Refund, please!

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by yacht_boy, Dec 3, 2004.

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  1. yacht_boy

    yacht_boy Registered Member

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    I downloaded the trial version of True Image 8.0 on Saturday the 20th of November and was impressed by what I saw. It specifically promised me that I could burn to DVD. So I went ahead and purchased the software. The trial made no mention of the cumbersome workaround necessary for DVD burning, or the fact that I would have to go out and buy more expensive DVD+RW discs for this to work. Since I couldn't get it to burn to my DVD-R discs, I burned a trial image of my system to CD-R. This took me an hour and used up 5 blank discs. When I tested the image, the very first disc I tried to use turned out to be corrupted.

    Fed up, I immediately wrote to support@Acronis.com for a refund. That was on Sunday the 21st of November, with no response. I wrote again on Wednesday the 24th, then gave the support staff a grace period for Thanksgiving. When I still hadn't received a reply to either email by yesterday, I went looking and found these forums, which weren't prominently mentioned anywhere when I downloaded the software. Following the pinned instructions, I sent a PM to Arthur detailing my trouble. It's been almost 36 hours and I STILL haven't heard back.

    Buggy software, false advertising, corrupted discs, and no such thing as customer support. Companies like this are the reason fewer and fewer people are willing to pay for software. In particular, I am NOT willing to pay for this garbage. I want my money back! :mad:
     
  2. Test

    Test Guest

    Why does the user get no answer??
     
  3. mareke

    mareke Registered Member

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    If you calm down you may be able to resolve the issue as it doesn't sound too serious to me. I've found burning to DVD quite easy. I make the image saving it to a second drive specifying a size of 4 GB and after it's made I burn it to 2 DVDs using Nero and ask Nero to verify the burn. What could be easier? I believe you can even burn directly to DVD but I prefer to not use components in Nero like In CD. I use ordinary 4 speed DVD blanks suitable for my NEC 3500AG DVD burner and I make sure I burn at a slow speed (4 speed rather than 16 speed) to get an accurate burn. I don't see why you can't do the same. An Acronis image is like any other piece of data on your hard drive and if you can burn other data from your hard drive to DVD you can do the same with an Acronis Image. What burner are you using?
     
  4. yacht_boy

    yacht_boy Registered Member

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    1-Why should I be calm when a product specifically says it will do something in its trial version (in this case, burn directly to DVD with no intermediate steps, just as it does for CD's)? I'm not looking for a workaround, I'm looking for product functionality. I accept workarounds from freeware and beta versions, not full-cost commerciall software on issue 8.0.

    2-The one image that I did burn was corrupt. Why should I spend more of my time messing around trying to figure this out? I followed all directions to the T. Every other piece of software that uses my burner works flawlessly. I had no other apps running-in fact, I was running from the Acronis boot disc, so there was no chance of interference. I have successfully burned many other CD's from the same batch of media with several other programs.

    3-Most importantly, why has it been impossible for me to get a reply from customer service? Even a simple acknowledgement that they had received any of my three prior messages and instructions similar to yours might have cooled me off a little, but this is no way to treat a paying customer.

    Finally, it doesn't matter whether or not I get this product working, as I've already purchased the competition, the equally loathesome Ghost 9.0. And while I'm no great fan of Norton, Ghost did exactly what it said it would, the first time, right out of the box.

    I still want my money back, workaround or no!
     
  5. GeeeAus

    GeeeAus Registered Member

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    Fair enough.

    You’re justified in wanting a refund as far as I'm concerned.

    I wonder if despite your difficulties and frustration, you'd perhaps be prepared to conduct a little experiment for us users of the forum here.

    If it doesn't cause you great inconvenience that is.

    Would you:

    1. Copy each CD's image file to a folder of your choice on a hard drive.

    2. Use "Check Image" to verify your first CD's image from this folder where all other parts of the archive are together.

    I'm not suggesting this is a solution to your problem (it isn't). But I'm curious to understand how this may affect verification outcomes.

    I and other users would be very grateful to you for doing so.

    I'd do the test myself, but I currently have no images multi-volume images that report as corrupted for me to conduct the experiment.

    Good luck with your new imaging product.

    Regards & Thanks


    GeeeAus
    .au
     
  6. mareke

    mareke Registered Member

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    Yacht_boy I don't see why it is so important to you to write directly to DVD. Surely the most important thing is to be able to restore an image. I know writing the image to a hard disc and then copying it to DVD takes probably 5 minutes longer than writing it directly to DVD but is that such a big deal? You say that your burner burns other things faultlessly but does it do it outside of Windows the way you expect Acronis to do since the image has to be burnt as it is made after using the boot CD? As long as Acronis restores an Image it matters little to me if it can burn an image directly to DVD as the main purpose of Acronis is to get you out of trouble and if it does that it's fulfilled its main purpose. I've burnt 4 or 5 images from the hard disc to DVD using Nero and the extra 4 or 5 minutes involved, which is about how long Acronis takes on my computer to write an image to a hard disc, is hardly a major issue.
     
  7. yacht_boy

    yacht_boy Registered Member

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    GeesAus-I'll be happy to try that, but it will probably be Monday or Tuesday until I have time to play with it. Don't be afraid to send me a reminder next week.

    Splitting Image-Thanks for the link! I haven't looked at it yet, but I assume it's the kind of material I would normally expect to see on the Acronis FAQ page or something similar. Interesting that they bury it in a thread of a post on a message board.

    Mareke-you're missing the point. I was told by the company that this product would do something that it won't and I feel that I've been misled. I also feel that my time has been wasted, and I'm very frustrated that no one at Acronis seems to care about their customers once they get their money. If the procedure to make a backup had been laid out for me as you specified right out of the gates, that would have been a different issue entirely. Also, when I bought the software, it was to make an image of a brand-new, out of the box system that came with one massive partition on a 160gig HD. The whole point of me making an image on DVD that particular time was to have a fallback in case something happened when I partitioned the drive. Your method requires at least two drives or partitions, if I'm reading it correctly. I didn't happen to have a second drive lying around to install so that I could write the image to it, nor did I want to partition the drive without first making the image, since the image was to be a fallback for possible partitioning snafus. Also, if I remember correctly from reading other posts, the ISO files can't be more than 1.9 gb, and my image would have been about twice that. Doesn't this means that I would have to use two DVD's instead of one? Why should I have to waste media on a software bug? And do I expect my burner to function outside of windows? If the software I purchase tells me it will function outside windows, then yes, I do! And why should I have to defend my decision to ask for a refund to you? The largest issue here is not the DVD-burning problem but the complete and total failure of the Acronis support system, and nothing you have said addresses that.
     
  8. mareke

    mareke Registered Member

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    Well if you are that particular then ask for a refund as you are entitled to one if a program doesn't work as it is supposed to. You don't need a second hard drive by the way. You could save the image to C drive even though it's not recommended and then burn it to a DVD or 2 DVDs (it would depend on how many programs you have installed; just a basic Windows installation would require 1 DVD). I specify an image size of 4 GB and I get 2 image parts one of 4 GB and the other 3.19 GB but that is with quite a few programs installed. Once you burn the image to DVDs you can delete the image on the hard drive and you have achieved what you wanted but of course it takes 5 minutes extra to achieve the same thing as burning directly to DVD. Some people including myself would not be bothered by that but if you are that particular about Acronis working exactly as advertised then by all means push for a refund. Of course if you get it they will be trusting that you did not burn a copy of the CD but who would do such a thing! Answer: a lot of people which is why once you’ve opened the box or downloaded the program they are understandably reluctant to give refunds.
     
  9. mareke, give it a rest already. yacht_boy tried ATI, found it lacking, and simply wants his money back. He's not looking for workarounds; he wants a refund. He stated that he already started using Ghost 9 and it's working right out of the box---that's the workaround he's chosen. The man is unhappy with Acronis, feels the advertising was a bit exaggerated, and is now perfectly within his rights to seek redress. Have you listened to anything he's said? He posted in this forum because Acronis Support would not reply to his request for a refund and he needed to know how to resolve that issue. yacht_boy is fed up with Acronis and wants his money back. Is that idea starting to filter through, mareke?

    Said by yacht_boy:
    Buggy software, false advertising, corrupted discs, and no such thing as customer support. Companies like this are the reason fewer and fewer people are willing to pay for software. In particular, I am NOT willing to pay for this garbage. I want my money back!

    Right on, brother!
     
  10. yacht_boy

    yacht_boy Registered Member

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    Thanks for your support, SI!
     
  11. yacht_boy

    yacht_boy Registered Member

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    After following the link that SI gave me, I see that there aren't really any further instructions there for obtaining a refund, since I purchased ATI from the digital river store. So since Acronis handles the refunds for purchases from DR, I still need someone at Acronis to contact me. I guess I'll send out another volley of emails and private messages on Monday. It really shouldn't be this difficult!
     
  12. mareke

    mareke Registered Member

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    Spitting Image I am aware that yacht_boy wants a refund and why and doesn't want alternatives to writing directly to DVD nevertheless I wanted to present some alternatives and a different view which gave some balance to his view and I have done that. I unlike you am on neither yacht_boy's nor Acronis' side.
     
  13. GeeeAus

    GeeeAus Registered Member

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    Hi there Yact Boy

    I was wondering if you had read my post and would be prepared to help provide me and other users with some data that may assist us with our ATI usage.

    I had noticed there had been several posts put forward, but couldn't find any comments from you in regards to my request.

    If its at all difficult for you to provide this data.

    Please don't concern yourself with doing so.

    But if you can GREAT...... :)

    GeeeAus
    .au
     
  14. jts

    jts Registered Member

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    It’s the frustration of trying to use a product that is very buggy (Best Producto_O? You have to be kidding me), the lack of support from the company (come on Acronis guys, there are many posts with the same problems - just solve them already), and the lack of concern by Arconis that I have difficulty with. After all, I paid for this product. I really like it when a product that I purchase works as advertised be it an automobile, my new coffee maker, a cell phone, or software. I paid $$$$$$ for this!!! If there are known problems, just let us know so that we can be intellegent decisions.

    I, too, thought that I bought a product that would work as advertised. I researched the computer magazines and other reviews. I did my homework. Right from the start I had difficulties. But no worries, there is support available by e-mail. Things just didn’t work as promised and, after e-mail after e-mail, calling Acronis in SF, waiting and hoping for a solution, there was NO response. This forum is heaven-sent but where is the company’s response, help, solutions, and responsibilities?

    I agree with whoever said that consumers are really questioning the necessity of buying software other then word processing, etc. Its times like this where purchasing software just isn’t worth the expense, frustrations, worries, time, etc. Less is more. Simple methods are the best methods. Why don’t software companies see the value in keeping their customers happy? Would Chevy or Ford treat their customers like this? I think not!!! And yet, we put up with this treatment.

    I truly understand the frustrations felt by many. It’s a sad reflection on the computer and technology field.

    jts
     
  15. GeeeAus

    GeeeAus Registered Member

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    At the risk of sounding biased I am truly impressed with Acronis TueImage. Though I feel 8.0 has presented some issues that previous releases did not.

    I use ATI every day of my working life, and have since it was released back in version 6 which had no scheduler, no built in verification tools and no static IP capabilities off the boot CD.

    It has issues with some PCs, and all revisions I've used do, but in general terms its excellent and really allows my partner and I to focus on the other areas of providing support to our customers without feeling that when we make changes to their systems we have no insurance policy against their data.

    It has failed us at times, and I've been quite frustrated, but its also risen to some pretty big challenges and saved our bacon too.

    The DVD recording functions are certainly less than ideal.

    However.

    I'll personally be sticking with it myself and continue to recommend it to our clients.

    Other users may feel differently, as Yacht Boy does and that is justifiable.

    With Respect SI.

    I interpreted Yacht Boys latter posts as inviting some discussion. (I don't means that he's open to workarounds for his own user with Acronis.); as he clearly is not.

    However Makere did provide some useful information to other forum readers by going into how Acronis can make images to the host drive from which it is cloning.

    It "Appeared" that Yacht Boy was unaware of this, and other readers may have been too. In that same post he agreed with Yacht Boys entitlement to a refund.

    As I Do Too.....

    But like he says "Balanced Views" are important.

    Please don't keep asking him to "Give It A Rest" he's contributed some good feedback that others will find helpful, just like you have. He's been a contributor, just like you have.

    Let him speak...... ☺

    Regards To All

    GeeeAus
    .au
     
  16. Zintar

    Zintar Guest

    So far, I've had better luck with Acronis support than Ford. (I never had a Chevy so I can't say.) That's impressive given that my last Ford product cost about 500 times as much. My last Ford spent about 50% of the first two months being repaired (and some issue were deemed to be unrepairable because the car was built off-center and "that's just the way some of them are") and it was towed twice in the first year. Parts were never in stock, various "theories" of how to repair things didn't work out.

    It's funny how many times I see these "Company X" wouldn't treat you like that posts and I know they're not true because I spend time on "Company X" related forums as well.

    So far my new Acura is doing well and the service is good but it was 700 times as much as TI and there are still angry owners in the forums. One bug (that never affected me personally but hit a small percentage of owners multiple times) took Acura a couple of years to figure out and redesign. If I didn't hang out in that forum, I would have thought it was perfect.
     
  17. foghorn

    foghorn Registered Member

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    A product which claims to do something and then fails when you try to use it, whilst a little frustrating, is not the end of the world. What is not acceptable however, is discovering significant obstacles in trying get a refund or resolve the problem.

    Writing generic software for non standard hardware is always going to be a bit of a rough ride, but Acronis are missing a *huge* trick by not managing customers' expectations.

    All that said, this product has never failed me since version 1. For all its warts, there is nothing else out there today which eclipses it.
     
  18. GeeeAus

    GeeeAus Registered Member

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    That seems on the mark Forghorn.

    Companies need to address their customers. To be honest companies are best advised to come clean when issues arise.

    "We're aware of the problem and we acknowledge that we have a responsibility to address it. You can help us, help you by providing us with _____ information."

    Still Acronis has, as you cited, a tricky and sticky task at hand making a utility that functions consistently across so many different revisions of an unpoliced open platform.

    This is in part why my business partner and I run our Windows / PC business out of a pair of Macs. It’s not because were zealots, we aren't. But it is because it buys us some more consistency and limits our options. Why on earth would you want that? -- you ask -–
    Well in doing so it ensures that for the MOST part, ( I use this word carefully ) we buy things and they just function as predicted. As Apple controls both computer hardware and operating system.

    Acronis has achieved technical miracles considering what the product offers. How well it functions on the sheer number of PCs that bear no real resemblance to each other is programming artwork to behold.

    Man; that was a wordy sentence....... :)

    Apple have problems with their own things working together nicely from time to time. So really PC utility makers like Acronis make small miracles when they can offer something that works with as much as it does, as well as it does.

    I just hope they can employ some good PR / Customer relations people soon, -- before a great package is left out in the cold by users who purchased elsewhere -- because -- Acronis didn't love them enough.......

    We can hope I suppose, can't we.......?

    Regards


    GeeeAus
    .au
     
  19. Paul Wilders

    Paul Wilders Administrator

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    Gents,

    FYI: support from Acronis fairly sure will be expanded on these Acronis Forums.

    regards.

    paul
     
  20. Steve1947

    Steve1947 Registered Member

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    I am not sure what you said, but the short answer to all of the problems can be solved by Acronis taking one of the following options:

    Pre-release a beta version of the TI software before they have a general release. This would have identified the cronic file corruption problem. It appears that Acronis does not have a test and acceptance environment and is expecting us, the general public, to do their work for them.

    Provide an automated interface for refunds. I was sucessful in obtaining a refund my following the path of Acronis, Digital River, Acronis. This takes time and patience. The assumption is that a large percentage of customers will give up - the same marketing logic that spawned the rebate strategy.

    The sad aspect of the poor service and buggy products is that Acronis has the best design, but unfortunately to most of the victims is just an emty promise.
     
  21. Paul Wilders

    Paul Wilders Administrator

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    Please refrain from assumptions - unless they can be backed up ;)

    Uncalled for - simply as that. See my comment above.

    Sorry to hear you feel that way. In real perspective the majority from Acronis users are happy campers. As ever, a small percentage encountering some sort of problem show up on software support forums - and that goes for all support forums. Merely to put things in perspective.

    regards.

    paul
     
  22. Steve1947

    Steve1947 Registered Member

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    Paul,

    You comment that the majority of the Acronis users are happy campers is an assumption as well. Unless thay have engaged in a third party survey this statement is problematic.

    Don't get me wrong, I loved the product and I cannot expect any software company with a diverse customer base to produce flawless code. However, when you perform a search of the Acronis Form and look for all occurances of "corrupted" yoiu will see a common failure.

    Raise the price, expand the testing, and you see Acronis's business improve.

    Regards, Steve
     
  23. My refund progress:

    Initial request for refund...December 01, 2004
    Sole reply...December 03, 2004
    No further progress.

    I've never dealt with any company that took two days just to initiate an email reply to a simple refund request. Or, for that matter, that takes two days to answer an email...period.

    To put it in a manner that will satisfy other posters...IN MY EXPERIENCE, this company has the worst tech/customer support I've ever dealt with. Others may have had different experiences.

    I have no doubts that True Image is a great product...when it works. There's quite a few posts in this forum, mine included, that suggest that it doesn't work for quite a few users.

    Did Acronis not test the product, or are they using customers as beta testers? The question is academic, especially when I've paid $699 for True Image Server and it doesn't work on our system. Acronis has a problem and they are not dealing with it to the satisfaction of their customers.
     
  24. Paul Wilders

    Paul Wilders Administrator

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    Acronis registered user numbers vs. (founded) complaint numbers from registered users do provide Acronis an insight ;)

    All software companies do encounter all sorts of individual and common issues. Some are purely customer system related, others aren't - and have to be looked into indeed.

    ...that does not necesseraly imply it's the software that is to blame ;)

    Other then knowing Acronis is doing fairly well - I'm the last person able to comment on that one.

    regards.

    paul
     
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