[Public Beta] Returnil Virtual System Lite 2011

Discussion in 'Returnil Betas' started by Coldmoon, Jun 22, 2010.

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  1. Zarbi

    Zarbi Registered Member

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    I have been a happy user of Home Lux 2010 and before for years now I am trying the trial of RVS Lite 2011 for 2 weeks (since it might better fit into my netbook). But with both Virtual Mode / System Guard ON and Virtual Disk / Exclusion List OFF, when I switch from Drop Changes to Save Changes, the changes are actually not saved after reboot. I understand that the concept of the Lite version is different from Home Lux / Safe Pro, but shouldn't the Save Changes option behave the same way as before? Or is this some limitation of the trial version? What am I doing wrong? :'(
     
  2. korben

    korben Registered Member

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    ^ you're basically using a BETA mate

    Mike, any plans for FREE versions/ editions of your new line of products?

    appreciated
     
  3. Coldmoon

    Coldmoon Returnil Moderator

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    Hi Zarbi and welcome to the forums :)

    1. What OS?
    2. If you use exclusions and not the "Save all changes" option, is that data saved properly?
    3. What are the step by step details to reproduce your report?

    Mike
     
  4. Konata Izumi

    Konata Izumi Registered Member

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    I wish Folder exclusion will be available in free version.
    or you can cripple it so we (free users) can at least exclude 1 folder :D

    When are you planning to release RVS Lite 2011? o_O
     
  5. Coldmoon

    Coldmoon Returnil Moderator

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    That is a premium feature, but the File Manager has been upgraded to address the way files and folders were handled. The FM will now save all files and sub-folders in a selected folder (no longer need to add files separately to save the files within a target folder.

    This is for paid versions of RSS Pro 2011 and will not be available in the freeware version when it is released to replace the RVS 2010 line. For saving data to the real disk, you still have the Virtual Disk in the freeware edition...

    It will still be a while yet. We had planned to release it mid-August, but the schedule has drifted a bit due to the current Beta testing (3 betas going on at the same time). Please bear with us for a while longer...

    Mike
     
  6. Zarbi

    Zarbi Registered Member

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    As far as I understood Mike earlier, this BETA is practically final and therefore available for purchase, just not released as FINAL yet.

    Mike, thanks for you response. Please find my answers below:

    1. Windows 7 Starter

    2. Created new folder programsRVS on C: and installed e.g. Foxit / Notepad++ there. Added programsRVS to exclusion list. If I use exclusions, data in this folder are saved properly. Everything else linked to C: (desktop shortcuts, plugins in user folder) is lost, even with Save Changes enabled.

    3. Steps (exclusion list OFF, Virtual Mode / System Guard ON):

    - Installed Foxit Reader
    - With Virtual Mode ON (Always On) switch from Drop Changes to Save Changes
    - Reboot
    - After Reboot, Save Changes option still enabled but changes actually not saved

    Hope this helps to zero in on the problem ...

    I am using a Dualboot system with Ubuntu. Dualboot Windows XP / 7 HOME and Ubuntu with RVS HOME LUX 2010 on my Dell PC / notebook works fine as always (just a bit sluggish, this is why I'd prefer the Lite version).

    Zarbi

    P.S.:
    I just uninstalled the Lite version and installed the current RVS 2010 Home Free version from your website, same configuration - just to make sure that not some limitations of the Win 7 Starter edition might be the culprit. All changes are saved properly after reboot as it should be. Works fine, just a bit slower than the Lite version.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2010
  7. subset

    subset Registered Member

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    I miss some optional links between System Protection, Additional Partitions and System Guard.

    At least there should be options to start the Virtual Mode for all partitions at once and to start and stop the System Guard along with the Virtual Mode.

    From the RVS 2011 Questions thread, about TDSS Rookits.
    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=1708666&postcount=5

    If this is intended, shouldn't there be at least a hint about this layered approach at the GUI?

    Cheers
     
  8. Coldmoon

    Coldmoon Returnil Moderator

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    Hi subset,
    The Virtual Mode can be configured to start with Windows for non-system disks and partitions. To set this:

    1. In the extended protection tab (where the alternate drives are listed if detected) select the target drive from the list.

    2. Click Change

    3. A new window will open that includes an option to start the virtualization for this drive with Windows start.

    The System Guard is independent of the Virtual Mode. This means that you do not need to be virtualized to use the System Guard feature.

    Mike
     
  9. subset

    subset Registered Member

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    That's all very true, but what I mean is that the usability of RVS Lite should be improved.

    I have to wander around three tabs to enable Virtual Mode, Exclusion List, Additional Partitions and System Guard.
    There is no option to connect anything apart from Virtual Mode and IE start.

    I like RVS Lite, it is a straight forward, standalone system virtualization tool.
    But I think there should be some additional options for higher usability.

    Cheers
     
  10. Thankful

    Thankful Savings Monitor

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    It would be nice to be able to 'hover' over the Returnil icon in the task bar and get info on the status of virtualization and system guard similar to the full version.
    Also, any chance of changing the icon color to green when virtualization is on?
    Green usually means 'you are protected'. Thanks.
     
  11. pegr

    pegr Registered Member

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    The current colour scheme conforms to what is sometimes known as red/green computing.

    Quote: -

    "The overall security description is known as red/green computing. The classic idea is that participating users have a single physical computer with two separate computing environments. The known, clean, trusted computing environment is referred to as the green computer. The untrusted computing environment is known as the red computer. Users should use the green computing environment to do all their normal, trusted, computing (normal business work, e-mail, gaming, and so forth), and use the red computing environment to surf the Web, run new, untrusted programs, and the like. Most red/green scenarios have two separate computing environments within one physical computer, with a toggle button of some type to allow the user to switch between red and green environments. The red and green computing environments should never touch one another or only when the user wants to transfer legitimate data and/or programs from one side to the other."

    Link to article: http://www.infoworld.com/d/security-central/redgreen-computer-security-413?r=349?r=57

    I'm not saying that things should necessarily remain that way though; I expect that Returnil will consider changing this if enough people ask for it. I'm only saying that choosing red to represent the virtual environment and green the physical is not as illogical as it appears at first sight when considered in the context of red/green computing. :)
     
  12. Thankful

    Thankful Savings Monitor

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    pegr, Thanks for the info.
    The addition of the 'hover' would be nice.
     
  13. pegr

    pegr Registered Member

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    Agreed. :)
     
  14. ppan

    ppan Registered Member

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    I am using a SSD and would prefer to have the cache on a different drive.

    Is it, or will it be, possible to place the Cache (returnil.rvs) on a different drive from the System?

    If not possible, can I force it to use memory cache only?
    If I delete the cache file (where is it by default?), will it be recreated?
    How much memory would I typically need for the cache. I currently "only" have 4 GB (running WIN 7 64 bit).
     
  15. Coldmoon

    Coldmoon Returnil Moderator

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    Supported on non-system drives but not the system drive itself.

    The software will default to memory caching mode as a fail safe should the virtualization cache be deleted, damaged, or configured to a size of 0 MB.

    As this is a fail safe, it is not recommended for normal use, but will work.

    Memory = Ram + Disk. So setting the disk cache to 0 as described previously will not result in the elimination of disk writes, just changes where that writing will take place and also have the consequence that the changes tracked cannot be saved to the real system other than those made through the Exclusion feature.

    When in Memory caching mode, the disk portion is made within RVS itself so there is no specific file you can delete without causing more issues.

    Physical system requirements will not change. See the user's manual for your specific version of Windows:

    http://www.returnilvirtualsystem.com/files/rvs-lite-2011-manual.pdf

    Mike
     
  16. Stephen2

    Stephen2 Registered Member

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    Is the ability to add registry keys to the Exclusions List on the horizon?
     
  17. Stephen2

    Stephen2 Registered Member

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    Running the latest (I think) v2.1.5.5147, it seems that file exclusion isn't working on my file:

    "C:\Users\Stephen\AppData\Roaming\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\u3ootbyg.default\prefs.js"

    Which is the firefox preferences file (where NoScript stores whitelists, blacklists in this case).

    If you want more detail, or further tests let me know please.

    I'll continue to try this beta of Returnil for the next few days at least, it's close to what I'm after in a product of this category.
     
  18. Coldmoon

    Coldmoon Returnil Moderator

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    Hi Stephen2 and welcome to the forums :)

    This is being looked at in connection with automation as we go forward. It is low priority at the moment due to other development imperatives.

    What happens when you try to add the "Profiles" folder as opposed to just the single profile file? Also, are you turning the Exclusion feature on?

    Mike
     
  19. Stephen2

    Stephen2 Registered Member

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    Thanks, I've been a member for a long while, but stopped posting for ages. Have the security "bug" again...

    A shame... This (along with further defense again malware techniques) would make your Lite product very appealing long term. I hope that "low priority" still means it will happen some time.

    Exclusion definitely on, as I'm also excluding the Bookmarks using the same file exclusion method:

    "C:\Users\Stephen\AppData\Roaming\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\u3ootbyg.default\bookmarks.html"

    The bookmarks changes stick after reboot, which is good.
     
  20. Coldmoon

    Coldmoon Returnil Moderator

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    What happens if you change to the profile folder as I suggested?

    Mike
     
  21. Stephen2

    Stephen2 Registered Member

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    I've tried to recreate this but can't.. I still believe it was definitely an issue and perhaps there is some weird combination that causes file exclusion to not function intermittently..

    However, unreproducible from my end - which is good because in the end it means it's working for me now!

    A good product so far, from my point of view much preferable to System Safe 2011 which I find gaudy and inflexible.

    Requests for future revisions:

    1. Exclusion of registry keys
    2. Exclusion of multiple files more easily
    3. Enter/disable Virtual Mode without restart (even if changes are only rolled back at reboot)
    4. Virtual Mode on/off easier to change by tray icon
    5. Changes rolled back at logoff
    6. Disallow loading of drivers by all programs, not just system guard - this will prevent hardcore malware/rootkits from bypassing/ruining Returnil defenses
    7. Further development towards protection against bypass methods, other than drive loading prevention
     
  22. Coldmoon

    Coldmoon Returnil Moderator

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    Hi,
    Can you explain this one in greater detail? The Exclusion feature includes a convenience where "special folders" can be added with a couple of mouse clicks. Is this request substantially different than this?

    This may be possible in the future with the multi-snapshot feature, but that is still going to require a restart to apply regardless. Virtualization methods vary and each has its own set of pros and cons. The method we use is at the disk level so is not user specific (IOW - all for one, one for all). We plan to explore application level features in the future, but the technology requires some form of file system monitoring which can have performance implications...

    Mike
     
  23. Stephen2

    Stephen2 Registered Member

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    That special folders thing is good. But I mean, if I'm a LAN Gaming owner and I have a particular setup where I've arduously figured out the ~30 files I want to exclude - I don't want to be one by one selecting "Add file" copy/paste, OK, next... 30 times

    A similar concept I tried out recently is Fortes Grand Clean Slate. It had many advantages over Returnil 2011 Lite (from my POV) which should be explored so you can keep improving your product. One of them was "QUICK ADD" and you could basically copy/paste a bunch of files/folder names in to exclude all at once - very simple.

    You'd know this stuff better than me. As a simple user, I just liked that Clean Slate allowed me to LOG OFF, log back on and be reset, rather than rebooting.

    Returnil is playing nicer with SANDBOXIE at present which is why I've returned to it, but hope you continue to improve this product line.
     
  24. Coldmoon

    Coldmoon Returnil Moderator

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    Interesting suggestion. Something similar to selecting multiple files in Explorer using the CNTRL key?

    This is primarily due to the fact RVS/RSS use disk level and SBIE uses a form of application level virtualization (apples and oranges situation), When you put two application based solutions together (ref: CS and SBIE) you run into an apples on apples situation where conflicts and/or performance issues are more likely.

    Mike
     
  25. Stephen2

    Stephen2 Registered Member

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    Much simpler than that... Just opens up a "text area" and you can copy/paste in all the file names/folder names.

    Obviously these are then parsed and any that are found to be valid paths would be included.

    Any that aren't valid... I don't know what happens - probably best to spit out a warning "These ones haven't been added: xxxxxxx"
     
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