Reply from Acronis

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by CliveS, Oct 7, 2005.

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  1. CliveS

    CliveS Registered Member

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    I have just received this informatiom from Acronis regarding my query about V9 pricing policy. The penultimate paragraph is of particular interest: -

     
  2. bobdat

    bobdat Registered Member

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    If anyone at Acronis sent this within the past two weeks it would amount to pure, unadulterated FRAUD.

    Misleading purchasers by misrepresenting the product as the email indicates, is a premeditated fraudulent business practice and is a violation of various federal and state anti-fraud statutes.

    What had appeared to be a bad business policy of fumbling the upgrade to TI9 now appears to be a conspiracy to defraud the public.

    Acronis' apologies are no longer adequate to compensate for this type of apparently reckless and irresponsible corporate attitude towards the marketplace.

    Acronis personnel should no longer be afforded the benefit of the doubt as to one department not knowing what's going on in the other department and therefore this type of email gets sent. This is blatant dishonesty.

    Buyers beware!
     
  3. Paul Siu

    Paul Siu Guest

    I had inquired about this policy recently. When the product was released on the 20th, I was unable to find it in the store or online. People who did not get the news probably purchased TrueImage 8 only to find that they cannot upgrade w/o a fee because they purchased it after the 20th. Acronis apparently stands firm on this terrible policy.

    I suggest people who don't like the policy start complaining to Acronis. With a big enough backlash, Acronis may change their mind. Remember Intuit, they had to take ads out to post their apology about Turbotax.
     
  4. foghorne

    foghorne Registered Member

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    Not sure that means a lot unless you live in the US. Contrary to popular belief not all internet users live in the US ;-)
     
  5. bobdat

    bobdat Registered Member

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    Based on what has happened to us, I have sent the following emails to the executive editors of PC Magazine and PC World.

    "Dear Editor,

    Please assign someone to investigate the fraud that has been perpetrated on your subscribers who have read your favorable reviews of Acronis TrueImage backup software and then bought it. Here's the link to see why Acronis doesn't deserve to share space in the legitimate software developer community:

    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=100745

    This is a tragic example of what appears to be a dishonest corporation defrauding the uninformed buying public.

    Thanks.

    Bob D.
    Subscriber"
     
  6. HomeTurf

    HomeTurf Registered Member

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    "...and according to the information I have at the moment..."

    And there's a KEY quote that you seem to be missing. You are claiming that Acronis is PURPOSELY defrauding their customers. Where's your PROOF?? What if that particular individual did NOT have the correct information at the time they sent the E-mail? What if it was a mistake? Are corporations NOT allowed to make any mistakes whatsoever? If it ever comes to that, then you would NEVER see any software made available. Show me ONE piece of software that is PERFECT on EVERY PC at Version 1 and does EVERYTHING it claims to do on EVREY single system made.

    In my opinion, it seems that you have something against Acronis. If you indeed thought this was fraud, why didn't you contact your state's Attorney General instead of a couple of magazines? All you are attempting to do is try to get Acronis to have a bad name. I stress TRYING as I personally don't believe you would succeed. I, for one, AM happy with Acronis. Does it have problems? Sure? Are they attempting to fix problems? Absolutely. Are they being successful at fixing problems? Absolutely again. Version 9 has been out for a little over TWO WEEKS for crying out loud. Maybe they haven't fixed the particular problem YOU are having yet but, give them a little time. TWO WEEKS is NOT that long whether you want to believe it or not.

    If you're having problems with 9.0, go back to 8.0. I don't believe your license to 9.0 will expire any time soon so sit back and wait a few more builds.

    Suggesting this is FRAUD is VERY strong language to use and language that is best used VERY carefully. And, as previously stated, there appear to be many, MANY foreign users of Acronis products.

    By the way, I think I'll run over to PC Magazine and PC World and give True Image a thumbs up. At least they (Acronis) HAVE a Support Forum. Many companies simply have a web page form or nothing more than an E-Mail address to send a report to, only to receive a canned reply. The fact that Acronis watches and responds to this forum is to be commended as well. Again, in MY opinion.

    Flame me if you wish. I'm sticking with Acronis as I tend to like companies who DO interact with their customer base. I firmly believe the problems will diminish greatly in the coming WEEKS (not YEARS). I have that much patience and I also have my tail covered if a disaster occurs on my PC(s).

    An Acronis SUPPORTER!

    (flame jacket on)
     
  7. mark7

    mark7 Registered Member

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    no need to yell...
     
  8. HomeTurf

    HomeTurf Registered Member

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    :D Sorry bout that. Didn't mean to make it seem like I was yellin or anything. Just posting an alternate view is all. :)

    Besides, I went to two football games last week. Voice is still hoarse so I couldn't yell if I wanted to. :blink:
     
  9. Heco

    Heco Registered Member

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    The last part of the reply CliveS has received from Acronis makes me worry a lot... "Our Developers have fixed all known issues and according to the information I have at the moment, the new build has no any problems." :eek:
    In my opinion, many bugs remain to be fixed before TI9.0 could be considered as a reliable backup software.
     
  10. Technic

    Technic Registered Member

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    Hi!

    I am pretty amazed about that reply from Acronis. And i am sorry for the some replies in this thread. I think it is better to face facts. Acronis flawed with TI 9.0. (I have bought that software, i am customer of Acronis).

    I was about to report to my credit card issuer about the "fraud". I am still waiting statement from Acronis about what went wrong etc.

    Cheers,

    Technic
     
  11. Paul Siu

    Paul Siu Guest

    It's not exactly fraud, but there's no warning or disclaimer on the box. Buyers of TrueImage 8 is not aware the version 9 is out there. Perhaps, Acronis's policy is short sighted. Perhaps Acronis want to clean out the Acronis TrueImage 8 before they bring in version 9 and make extra money from the upgrade? In either case, I feel that it is unfair.
     
  12. mark7

    mark7 Registered Member

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    No reviews of TI 9 on the net yet that I have found (too soon), but you can weigh in on TI 8 at ZDNet and PC Mag (PC World doesn't look like it accepts reader input). IMO reader comments are great - I do consider Editor's reviews of sponsored links, but I do not attribute a lot of weight to them ;)

    http://reviews-zdnet.com.com/Acronis_True_Image_8_0/4505-3682_16-31256880.html (Jul '04)

    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1845159,00.asp (Dec '04)

    http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,117961,00.asp (Nov '04)

    There are links to more press reviews (TI 8 & more) from acronis.com at
    http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage/reviews.html

    I like TI 8 very much and am sorry that Acronis chose to abandon its simple interface, stop further development of TI 8, and release the abomination that is TI 9. I was using another DOS based product for Years, as I did not like any of the *new* releases for disk imaging solutions.

    Looks like I'll be staying with TI 8 for "years" (as always, YMMV).
     
  13. foghorne

    foghorne Registered Member

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    Not a chance. I am frustrated as anyone but I agree with every word you said.

    I would question their timing of going to market with their products, and it's not the first time - the release of TI8 was pretty similar to TI9 in terms of bugs and forum flak.

    The bottom line is, do I have confidence in Acronis sorting things out in the short term - Yes. I guess we just have to be patient for another week or two.
     
  14. mark7

    mark7 Registered Member

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  15. bobdat

    bobdat Registered Member

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    To HomeTurf:

    I'm sorry you seem to have misinterpreted my comments above. Please let me clarify for your benefit.

    HomeTurf: "...and according to the information I have at the moment..."
    And there's a KEY quote that you seem to be missing. You are claiming that Acronis is PURPOSELY defrauding their customers. Where's your PROOF?? What if that particular individual did NOT have the correct information at the time they sent the E-mail? What if it was a mistake? Are corporations NOT allowed to make any mistakes whatsoever? If it ever comes to that, then you would NEVER see any software made available. Show me ONE piece of software that is PERFECT on EVERY PC at Version 1 and does EVERYTHING it claims to do on EVREY single system made."


    Unfortunately, you have taken Mr. Kapustin's reply out of context and edited it and distorted its meaning. The complete sentence is:

    "Our Developers have fixed all known issues and according to the information I have at the moment, the new build has no any problems."

    That's a very clear statement from Acronis that all known issues have been fixed. It also clearly states that "the new build has no any problems". Granted, Acronis qualifies the second half of the sentence with the statement "according to the information I have at the moment".

    My opinion is that after all that has occured in this forum in the past two weeks it is incredible that Acronis right hand doesn't know that the left hand is having so many problems. It's just not believable that an Acronis support person like Mr. Kapustin didn't know there were still several very serious bugs in TI9 when he sent that reply.

    Where is my proof you ask? I do not have subpoena power so I have no 'hard' evidence other than my own personal experience and the common sense to form an opinion after observing what has been going on in this forum lately. In a legal proceeding proof would consist of forum records, emails and internal Acronis documents in the least. My belief as a reasonable person is that based upon the volume and intensity of recent forum complaints, all Acronis support personnel are fully aware that there are serious flaws remaining in TI9. Remember, Acronis support personnel have access to much more information than we see in this forum and only a fool would believe there are no serious TI9 problems after reading through just
    the last few days of posts.

    As for the "what if it was a mistake" scenario, I can see that as a newcomer you may be inclined to believe that. But, for those of us who have been involved in this forum for several months, the picture changes dramatically. Acronis has demonstrated a pattern of overpromising and underdelivering. To many of us, this equates to excusemaking, empty promises and repeated disappointment. When does all that progress from simply making repeated mistakes to becoming fraudulent conduct? Only a judge or jury can answer that after reviewing all the evidence.

    HomeTurf: "In my opinion, it seems that you have something against Acronis. If you indeed thought this was fraud, why didn't you contact your state's Attorney General instead of a couple of magazines? All you are attempting to do is try to get Acronis to have a bad name. I stress TRYING as I personally don't believe you would succeed. I, for one, AM happy with Acronis. Does it have problems? Sure? Are they attempting to fix problems? Absolutely. Are they being successful at fixing problems? Absolutely again. Version 9 has been out for a little over TWO WEEKS for crying out loud. Maybe they haven't fixed the particular problem YOU are having yet but, give them a little time. TWO WEEKS is NOT that long whether you want to believe it or not."

    I respect your opinion. I have nothing "against" Acronis. I am a disappointed owner who feels cheated and unfulfilled. I didn't contact my state attorney general because as most of us know, it is very difficult to motivate a busy governmental agency with far more important casework on its hands to investigate a $49 fraud complaint. In fact, it would be utterly ridiculous for me to attempt to do such a thing. In order to invite governmental investigation of this type of event, complaints would have to be directed to the Federal Trade Commission which could then capture the true magnitude of any such fraudulent actions on a nationwide basis. Prosecutions in these types of cases usually result in fines, restitution (refunds) and cease and desist orders to halt the prohibited practices and requirements to assure future compliance to applicable laws.

    I can assure you that I am not trying to give Acronis a bad name. They have done that all by themselves. And, I don't mean that sarcastically. Unfortunately for Acronis and all of us, they have severely damaged their own credibility by their recent actions.


    HomeTurf: "If you're having problems with 9.0, go back to 8.0. I don't believe your license to 9.0 will expire any time soon so sit back and wait a few more builds."

    Well, that's a good suggestion. A rollback will work for me because I bought TI8. But, it may not work for those who bought TI9 because of its advertised capabilities. You really can't minimize the severity of the situation that Acronis has created for themselves and all of us.


    HomeTurf: "Suggesting this is FRAUD is VERY strong language to use and language that is best used VERY carefully. And, as previously stated, there appear to be many, MANY foreign users of Acronis products."

    I agree with you. Fraud is a serious offense and alleging it is also serious. I arrived at my conclusion that Acronis appears to be engaged in conducting a fraudulent business practice based upon my own experience and also after reading about the experiences of hundreds of other TrueImage users.


    HomeTurf: "By the way, I think I'll run over to PC Magazine and PC World and give True Image a thumbs up. At least they (Acronis) HAVE a Support Forum. Many companies simply have a web page form or nothing more than an E-Mail address to send a report to, only to receive a canned reply. The fact that Acronis watches and responds to this forum is to be commended as well. Again, in MY opinion."

    Again, I respect your opinion. You are as free to contact the editors as I or anyone else is. Do whatever you think is right. Also, I agree with your observation that Acronis deserves recognition for participating in this forum. The forum is a very useful tool for them to receive well thought through suggestions from users as well as for users to receive useful support from each other and from Acronis. It has had a positive influence on me defending Acronis and me recommending TrueImage 8 to others. Unfortunately, lately I cannot in good conscience commend Acronis or recommend TrueImage in its present state.


    HomeTurf: "Flame me if you wish. I'm sticking with Acronis as I tend to like companies who DO interact with their customer base. I firmly believe the problems will diminish greatly in the coming WEEKS (not YEARS). I have that much patience and I also have my tail covered if a disaster occurs on my PC(s). An Acronis SUPPORTER! (flame jacket on)"

    Flaming has no place in an intelligent discussion. One of the distinguishing characteristics of this forum is the high quality of discussions that occur here, with great credit due to the moderators. I also agree with your observation that the problems will diminish in time. But, the fact remains that repeated misrepresentation of TrueImage by Acronis officials who are reasonably expected to be familiar with their products fits the legal requirement to be deemed fraudulent conduct.

    "Our Developers have fixed all known issues and according to the information I have at the moment, the new build has no any problems."

    What else could it be at this point?

    I hope to the utmost that I am wrong about Acronis' true intent. I wish I could believe in them again like I did before. But, I can't ignore the facts that have been presented here for six months.

    Thank you.
     
  16. CliveS

    CliveS Registered Member

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    bobdat wrote: -

    I received the post yesterday, 7th October.
     
  17. bobdat

    bobdat Registered Member

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    Thanks for the update.
     
  18. TheQuest

    TheQuest Registered Member

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    Hi, bobdat

    What OS are you using?

    I am willing to bet it is a M$ OS.

    Because M$ has been selling OS's since DOS and they have still not fixed one of them yet, but you still go buying them.

    What have you to say about them? [Meaning M$]

    You must have Computer Magazine Editors pulling their hair out, with you being their biggest complainant of M$ and their OS's.

    But No, of cause you do not, why? because no one would take you seriously.

    Just as they will not about you rant about Acronis.

    They are just bugs, that the long and short of it.

    Get a life. :D

    Take Care,
    TheQuest :cool:
     
  19. gue_st

    gue_st Guest

    don't know...

    at least, M$ os's did install properly on ANY computer I have tried (as contrary to Acronis TI).

    the only real fault of M$ OS's is that they are not real os's, but they do not really advertise them so, do they? otherwise those seem to perform their primary function, and that is the reason people keep buying them.

    but those who are SELLING backup software that cannot really backup/restore, or anything like that, really deserve some amount of bashing.
     
  20. Detox

    Detox Retired Moderator

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    If you really feel that way it will need to take place elsewhere - here's our TOS.
     
  21. gue_st

    gue_st Guest

    Not really, because provided information is not false. I actually bought TI which does not work on my computer in the way I bought it for (and which was advertsed as working). And no working version since almost 2 years now. Plus, how do you legally check boot CD without buying the software?
    How is that, shouldn't be any TOS working there too?
     
  22. Detox

    Detox Retired Moderator

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    Nope, that is just fine... and that also is not bashing. What you just wrote is perfectly acceptable; writing things like

    as you can see here normal complaints and support issues do not fall under the definition of "bashing." Bashing has not, is not, and will not be allowed. This is enough pulling the thread off-topic; if you would like to discuss this more it can be done privately.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2005
  23. Othmar

    Othmar Guest

    have I ever seen a reply from Acronis to this thread titled 'reply from Acronis'?

    No. Strange, whichever way you look@it (because there were several other issues which got their replies from Acronis in the meantime).

    Cheers: Othmar
     
  24. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

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    Hello everyone,

    Thank you for choosing Acronis Disk Backup Software.

    I'm really sorry for Eugene's reply. Of course the latest build of Acronis True Image 9.0 still has several serious problems that need to be fixed as soon as possible. However, as you can see, our Development Team is working really hard in order to achieve this goal and fix all known problems. The new builds are released rather regularly.

    The point is that Eugene is a newcomer in our Support Team and he probably just do not have enough experience yet to formulate a correct answer. We will certainly take an appropriate measures in order to avoid such incorrect replies from our support engineers in the future.

    Thank you.
    --
    Alexey Popov
     
  25. spm

    spm Registered Member

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    I have been following this thread without input until now, but following this direct input from Acronis I feel I must contribute.

    First, the fact is that Acronis released TI9 without any form of beta testing. That in itself will always create a PR disaster (and there is no doubt that is what Acronis has created), as it will always result in a sub-standard product being foisted on paying customers. This is further compounded by an uncompromising attitude by Acronis to its customers, re their facetious arguments about why they offer only a 30-day grace period for new buyers. So, they deserve the mess thay have gotten themselves into.

    Of course, it is very probable that they risked this consciously, out of their fear about Symantec's expected release of Ghost 10.0. Whether they got that right (from Acronis' perspective, that is) will only become clear in time.

    It is therefore not unreasonable to expect that many of their customers take umbrage. Whether or not people feel it was a deliberate attempt to defraud customers, or rather a possibly misguided commercial decision by Acronis is neither here nor there. People get angry, and they have a right to express that anger.

    Why is that, then, that some people here believe others have no right to their feelings? Comments such as "get a life" are totally out of place, and I fail to see why the moderators should allow such comments to stand unadmonished at the same time as they promote the need to obey the forum's TOS. Double standards engender mistrust and compromise authority.

    OK, that said, this post by Acronis is completely out of line. They seek now to shift the blame away from Acronis, and on to an individual. Let's be clear here, that individual is an employee of Acronis (at least he was at the time he made his claims). As such, then, under most nation's laws what that individual says or writes in the name of the company he works for is, by definition, the official position of that company. Acronis, therefore, have now completely admitted liability for their mistakes. Whether or not that is cause for legal action is not of concern to me, but at the very least Acronis have a moral duty in my mind to appease those who feel wronged by their actions.

    At the very least IMO that should include (a) an extension of the grace period for upgrades to 90 days prior to the date of Acronis' TI9 announcement; (b) a full refund to all those unsatisfied customers who have to date paid the TI9 upgrade fee; and (c) nothing short of a public and sincere apology, rather than the inadequate "it wasn't me" attitude so far displayed by them. Maybe then they could rescue this situation, and start to display an attitude which actually shows some respect to their customers.
     
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