings say the opposite?
     
  18. BlueZannetti

    BlueZannetti Administrator

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    In general that means there is an unanticipated conflict or a forgotten/neglected control measure is in place and that is preventing the needed changes from being executed to seemlessly exit from the locked state on restart. There are a lot of ways this can happen, hence the question I asked above regarding "What else is running on this PC?"

    Blue
     
  19. munckman

    munckman Registered Member

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    screamer,

    I hope you don't mind but I am including some more puzzle pieces from the other thread.

    Returnil was installed (it appears you have created a virtual partition (VP)).

    Returnil was uninstalled. (Not clear if you selected the option to uninstall the VP).

    The hard drive was RePartitioned.

    Installing another program (possibly Deep Freeze) failed because it found "Invalid Z Partition"


    ------------------
    From your above screen shot Retunil does not recognize a Retunil VP.

    The Protected Partition is Volume 2 - could be do to your repartitioning but mine is volume 1.

    Retunil says - No VP detected on your computer. Another program sees it though. Did you find C:\Returnil\RVSYSTEM.Img ? It may even be on a different partition now? So you should check all partitions.

    It appears Returnil protection is on for "C:"

    The Change Protection Mode screen does not appear to be the correct one if it appears after a reboot.

    -----------------
    I know you mentioned that read the help but (sorry) in Help>Product Support>Trouble Shooting Guide it lists multiple possible solutions that could apply. The one that concerns me the most is "Failed to retrieve the Partition information!" because another programs indicates that the VP is there but according to your screen shot; Returnil does not recognize it. If it is there unmounted it could be taking up a huge amount of space.

    "Note: Mounting and dismounting the Virtual Drive will not alter the content stored in the drive; but unless mounted, you will not be able to access the drive or its contents. Additionally, the drive will not show within your Windows drive menu."


    If you have an unrecognized, unmounted Returnil VD in a newly partitioned hard drive; that can not be good.

    Can you find C:\Returnil\RVSYSTEM.Img ? If you can not please check all partitions.
     
  20. Coldmoon

    Coldmoon Returnil Moderator

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    Hello munckman,
    The virtual Partition is only a file when it is not mounted. Depending on the size you specify at time of install, it can be a very large file. Its status as mounted or dismounted however will have no adverse effects on your system. And you can delete the file (please backup any data you want to save and dismount it first) any time you wish.

    Hello screamer,
    If I understand this correctly, every time you reboot your system it is in Session Lock. Further, you are able to clear this issue after multiple re-installs. This happens regardless of the fact that your protection mode is set for off and the protection scheduler is not activated. Is this summary correct?

    Please try the following and let me know your results if this happens again:

    1) enter safe-mode
    2) Quit the RVS program
    3) Delete the file C:\Returnil\RVSYSTEM.dat
    4) Uninstall RVS
    5) Enter normal Windows and reinstall

    Mike

    Edit: spelling
     
  21. screamer

    screamer Registered Member

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    Correct!

    I re-installed Windows, installed some apps and then re-installed Returnil.
    Now, when I click tray icon, go to GUI: If protection mode is off and I click |Change Protection Mode| the pop-up says |Turn Protection Mode On|
    If protection mode is on and I click |Change Protection Mode| the pop-up says |Turn Protection Mode Off|

    This way everything makes sense to me. If it's off I can turn it on. If it's on, I can turn it off :)

    ...screamer
     
  22. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    That is for me also the only way that makes sense to me. :)
     
  23. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

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    Returnil is sure made a splash and is a welcome one because it's always better to have choices in all these various fields of protection then to be limited by a choice few where even the support of some of them is enemic at best or else they are flat as a pancake when it comes to stability. :doubt:
     
  24. innerpeace

    innerpeace Registered Member

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    If you look in the help file, it's just as confusing. I would like to see more clarification in the help files about turning on and off system protection and Session Lock. There have been many questions lately about what Returnil does and what is Session Lock. It would be of great benefit to Returnil if they made their definitions/explanations more clear. If Returnil is serious about success, then they need help the new users understand what RVS is and how to use it. Not an easy task but one well worth looking into.

    Virtualization apps are new to most of us and it's hard to understand and explain. I personally only use Session Lock and have never messed with the turn protection on/off buttons. I myself had to read that section of the help file many times and for the turn protection on/off, the same pictures showed the same grayed out settings for both o_O. It didn't make sense to me and I thought it was error. Returnil is great, just help the masses understand in easy terms what is does and how to use it. Your very close ;).
     
  25. tradetime

    tradetime Registered Member

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    Ok first up, in case it is any help your screenshot in the first post show scheduling to be active. I realise we have moved on since then of course and you may have corrected that issue.
    The way you have described turning protection on and off is possibly what causes some of your problems depending on how you want to run Returnil.
    I for example want it off until I turn it on, that is, I do not want to boot into protection, therefore I enable session lock by right clicking the icon and selecting it, if you turn protection on in the manner you are describing you are changing the default behavoir of the program to boot into protection.
     
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