Question for Paul

Discussion in 'ten-forward' started by f_disk, Dec 13, 2002.

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  1. f_disk

    f_disk Guest

    Paul,
    Why would you move a topic that is related to Outpost? There are several "off topic" threads in here and as long as they relate to a security "product" they have always remained. Is it because one of the mods in question in the Agnitum forum thread also happens to be a mod in this forum? Just wondering?

    You may IM me if you wish........I'd like to know.
     
  2. Paul Wilders

    Paul Wilders Administrator

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    Hi f_disk,

    This isn't about OutPost: this is about how a forum/board is managed. Thus, we are not discussing security software here. This board is not into discussing board/forum management.

    The one and only reason is stated above. We will not tollerate inuendo here: root is a very trustworthy and knowledgeable moderator over on this board - and highly appreciated as well. We will not tollerate inuendo concerning connections between this board and any other board/forum either. Wilders.org is purely non-profit, as is this board.

    Why IM? I prefer this statement the be out and in the open - as it is now.

    Finally: since this issue doesn't belong over on the firewall forum either, it will me moved in due time to Ten Forward as well.

    regards.

    paul
     
  3. f_disk

    f_disk Guest

    Well actually I referring to Chris, but you said Root. Are root and chris the same persono_Oo_O

    Anyway, thanks for the response. I'll stay out of your "purely non-profit" boards.....(hint: Paul's board's).

    Sad that NOD32 is officially supported here, guess I'll have to call Larry McJanett directly with any questions.

    Do me a favor and delete my user profile........I won't be needing it.

    Have a great day!
     
  4. Judge Dee

    Judge Dee Guest

    Bye Bye!
     
  5. Paul Wilders

    Paul Wilders Administrator

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    f_disk,

    It's of no importance: the issue is board management. But for the record: no, root and chris are not the same person.

    Well, the reason for that surely can't be us taking the stand as we do.

    I fail to see the connection here - if your displeased, so be it.

    I'm sorry to hear so. Your membership will be ended as you wish within 48 hours.

    Thanks. Have a nice day as well.

    regards.

    paul
     
  6. CP

    CP Guest

    WTF?!?

    Im readin n readin and still dont see whats got this f-disk suddenlky so upset. Were his posts all deleted? Did he get told to shutup? Didnt look like it. He got answered and a post moved. WOW moved. You're right, movin a post is horrible. You should delete your acct now before anyone does worse to you.

    How silly can someone get?
     
  7. Smokey

    Smokey Registered Member

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    I think YOUR day is not so great....
     
  8. Loki

    Loki Registered Member

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    You can please all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you can't please all the people all the time. :D
     
  9. Judge Dee

    Judge Dee Guest

    More and more this board shows that its interest is security. Nothing more, nothing less. Good job.
    Mudraking we can get anywhere.
     
  10. :D

    For what it's worth, I'd like to say this is, by far, the best, more fairest, most intelligent, and straightforward general forum (Wilders, that is) I've been to yet..

    I'm use this forum because it's INFORMATIVE and HONEST! Even if I don't agree with everything stated here, I am at least willing to listen and try. If I change my opinion, I come out and say it. Every week, I generally learn something or get new information that really helps me out..

    I had Nod32 before I joined up with Wilders. It's very easy to come here and browse through the comments on a daily basis. Also, I think some of you know I bought TDS this week, and I think my questions were answered politely, and to the point.. Of course, I did'nt start a post anywhere looking to make an enemy..

    f_disk, I think if you had a better attitude, you probably would've gotten some more "politer" responses. What's the big deal, man? You weren't "deleted" or censored? Simply moved. People Are still going to read your comments. Take it easy, man...

    You have to understand a basic human rule,... "You get by giving.." There's no need to make accusations, and go after "Root"..... I don't even use Agnitum Outpost Firewall, (I used to) but I have used some of Root's advice on his postings in my firewall..Everyone's got their favorite software, and there is room to change..

    I think you're just all steamed up from what happenned at the Agnitum site.. You don't have to assume that what happened there will happen here.. Seems to me like your mind was all made up before you even wrote your first post here for that issue...

    Chill out man..

    Sidenote: Although I used to used Agnitum, I now use ZAPRO. I still think Agnitum is a very well written firewall.. The only reason I use ZAPRO is that Zonelabs fixed ZAPRO recently with updates, and I am just using the new version now. I miss the Agnitum forums, and I may go back.. Both Outpost and ZAPRO have their good and weak points. Who knows? I'm human...That might be the start of a new thread...
    "ZAPRO vs. Outpost Pro..."
    If it already hasn't started...
     
  11. f_disk

    f_disk Guest

    One last thing before I go:

    Don't know where all of you keep getting root from? I never mentioned him. In fact, it was Paul who first put that name into this thread, not I.

    --------------------------------------------------
    Quote:Is it because one of the mods in question in the Agnitum forum thread also happens to be a mod in this forum? Just wondering?

    The one and only reason is stated above. We will not tollerate inuendo here: root is a very trustworthy and knowledgeable moderator over on this board - and highly appreciated as well. We will not tollerate inuendo concerning connections between this board and any other board/forum either. Wilders.org is purely non-profit, as is this board.
    ----------------------------------------

    I even disputed this later on in the thread, yet some of you still can't seem to read....................
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Quote:
    Well actually I was referring to Chris, but you said Root. Are root and chris the same persono_Oo_O
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    If you have something to say, get your facts straight. I DIDN'T SAY IT WAS ROOT! So stop flaming me about it!
     
  12. LowWaterMark

    LowWaterMark Administrator

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    No problem, f_disk. I, for one, understood who you meant. And, for the benefit of others, in case they missed it above, that "Chris" person and root are different people. So, completely clear on that point here.

    Sorry to see you leaving the forums, although, perhaps you'd like to reconsider. You can, if you wish. Otherwise, I do wish you well in all your future Internet pursuits. Perhaps we'll meet up elsewhere, in time.
     
  13. DavidH

    DavidH Registered Member

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    Paul and company,

    I have not said so before, but I also Moderate over at Agnitum and have done so for about seven months now. I just wanted to get that out of the way. The issue with censorship was my fault as I am the one who deleted the threads and I take full responsibility and have openly apologized if that action offended any user. However, those threads were degrading into ridiculously hateful and offensive arguments. In fairness, I will say that both sides openly participated in this poor behavior, myself included. Finally, after over four users PMd me to take care of the constant bickering, I deleted the threads. I take responsibility for my actions and stand by them as it is a user support forum and serious issues like this really should be worked out privately between the parties involved. After several posts in a new thread which was allowed to perpetuate, I believe that the situation is a little calmer now. I hope it stays that way. I do not mind the users posting in other forums like this if that is what they want to do, but if you would look at the thread at Agnitum, I want to point out that the user posting the complaint was never specific of how his privacy was violated and in fact refused to be specific. Well, I have been doing some checking around and have a much better understanding of the situation now. As I understand it:

    1. The user wanted to use the Agnitum Outpost Migration Discount which requires a recipt from another competitor's firewall.

    2. The user needed an electronic copy of a recipt so that he could send it to Agnitum by e-mail to qualify for the migration upgrade.

    3. The user did not have a scanner to make an electronic image of the paper recipt and so requested chrisclu's help.

    4. The user FAXED the recipt to chrisclu who scanned the image and sent it back to the user by e-mail.

    5. The user then uses the image of the recipt to complete the migration transaction with Agnitum.

    6. I am not sure what happened next, perhaps the user became disappointed with the firewall and decided a refund was in order. By the way, Outpost has a Trial so there would be no excuse for not trying it first.

    7. The user has to go through his bank to get the refund.

    In other words, this user sent chrisclu personally identifiable information. I do not know about other users, but I would have gone to an office services shop and had it scanned for a dollar or two if I were that concerned about my privacy and did not have a scanner of my own. Since chrisclu was involved in the transaction by way of the FAX who the user voluntarily sent, chrisclu would have known this information. So, to say that Agnitum passed the private information along to chrisclu is ridiculous. The user passed it along himself. I want to add that at no time was ANY personally identifiable information given by any chrisclu about this person in the public forum or anywhere else. None at all. No names, no phone numbers, no addresses, no e-mail addresses, no credit card numbers/financial information (those were probably blanked out on the recipt FAXED to chrisclu like most credit care recipts), nothing of any consequence was publicly posted. So, in essence, no privacy policy was violated. I cannot really see where making an issue of this could possibly take us from here. Although, I think at least chrisclu is prepared to make a statement soon. And, I am pretty sure that Agnitum will also. But, knowing what I know now, I really do not see the point.

    f_disk, you have to understand that we will not allow the forum to degrade to a point where users cannot get support. NEVER. I don't like these situations any more than you do. There are no winners when arguments like this are started. But, considering the circumstances noted above, it is my belief that no harm was done or policies violated. And, since the user refuses to respond to my questions about the nature of the privacy violation, I have no choice but to base my opinions on the statements that I have received from other users who have followed the posts and comments from the Moderators. That is the best that I can do and the best anyone could do in this situation. I hope that you can understand and respect that. Also, I see no reason for you to give up your membership here over a situation like this. All conflicts can be resolved through constructive dialogue. We just have to keep things in perspective and try to find common ground.
     
  14. Paul Wilders

    Paul Wilders Administrator

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    Hi David,

    I've been aware you are a mod over on Agnitums board. At times, moderating isn't all that fun - as is the case now over there.

    We do hope and wish all will be sorted out as soon as possible, and you guys can pick up life as usual over there.

    I've made our stand on this issue quite clear - and that's all there's to it: this is a board management issue, and regardless wether or not something went wrong over on Agnitums board or not, it's Agnitums concern only. We will not allow this board turning into an open forum for issues having no relevance to security software or related issues.

    Wishing you all the best in getting this issue done and over with,

    regards.

    paul
     
  15. f_disk

    f_disk Guest

    content deleted - Forum Admin.

    Seems like I didn't make our stand clear enough.

    This board is not an open forum to discuss other board/forum management issues.

    f_disk, if you feel the need to post about this issue, do so over on the Agnitum board/forum.

    regards.

    paul
     
  16. Pieter_Arntz

    Pieter_Arntz Spyware Veteran

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    Hi gents,

    I am puzzled as to what in the above statement was not clear. I am closing this thread awaiting Paul´s further instructions.

    I do hope no new threads regarding this issue will be opened.

    Regards,

    Pieter
     
  17. Paul Wilders

    Paul Wilders Administrator

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    Well, we'll have to draw a line here.

    The contents from f_disk's latest post has been deleted - coming with a short and clear explanation.

    David, would you mind deleting your reply to the - now clean - post from f_disk, since it's hanging now.

    regards.

    paul
     
  18. f_disk

    f_disk Guest

    Well then why do you allow people to openly make statements and then not let anyone respond?....

    content deleted - Forum Admin

    f_disk, read my lips: this board is and will not turn into an open platform to discuss other board management issues. Period. I did ask you politely to post over on Agnitums board if you feel the need to post. Thus refrain from reviving this thread over and over the way you do over here.

    Thanks in advance.

    regards.

    paul
     
  19. DavidH

    DavidH Registered Member

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    Done Paul.....It will not happen again. I am finished with this issue.
     
  20. Paul Wilders

    Paul Wilders Administrator

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    Thanks David.

    regards.

    paul
     
  21. dragster

    dragster Registered Member

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    As the thread is not closed, and it appears that Agnitum is the Big winner here i would like to add a statement.

    Paul i don't believe you understood, or better couldn't understood properly as at the time you saw the OP forum most of the threads have been deleted. It was NOT soleyly one user, and it was not about how the board is operated. It was about the Company Agnitum, who claims to be a leader in security, claims to be a russian comapny who's headquarter is located in Cyprus with no Phone Numbers to contact, who SOLD their products to many people (including me)
    and is now leaving those people hanging in the dark. Since many month no updates to the software has been made, and no word about a new version is given, eventhough they admitted that the current version is buggy. No official replys from Agnitum have been made to anything, and some people even think that the Company agnitum is being operated out of a Garage somewhere in St. Petersburgh.

    So it was not because of how the Forum is being operated, it was in the beginning just to get information from official side, which out of pure frustration might have come across agressive. In my case i have to say, i AM upset, bought many licenses for our company and am now the dork.

    So questioning Agnitum in their own Forum should have been allowed but was not, unpleasent posts have been deleted.

    The bottom Line, again it was not how the forum is operated, it was about where does Agnitum go, did i spent my money wisely, and who am i actually trusting here, and can Agnitum be trusted and should other users at least be informed that they might throw their money away if they buy OP Firewall right now, as it is dead silent from official side, and no customer service is existand except the mods of the forum?

    Even now, one day later with all the mess on the Agnitum forum, no word from any officials. That makes you wonder.

    I know root is a mod here, so that post might get deleted too, but i needed to set some things straight.

    P.S. I have no clue who F_Disk is, but he did more harm than good
     
  22. f_disk

    f_disk Guest

    Paul,
    I'm truly sorry this got out of hand in your board. I wanted the word to get out what was going in the the other forum with peoples privacy. I guess we'll see who has the last laugh!

    Sorry.
     
  23. Paul Wilders

    Paul Wilders Administrator

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    Hello dragster, and welcome.

    First: your post will not be deleted - it will be addressed.

    With due respect, I have to disagree. This particular issue is solely between one Agnitum customer and Agnitum. In case other issues are at hand at one and the same time, that's beyond the specific and individual issue at stake in this thread.

    This is an enterily different matter. IMO anyone is free in choosing the software they want to use/buy, from any software vendor they want to. No one forces anyone to buy software X or Y. If only for marketing purposes, most software vendors propagate their products - Agnitum is no exception to the rule. There can be various reasons as of why a software company chooses to reside wherever the want to - taxes can be one of them for example.

    It's rather common software companies holding back as for when new versions will be released. I for one prefer a well-tested new version in favor of a buggy new version because a company had to deliver because of a time stamp. But once again: all this is beside the issue here at hand.

    I'm in the dark as of which questions need replying - as a matter of fact, it does not regard this board, nor the issue at hand on this thread. As for operating out of a garage: I don't think that's true. That said: years ago someone called Billy Gates started off in a garage... ;)

    It's up to anyone to decide wether or not to trust a software company. On a personal note, I for one have no reason to doubt the trustworthyness from Agnitum.

    Obviously, you are a concerned customer - and I can see no harm in that. Stating possible customers are throwing their money away in case they do buy an Agnitum product is one step too far. I'm convinced - for what it's worth - Agnitum can and will provide customer service as soon as possible.

    regards.

    paul
     
  24. Paul Wilders

    Paul Wilders Administrator

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    Well, we did a fairly good job as for damage-control ;). I'll take it, you will drop the subject over here.

    regards.

    paul
     
  25. f_disk

    f_disk Guest

    Paul,
    Can you lock this thread and move it with the other one.
     
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