Replacing a hard drive

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by Broeux, Dec 7, 2006.

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  1. Broeux

    Broeux Registered Member

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    I need to replace the old 40GB HD in my wife's pc and have been reading this forum trying to understand the procedures. I'm awaiting delivery of TI 10 Home and want to be ready when it arrives. This is rather unfamiliar to me, but as I understand it this is the preferred method; please correct me where I'm wrong, and clarify as needed:

    1. Image wife's old hd to drive on my computer, via network. I've read about Migrate Easy, which is part of TI 10, and I assume this is what I would use. This is what is referred to as cloning, or is that a different procedure?

    Q: Does TI have a verification process to assure the image is complete and accurate?

    2. Create a TI recovery (boot) CD

    Q: I've read about making a Linux boot disk. How does one do that if they do not have a Linux system? Is it a TI option?

    3. Pull old hd, install new one, insert boot disk and start up.

    Q: Is the original Windows CD needed at any point in the process?

    4. Restore image from my hd to wife's new hd, via TI.

    Any elaboration of the details of the procedure, in plain English, would be much appreciated.

    Bob
     
  2. phil.brady

    phil.brady Registered Member

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    Bob,
    I use TI 9 but the principles are the same. I also expect you'll get lots of responses.

    Cloning is copying from old to new disk directly. A good option if you can connect both drives to the laptop.

    The Linux disk, the boot disk, the recovery disk are all the same thing - Linux plus a linux version of acronis. Once loaded into memory you can remove the CD. You create it from Acronis - two versions - safe and full - burn both onto the same disk.

    Do try it out before you do anything else - boot the laptop up with that CD before you start any copying or disk swapping - check that you can 'see' the network drive first. If you cannot then my reading suggests you should be asking questions about BARTP instead of the boot disk, or trying a USB connected drive or copying the image to DVD from your net drive (only if partition small and well defragged first).

    When you create the image do a full disk or partition (not files only) and do verify it. Then load the boot CD and try to 'mount' the image - see if you can read a few files. If you can do that then you'd be pretty confident about opening up and swapping the drives. Remember the antistatic strap!

    You are correct - you do NOT need you original windows disk.

    Hope that helps. Good luck.
    Phil
     
  3. jmk94903

    jmk94903 Registered Member

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    Install TrueImage on your wife's PC and create the Recovery CD. Test that her computer boots properly from the Recovery CD and that you can see her hard drive and your computer's shared folder on the network.

    At this point, you can make an image of her hard drive to your computer over the network. Note: make an image by selecting backup and not clone! If you selected clone, it would wipe out your hard drive and make it a copy of hers which you don't want to do. After you have made the image, verify it.

    If all that checks out, you are ready to remove her old hard drive and install the new drive. Boot from the Recovery CD and restore the image to the new hard drive from the image on your computer.

    Yes

    TI will prompt you to make the Recovery CD when you install the program, or you can choose that option later. The boot disk created is a Linux disk, but it runs TrueImage and looks very much like TrueImage running under Windows.

    Noe that you want to first make an image of the hard drive and store it on your computer. Do this from the Recovery CD to confirm that you can see the network.

    Nope. That's the great part about disk image backups.

    And you are done. :)

    Hope this was clear.
     
  4. rjwalker

    rjwalker Registered Member

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    Do I understand this correctly...

    In the scenario where the system hard drive has gone bad and has been replaced with a new, physically different hard drive, of larger capacity, there is no particular obstacle to restoring sectors from the old drive the the new drive? Even if the primary partition is a different # of bytes?

    Is that correct?
     
  5. bVolk

    bVolk Registered Member

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  6. Broeux

    Broeux Registered Member

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    Thanks to all for the assistance. Please excuse my delayed response as there was a medical emergency in the family yesterday.

    The cloning sounds even easier. Is this the correct procedure?

    Install new drive in her pc as slave
    Clone to new drive
    Replace old with new drive, changing it to master
    Then is the boot cd needed to boot to the new drive? (I'm no clear on this.)

    And there is no need to go into disk management for anything, partitioning and such all being done by TI?

    A brief step-by-step would be helpful, to correct any omissions in mine.

    Thanks much to all. I may be away from the computer a couple of days but will try to follow up with this project soon and will let you know if I need further clarification. My TI 10 is to be delivered today.

    Bob
     
  7. bVolk

    bVolk Registered Member

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    Bob,

    You could clone, yes. But going the imaging > restoring with resize route will give you quite a few advantage points:

    - it appears to be a more robust technique
    - you still have the image if something doesn't go as expected
    - it gives more flexibility in resizing the partitions
    - it doesn't transfer the bad sector flags (if any) to the perfectly good new drive.

    Cloning is faster, but you don't replace a system drive every day.

    Anyway, if you decide to clone, take care that you shut down the computer as soon as the cloning operation has finished and connect only the clone (as master). Windows should not see two C: drives on first boot after cloning, as it might get confused. After the first boot you may reinstall the old drive as slave and format it for further use.
     
  8. Bruce Mahnke

    Bruce Mahnke Registered Member

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    Does the procedure written by Menorcam apply to True Image 10 Home also? Can this be applied to a system with a single partition? I will be trying to transfer an image created of a 40 GB single partition drive which is failing (SMART error) to a 120 GB drive which I would like it to also be a single partition.

    Thanks for your help.
     
  9. bVolk

    bVolk Registered Member

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    Bruce,

    I have never run TI10, but from what I read on this forum I'm almost certain that it does. Start it for a trial (without clicking on Proceed at the end of the Recovery wizard) and you'll see if your screens match the instructions.

    For a single partition that you want to remain single on the new drive, you select it and only jump back one time to include the MBR as well.
     
  10. Bruce Mahnke

    Bruce Mahnke Registered Member

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    Running TI10, build 4871 I started the recovery wizard. The options are somewhat different. The selection options as in the past are Disk 1 or in this case with a single partition you can select the partition or MBR and Track 0. If you select the system partition and step through the wizard and then go back and select MBR and Track 0 you no longer have the option of including the previously selected partition. Only MBR and Track 0 appear.

    I don't have the PC yet so I can't proceed with the larger drive to test further. I'll have it in a couple of hours. My initial thought is to do it in a two-step process. By this I mean running the wizard to install the c: partition. Then run the wizard again to add the MBR and Track 0. At this point I don't know what to think but I should know more shortly.

    I greatly appreciate your comments.
     
  11. bVolk

    bVolk Registered Member

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    Bruce,

    When you jump back to select the MBR and Track 0 the partition C: task has already been accepted but indeed the tickmark next to C: doesn't appear any more. However, if after selecting the MBR you slowly step further to the last screen where the tasks are listed, you'll see that both C: and the MBR are shown in the tasks list. At this point you can still safely Cancel instead of Proceed-ing.
     
  12. Bruce Mahnke

    Bruce Mahnke Registered Member

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    Something must be different in TI 10. After going back and selecting MBR and Track 0 and then proceeding to the results screen just prior to Proceed, the message displayed reads Operation 1 of 1, Restoring MBR. That suggests to me that that is the only action that will take place. Perhaps a better solution would be to use the cloning option, don't know.
     
  13. bVolk

    bVolk Registered Member

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    Did they change that function? Surprising.

    Anyway, rather than cloning (well, yes, I don't like it) I would do it in two passes: first I would restore the entire drive (Disk 1 checked, everything beneath autochecked) to get both the C: and MBR restored. I would check that the drive boots and works fine and then I would do a second restore from the same image, this time with only partition C: checked to resize it to full capacity.
     
  14. bVolk

    bVolk Registered Member

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    Bruce,

    I simulated the single pass procedure again (TI9).

    I selected only C: and set the restore parameters for it. By selecting "yes, I want..." I jumped back to the partitions selection screen. The tickbox for partition C: was empty, but the drive icon next to it now carried a very small green tick that wasn't there before. I selected MBR and proceeded to the final screen where three tasks were listed:

    - the task to delete the current destination partition (current C: )
    - the task to restore C:
    - the task to restore the MBR.

    Cancelled.
     
  15. Bruce Mahnke

    Bruce Mahnke Registered Member

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    I just received the PC in need of repair. Will look some more on this tomorrow but it appears that TI 9 is somewhat different than TI 10. Will keep you posted.
    Thanks for your responses.

    Bruce
     
  16. Broeux

    Broeux Registered Member

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    Surprise, this hospital has a family room with Internet access! Had just enough time to check back here, and on cursory reading imaging is sounding a bit more involved (though you convinced me to go that route).

    Not clear what resize means for me. I’m imaging a 26GB drive with c: partition only to a 120GB with one partition only. I assume that applies if I'm making more than one partition on the drive?

    Also, I’m doing the same thing Bruce is doing but now there’s the talk of “Disk 1” or selecting “the partition or MBR and Track 0.” Isn’t c: disk 0? And what does track 0 refer to? I thought it would image the old drive in one "swell foop." I just want to make sure I don’t screw up the little woman’s computer too badly!

    No doubt things will fall into place when I get the chance to install TI and start going through the procedure. But I may need more guidance. This is obviously the place to be for that. You folks are to be commended for sharing your experience with us.

    Bob

    Note: Something I've always wondered, maybe one of you knows, can the MBR alone be restored from a backup, either from TI 10 or Windows backup?
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2006
  17. thomasjk

    thomasjk Registered Member

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    Bob, look at this post by Menorcaman https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=769388&postcount=5. It will explain all the details and should answer your questions.
     
  18. bVolk

    bVolk Registered Member

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    Broeux,

    Maybe just a few points that aren't covered by Menorcaman is those instructions.

    Windows calls the first drive Disk 0, TI calls it Disk 1. It's of no consequence as long as you are aware of that.

    The MBR and Track 0 (Master Boot Record) are the drive's system data that reside outside the partitions and have to be restored as well for a new (blank) drive to boot after restoration.

    You have two options to restore the entire disk image of the 26 GB to the 120 GB.

    1) By doing an entire disk restore (Disk 1 checked, C: and MBR autochecked). That would give you a working 120 GB drive with a 26 GB C: on it and 94 GB of unallocated space. You could convert the 94 GB into a D: partition with Windows Disk Management (to store data that doesn't need to be backed up), but it would probably be too large compared to the small C:.

    2) By doing a partitions restore with resize (read Menorcaman). This way you could set the C: partition to either take all of the 120 GB or set it perhaps to take only 80 GB, allowing you to create a new partition D: in the 40 GB of unallocated space that would result.

    The partitions restore in TI does allow to restore the MBR and Track 0 alone.
     
  19. Bruce Mahnke

    Bruce Mahnke Registered Member

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    Following up to the previous discussion I found myself with a very time consuming issue. A system with two internal PATA drives was presenting a SMART error suggesting that the system drive, drive 0 primary, was failing. The existing C: drive was a 40GB Maxtor drive which was quite old. Also installed was a 30 GB Maxtor PATA D: drive used for backups which obviously was also quite old also. A need existed to create an image of the failing C: drive to transfer to a replacement.

    Two options were considered:
    1. Created an image (*.tib) of the failing C: drive using TI 10, build 4871. Considered also the option of cloning to a 120 GB Seagate PATA replacement drive about to be installed as C:.
    2. Having Norton Ghost 2003 installed I created an image with that as I needed all potential options available.

    Result:
    Given time constraints I elected to restore from the Ghost 2003 image. This was not my first choice as I preferred to use True IMAGE but I had used this in the past successfully when restoring to a larger hard drive. Granted this may not work with many of the newer systems but it was acceptable in this application.

    Summary:
    I believe that a definitive procedure needs to be written to explain the procedure, step by step if necessary, when replacing a drive with a larger size (re-sizing if you will) using True Image 10. I have not seen a comprehensive approach that works with this version and certainly this must be a common problem. This can be by installing a *.tib image or by cloning it really doesn't matter. When drive failures occur you need to move for correction and time does not permit having to probe for answers or experiment with potential solutions.

    Bruce
     
  20. Xpilot

    Xpilot Registered Member

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    Replacing a hard drive using any of the recent versions of TI can be a very simple operation.
    I always do it from a whole disk image. After all that is the main reason I keep an archive of of whole disk images. I see no benefit in employing a different method ie. cloning, especially in an emergency when in any case the existing hard drive may not be useable.

    I always do the restore ignoring any size differences between the old and new drives. This way one can be up and running in the shortest possible time and can sort out any size changes with a working system.

    Obviously if one has a separate disk partitioning program to hand one could use that to allocate extra space as one wishes.

    However I have always used the simplest and fastest method which is available in True Image itself.
    This consists of using the Manage Secure Zone Wizard to create a secure zone using the unallocated space.

    The final step is to remove the newly created zone using the same wizard. This presents the user with options of allocating the freed up space to existing partitions or even leaving some free for another partition to be created conventionally.


    Xpilot
     
  21. Broeux

    Broeux Registered Member

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    Thanks for all the help guys. I finally got time to install TI 10 and look around. First, I learned I don't have to create a recovery CD; I have the retail box with the installation CD which is the bootable CD. This is what I've done so far:

    Booted into TI > pick a task > backup > create backup wizard > select... > my computer (wife's) > partition selection: disk 1, ntfs c: > archive location: I see my network, but only c: on MY computer - can't see f: or g: where I'd prefer to store the image - > named the file > "create new full backup archive" > Proceed

    Is everything correct to this point? Why can't I see f: and g: on the network (both are shared)? Help file says I should run TI from Windows rather than the program/boot disk, if possible, for full functionality. Do you think that would make a difference? I wouldn't think so.

    I didn't see option to image MBR or 0. Where does that come in?

    How am I doing so far?

    Have to run; will try to check back here in the next 12 hours. Thanks again.

    Bob
     
  22. Broeux

    Broeux Registered Member

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    I've been away from this project for a while but proceeded with it today. All went according to my understanding of the process, except:

    In Recovery (from the old 26.56GB drive) to the new drive (118.8GB), I ticked off C: and allocated the full 118.8GB and then went back and checked MBR/track 0. Both couldn't be checked at the same time, but it was my understanding that if I went back and checked MBR/track 0, it would add the MBR/track 0 operation to the partition operation. On the screen where it showed the operations, it first listed something like "disk partition recovery from archive...hdbackup2.tib" (my image); then "operation 1 of 1" - the MBR/track 0.

    I thought that looked like only the MBR/track 0 was to be restored, but the preceding listing of the hdbackup2.tib file made me think perhaps all was being restored. Proceed > immediately it returned with "restoration complete" (or similar). So I knew it had not restored the image.

    I went back and checked off the C: partition, again allocated the the full 118.8GB, then Proceed. It showed operation 1 of 1: restoring partition, drive letter C: -> E:, file system NTFS, Volume label (blank), size 26.56GB -> 118.8GB. (But I didn't notice the C: -> E: until I had clicked Proceed.)

    I don't understand the C: -> E: I thought I was allocating the full 118.8GB to the new drive's C: I never designated D: and E: partitions:

    Can someone tell me what is going on here. Thanks for help asap.
     
  23. beezer44

    beezer44 Registered Member

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    Sorry to jump this conversation, but my situation is very similar, and I would like to confirm I am headed the right way. Apologies, in advance, if I am treading on good netiquette.

    Dell tells me my 160GB HD is susceptible to crash. Under warranty, the manufacturer will yank the old one and replace it. But the technician will not wait around for me to do a drive-to-drive cloning. Nor will they let me do the swap myself.

    I have used TI10 to clone the old HD to an external USB HD drive of much more capacity than the drive being replaced. This cloning operation seemed to go fine. (The old HD had 3 partitions. One was labeled -- e.g., the C: drive. The other two were unlabeled FAT32 partitions. One of several MB and one of several GB. I manually partitioned to keep the size of the 2 unlabeled partitions at their old size.)

    I have a boot disk (presumably) in the form of the store-bought TI10 CD-Rom.

    Am I right in assuming that once I boot with the CD-rom, I will be able to replicate the cloning process -- this time from the external USB drive to the new 160GB HD? If so, where does TI10 find the software to reclone from to backup drive to new target drive? If not, how do I go about getting the info back inside my Dell?

    Any help from the assembled multitudes is most gratefully accepted.
     
  24. Broeux

    Broeux Registered Member

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    To answer my own queation, in part, I went ahead with the restore, and as far as I can see everything worked fine. I have C: partition of 118.8GB. I still don't understand the meaning of the C: -> E: and would welcome the education.

    Also, my wife's old drive contained only about 9GB, as she had just recently reformatted and had not yet reinstalled everything. It took something over 3 hours to image/verify it and over 2 hours to restore to the new drive. Does this sound about right? I thought it was slow for the size of the image/restore.

    Beezer, I'll let the experts here advise you, but I can now vouch for the ease of imaging and restoring, from a small drive to a larger drive. As for the "software to reclone," you simply boot into TI10, and it handles the whole process.
     
  25. bVolk

    bVolk Registered Member

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    beezer44,

    As Broeux says, TI handles it. That's because when you boot from the Rescue CD a minimal version of Linux OS and a Linux version of TI are loaded from the CD into memory.

    Your question makes me assume that you never tried to boot from the Rescue CD and start the Linux TI. If so, you should do that before you have the drive replaced. Boot from the Rescue CD, invoke Validate image and verify that all the drives (especially the external) are visible. Also go through the first steps of defining the re-cloning process to verify that both the drives concerned respond to selection, then Cancel.

    Although cloning is the function meant right for your situation, there are points (discussed above) in favor of imaging/partition restoring with resize. If you consider the questionable current state of your crash-prone drive, preventing the bad sector flags to be carried over to the brand new drive (unnecessarily crippling it) may be an important point.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2006
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