Recommend a BiBM partition scheme?

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by Snoop3, Jul 6, 2015.

  1. Snoop3

    Snoop3 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    Posts:
    474
    hi, i have a 60 GB Win 7 partition on a 256 GB SSD and 15 GB unallocated before it and the rest unallocated after it. Wondering what kind of partitions to make and where to place BiBM and also i thought i read that all Windows OS partitions need to be primary - is this true? i would like to put a Win XP on there later as well and maybe Win 8 or 10 and some Linux OSes and wondering how best to construct.

    Also, if i were to make a partition for the page file for Windows on the SSD - would that wear out too quick or? maybe its not needed on SSD? if i had several Windows OSes it seems like i could save space by having a separate Page File partition and use it for all of them. the system has 8 GB RAM if it matters.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2015
  2. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Posts:
    8,649
    Location:
    NSW, Australia
    Snoop3,

    To create a BIBM boot disk...

    To install BIBM (it will create its own partition at the front or end of the SSD) (it doesn't matter which one)...

    See this page for installing Windows OS...

    http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/howto/index.htm

    See this page for installing Ubuntu...

    http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=279

    Basically, to install an OS with BIBM as the boot manager you...

    Create a partition
    Create a Boot Item
    Attempt to boot the Boot Item. It won't boot as there is no OS but this sets the partition active and creates partition tables for that Boot Item. Press Ctrl Alt Delete and...
    Boot from the OS disk and install the OS
    After the OS is running to your satisfaction you will have to boot from the BIBM media and "Reactivate BIBM" as the Windows install inactivates the boot manager.
     
  3. Snoop3

    Snoop3 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    Posts:
    474
    Thanks Brian. kind of complicated, will take me a while to figure out. If i install BiBM with Win 7 already on there, will it detect it and then just take over the booting (kind of like GRUB does when u install linux from live CD) or will i have to re-install Win 7 after BiBM?
     
  4. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Posts:
    8,649
    Location:
    NSW, Australia
    Easy. Install BIBM and it will create a Win7 Boot Item. Click the Boot Item to boot Win7.
     
  5. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Posts:
    8,649
    Location:
    NSW, Australia
    Just a reminder, it is in the Ubuntu web page I mentioned in a recent post, install Grub to the Ubuntu partition and not to the MBR.

    You can have multiple Windows and Linux OS on the SSD. I think the maximum is over 200 but you will need a big SSD to hold that many.
     
  6. Snoop3

    Snoop3 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    Posts:
    474
    Thanks Brian. its gonna take me a while to work on this, still moving programs and stuff from an older computer to this one, grab the licenses from email etc..
     
  7. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Posts:
    8,649
    Location:
    NSW, Australia
    No problems. Let us know if you have any questions.
     
  8. Snoop3

    Snoop3 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    Posts:
    474
    worked perfect.

    with this setting of more than 4 primary partitions, could i still view partitions with other apps like GParted but dont move or change the partitions unless its with BiBM? also, would other imaging software still work or only use IFL and IFW?
     
  9. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Posts:
    8,649
    Location:
    NSW, Australia
    Snoop3,

    Let's say you have 10 primary partitions on your SSD and you have chosen 3 partitions to be in the LBA-0 partition table (the standard partition table we all use). Then 7 primary partitions will be in the EMBR, the extended MBR, LBA-1, LBA-2 and beyond. BIBM, IFW, IFD and IFL see all 10 primary partitions. Windows Explorer, Windows Disk Management, Diskpart and other partitioning software see only 3 primary partitions; the ones that are in LBA-0. The other 7 primary partitions, if they are contiguous, are shown as a single chunk of unallocated free space. Or as areas of unallocated free space if they aren't contiguous.

    Regarding other imaging software, they should work fine in backing up the partitions they can see. But an entire drive image would not be possible.
     
  10. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Posts:
    8,649
    Location:
    NSW, Australia
    Say your SSD has 5 primary partitions, 4 OS and a common data partition. When you set up a boot item the partitions you choose will be entered in the LBA-0 partition table and all other partitions will be in the EMBR. So the LBA-0 partition table will change each time you boot a different boot item. Your boot items would be...

    OS1, Data
    OS2, Data
    OS3, Data
    OS4, Data

    When an OS is booted it will not see any of the other OS partitions. No chance of cross talk.
     
  11. Snoop3

    Snoop3 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    Posts:
    474
    Brian, is there a way to let Windows see these other partitions? i usually create a bunch of partitions like Documents, Downloads, Portable Apps, Page File, etc and Windows sees them even on that extended LVM(?) thing that linux does. the file manager can only see 2 of them now.
     
  12. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Posts:
    8,649
    Location:
    NSW, Australia
    Yes, you can create an Extended Partition containing multiple logical volumes. The Extended Partition counts as one Primary Partition. Windows and other software would be able to see all of the Logical Volumes.

    BIBM allows you to hide any Logical Volume you don't want seen by a particular OS.

    Remember, BIBM allows you to have over 200 Primary Partitions but Windows can only see a maximum of 4 Primary partitions on any drive. You choose which 4 Primary partitions you want Windows to see on any drive.

    Edit... Since installing BIBM have some of your partitions "disappeared"?
     
  13. Snoop3

    Snoop3 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    Posts:
    474
    no, i just had one data partition that i had to move into correct position and i added several before and a few after it. i created most of them with BiBM and then i could only see 2 after reboot.

    do i have to start over or can i convert one existing partition to an Extended partition and then convert these others to logical volumes and drag them into the extended partition?

    maybe a better question is how would you recommend i structure these partitions?

    BiBM - at the start of SSD
    15 GB unallocated space
    60 GB Win 7
    15 GB Win XP (empty)
    10 GB Linux 1 (empty)
    10 GB Linux 2 (empty)
    10 GB Documents
    20 GB Downloads
    40 GB Media Files
    10 GB Sync
    20 GB Portable Apps
    5 GB Browsers
    5-10 GB Page File (not sure if necessary on SSD)
    rest of drive unallocated or maybe a MISC partition or SWAP for Linux
    all partitions are NTFS except the linux ones (maybe FAT32 is better?)

    i just want to be able to access those last 7 partitions from any Windows OS started and maybe some for linux too

    edit: except for Win7 and Portable Apps all the partitions are still empty so it will be easy for me to move stuff here and there
     
  14. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Posts:
    8,649
    Location:
    NSW, Australia
    When I first started using partitioning software I had multiple data partitions. I now feel this is counterproductive. In my system your Documents, Downloads, Media Files, Sync, Portable Apps, Browsers would be folders inside a single partition I'd call Data. I backup this partition with data backup software and not imaging software. The page file is in the OS partition. Logical Volumes in an Extended Partition aren't used in my computers as these Volumes aren't as robust as Primary Partitions.

    So my setup would be...

    BiBM - at the start of SSD
    15 GB unallocated space
    60 GB Win 7
    15 GB Win XP (empty)
    10 GB Linux 1 (empty)
    10 GB Linux 2 (empty)
    105 GB Data
    Free Space

    All your data files would be visible to each OS.
     
  15. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Posts:
    8,649
    Location:
    NSW, Australia
    Let's say you have the above partitions and you restart your computer. You will see the Boot Menu containing Win7. Click Maintenance, then click Boot Edit.
    Select Win7 and click Edit
    In the MBR Details on the right hand side is your partition table (LBA-0) for each drive
    In HD 0 (your SSD) there are 4 slots. If BIBM is there select it and click Clear
    You only want Win7 and Data so if any other slots are occupied, select and Clear
    Move Win7 into the 0) slot and Data into the 1) slot
    Click OK, OK again
    Done

    Now when you boot Win7 only your selected 2 partitions will be in Disk Management.

    For a Linux Boot you would have the below items in the MBR Details section of the Menu Item

    Linux
    Swap
    Data
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2015
  16. Snoop3

    Snoop3 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    Posts:
    474
    ok, ill have to think about. i've been told before about putting them in folders on a single partition but i just dont like things that way.

    am i limited to just 4 slots for each OS in the bootup menu? i saw that and thought maybe thats the answer but i was afraid to make a mistake.
     
  17. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Posts:
    8,649
    Location:
    NSW, Australia
    If you don't want a single data partition then create an Extended Partition with Logical Volumes. The Extended Partition will be in the MBR Details slot instead of Data.
     
  18. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Posts:
    8,649
    Location:
    NSW, Australia
    It is a limitation of MBR disks and has nothing to do with Windows or Linux. LBA-0 on each drive can only contain a maximum of 4 primary partitions.
     
  19. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Posts:
    8,649
    Location:
    NSW, Australia
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2015
  20. Snoop3

    Snoop3 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    Posts:
    474
    i think i understand this a little bit now. there are still some limitations that BiBM cant get past yet.
     
  21. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Posts:
    8,649
    Location:
    NSW, Australia
    Yes, BIBM lets you have lots of Primary Partitions but only 4 of those Primary Partitions can be in use at any one time.

    Edit... "In use at any one time by Windows or Linux". The TeraByte apps can see and access all the primary partitions on the drive. For example, you might have a partition that contains needed files but it's not in the partition table so Windows can't see it. There is an app called TeraByte Explorer (installed when you install IFW) which can access those files while you are in Windows. You can copy files out of a partition Windows can't see.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2015
  22. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Posts:
    8,649
    Location:
    NSW, Australia
    For later. You can setup BIBM to do single click restores. Click the Run icon and click your prepared restore script.

    Instead of initiating the restore in BIBM you can initiate the process in Windows. The computer will restart into BIBM and auto run the restore.
     
  23. Snoop3

    Snoop3 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    Posts:
    474
    i set up the extended partition and like 6 volumes off of it. only slight drawback i notice is that the names of the volumes seem to be limited to 8 characters - is this because i gave the extended partition too long of a name (i called it "Extended Data")? if i shortened the ext part name would i get more characters for the volume names?

    also, the copy/paste is very fast - i think it was working at about 4-6 GB/min. might be worthwhile if they had a verify option since its so quick. maybe its not necessary though?
     
  24. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Posts:
    8,649
    Location:
    NSW, Australia
    Snoop3,

    Creating a primary partition in BIBM on an EMBR disk. eg an Extended partition on your SSD. The primary partition label can have up to 15 characters. The logical volume label can have up to 8 characters. In Windows you can then edit the logical volume label up to 32 characters. That's OK to do on your SSD.

    In BIBM you can copy partitions using either of two methods. Copy/paste as you have used. Or IFD (Disk Imaging). IFD has the Validate option.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2015
  25. Snoop3

    Snoop3 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    Posts:
    474
    this worked - and then when i went back into BiBM it showed the longer volume label.

    thanks for all the help Brian.
     
Loading...