Problems with ATI 10 and Vista

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by Wiz33, Jul 11, 2007.

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  1. Wiz33

    Wiz33 Registered Member

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    I have been trying to clone my existing 120GB HD on my ASUS A8Js laptop with Vista onto a new WD 250GB via an external 2.5" SATA enclosure.

    The first batch of problems is ATI 10 4942 was very unstable in Vista, I have the laptop shutdown once during the clone process, Hung twice partway and many times that it just reboot and check a few thing and reported that it was finished (within 1 minute) while actually doing nothing.

    I check the forum here and someone suggested running ATI off a Boot CD, I tried that and it seems to work fine now. You can actually see the process as it clone the hidden, OS and Data partitions. But once done. I swap the drives and try to boot the laptop and it will get stuck on a boot loops right afterthe BIOS but before Windows. I have tried clone from the original HD in the laptop to the 250GB in the external case and I have tried with the original HD in the external case to the 250GB already installed in the laptop.

    I have also check and make sure that the 250 is wroking fine (at least as an USB storage device by attaching to another PC). I would appreicate any suggestion. TIA.
     
  2. GroverH

    GroverH Registered Member

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    One possibility would be to use the Vista Repair function.

    Another possibility would be to use manual resizing as suggested below by Acronis Support.
     
  3. Wiz33

    Wiz33 Registered Member

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    Yea, I would have tried a Vista repair except that all you get from ASUS is a Recovery DVD and not a Vista Install disk.

    I did use the Recovery DVD on the new drive and it works and the New drive will boot properly. Now that I know the new drive is set to Boot, I'll try to clone again and see.

    Update: Cloning again didn't work with manual nor auto resizing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2007
  4. jmk94903

    jmk94903 Registered Member

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    But were you able to use the Asus Recovery DVD on the drive and get it booting normally?

    In my experience, this is a one-time problem. After running the Vista repair, you can then backup the drive (TI image of the entire drive) and restore the image without problems. Also, if you are only recovering from a software problem, you can restore just the C partition, and it will boot fine.
     
  5. Wiz33

    Wiz33 Registered Member

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    Yea, Using the ASUS Recovery DVD with the new Drive installed in the laptop work fine.

    Are you saying that I should try backing up the old drive and then restoring it onto the new. I would have to get a hold of another external drive for that but I can give it a try.
     
  6. GroverH

    GroverH Registered Member

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    Yes! Follow my guides below and do a full disk backup and a full disk restore.

    Acronis will allow a backup of C to be temporarily stored on C during the backup.

    Perform the full disk backup (all partitions). Then remove the good drive and attach it as the usb external drive.
    Attach the new drive in its place. Then reboot using the TI Rescue Cd and do the restore the archive (all partitions) from the original drive (now external) as per guide.
    Afterwords, remove the usb drive and try a bootup.
    If successful, then use your vista disk manager to expand the free space from the 120 to your full size.
    Keep us posted as to your success or problems.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2007
  7. jmk94903

    jmk94903 Registered Member

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    Actualy, what I meant was that now that you have the new drive working properly, you will be able to back it up and restore it without any problems.

    Unless you have some reason to keep the old drive as it is, I would think you would put it in the USB box and reformat it to use for image backups of your new drive.

    GroverH's suggestion is a way to absolutely confirm that a backup can be successfully restored to a drive.

    However, if your system is running well and the new drive is completely used either as one larger partition than the original drive or with a second partition, I'd say you were done and ready to go on with work or play.
     
  8. Wiz33

    Wiz33 Registered Member

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    Well the whole idea with ATI cloning is that I won't have to install and configure all the programs again :p but I'll do it as a last restort. I think I'll give the backup/restore routine a try once I locate another external drive.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2007
  9. jmk94903

    jmk94903 Registered Member

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    I misunderstood you. When you said the Asus DVD fixed it, I thought you meant it had repaired the cloned drive so that the clone booted. We often find that a Vista restore needs to be repaired before it will boot. Unfortunately, this required a Vista install DVD not just an OEM image.

    Definitely try GroveH's instructions to create an image of the original disk and restore it to the new disk.

    It would be easier if you had a second extrernal drive, but you could create a second partition on the new drive and store the image there before restoring it to the first partition although this may not work depending on how many hidden partitions your original drive has.
     
  10. GroverH

    GroverH Registered Member

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    An extract from my guides:

    Cloning / Imaging Terminology: (extracts from Acronis Support postings)

    Clone Disk - When you use the "Disk Clone" tool, you effectively copy/move all of the contents of one hard disk drive onto another hard disk drive. This function allows you to transfer all the information (including the operating system and installed programs) from a small hard disk drive to a large one without having to reinstall and reconfigure all of your software. The migration takes minutes, not hours, but it is not generally used as a backup strategy.

    Backup - (Imaging) creates a special archive file for backup and disaster recovery purposes--which also includes new drive replacement. Single partitions or entire drives can be imaged for use as partition or drive replacement. Archive file can be created within Windows mode or from Acronis bootable Rescue CD. Archive files can be stored in folders and/or alternate drives or media.

    If interested in backing up your hard drive for the disaster recovery purposes, the Backup approach is recommended. Moreover, there are several advantages of creating an image over the disk cloning procedure such as: you can create an image without rebooting your PC, image creation can be scheduled for the particular point in time, Acronis True Image allows you to create incremental and differential images, image archive contains only the actual data and so it has a smaller size, images are ordinary files and so they can be stored on any type of the supported media, etc.​
    Perhaps I am mis-interpreting your remarks but it sounds like you have no plans to make regular ATI backups once your disk creation is completed? Say it isn't so.o_Oo_Oo_O
     
  11. Wiz33

    Wiz33 Registered Member

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    If I can get thee clone to work and stable, I'll probably back it up to a NAS but that's something for after I get everything to work.
     
  12. GroverH

    GroverH Registered Member

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    There has been several recent postings on this forum about problems with NAS which you may want to investigate.
     
  13. Wiz33

    Wiz33 Registered Member

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    Further results:

    I ended up buying a copy of Vista Home Premium and use it to repair the cloned disk, it seems to work (at least it boots) but nmerious program and video files have problems. Video files will play for a bit and stop and some program just does not work. One game claim wrong serial number and require a complete re-install while another MMO needs file varification and fix before working.

    I also bought a Seagate Free Agent external drive and did a full disk image backup and restore which still refuse to boot but once fixed with Window repair from the Vista install disk, seems to work finally. At least the video files are playing without hanging, will try some programs later.

    There seems to be a big problem with ATI 10 while working with an external drive and this is 2 out of 2 failure both in cloning and backup/restore. At first I thought it might be a problem with my first external enclosure (an i-Rock IR-9200). But having the same exact problem with another drive tends to point the problem back to Acronis.
     
  14. CorkyG

    CorkyG Registered Member

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    I posted a similar thread earlier today. I have had over two months of serious cloning with TI 10/4842 and there is indeed a problem in Vista.

    Here is the exact scenario:

    1. Create the TI Bootable CD.
    2. Have both source and target drives connected.
    3. Boot with the TI disk, select FULL function.
    4. Select Clone
    5. Select Manual
    6. Select Source Drive
    7. Select Target Drive
    10. Select Delete partitions on Target Drive
    11. Select Keep Data on Source Drive
    12. Proceed to clone.

    It all works just fine and at the end, a popup declares success. However! Neither drive will then boot. The Vista DVD is then used to boot and the one proceeds to repair the source drive. The problem is, according to the repair log, PARTITION IS NOT DEFINED.

    Then I swap the drives - and repeat the repair process. After that, I have two identical, bootable drives - which was my initial objective.

    I have been doing this for over 8 years - before TI was ever released using PowerQuest Drive Copy. TI has always been faster and easier to use until Vista and version 10/4942.

    What I don't understand is why TI 10 makes any entry or change to the Source drive. That makes no sense to me.

    We need a fix!
     
  15. Wiz33

    Wiz33 Registered Member

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    Yep. One thing I forgot to mention is that my original drive refuse to boot after I put it in the external case to clone with the new drive in the laptop. The good thing and runing Vista repair will fix the original drive but the whole idea with cloning is that I don't need an install disk.
     
  16. CorkyG

    CorkyG Registered Member

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    You need it to create the bootable CD. But, I agree, it is not necessary to install TI to do cloning operations. When using the bootable CD, the OS should really be irrelevant - Linux, XP, Vista, etc. It should not matter - it never has in the past. The real question is, why does the current cloning process write anything to the source drive?
     
  17. Wiz33

    Wiz33 Registered Member

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    Oh, I'm using a TI boot CD alright. Read my first post for more problems when I tried to run TI from Vista.
     
  18. CorkyG

    CorkyG Registered Member

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    I just made a startling discovery re cloning a Vista system. I used my old Version 8, Build 937 bootable CDR, and it worked perfectly on both my laptop and desktop. No repair necessary.

    So, for cloning, Version 8/937 rules! :)

    It could care less about Vista, Linux or any other OS. Cloning is OS independent.
     
  19. Wiz33

    Wiz33 Registered Member

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    Cool, I did start using TI from version 8 so I still have my serial. I'm DLing the 937 build now and will give it a try later. Thanks. (to think that I upgrade to 10 just because I thought it will be more compatible with Vista, What a jokeo_O )
     
  20. CorkyG

    CorkyG Registered Member

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    The download and key may be a Catch-22 unless you have a non-Vista system to install it on. Usually you can't create the full bootable CDR unless you are installed. And, if all you have is Vista, it may not install.

    I just happen to have a repository of all my old TI CDRs. I found two TI8/937s. That was a good version - handled SATA and RAID OK.

    Anyway - the solution is right here for Acronis Techs - in the next TI 10 Build, use the clone function from 8/937 with no changes. :)
     
  21. Wiz33

    Wiz33 Registered Member

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    No problem, I still have a couple other PCs running XP and I got it installed and created the bootdisk already. Just haven't gotten around to cloning again. Will probably give it a try tomorrow (just so I can get the partition to re-size the way I wanted).
     
  22. CorkyG

    CorkyG Registered Member

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    OK, Wiz . . . here's sequel. I tried it with version 9, 1st build 8567, and . . . it required a repair. What is repaired is exactly what is repaired in Version 10 "Partition = Not Found."

    That is what is getting screwed up from that version on with a Vista system. In XP it makes no difference.

    BTW - where did you find a version 8 to download that was installable?
     
  23. Wiz33

    Wiz33 Registered Member

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    I have always bought my TI directly from Acronis and I have always paid the extra bit for extended download so that once I logged in, I can get copies of the latest version 8, 9 & 10.
     
  24. CorkyG

    CorkyG Registered Member

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    OK, Wiz. I got it all done. Found my list of registered TI versions, 7 thru 10 along with all the keys. Got 8 downloaded again, and installed it on my main desktop after removing 10. I did that so I could prepare a flash media rescue drive. That worked perfectly.

    Since yesterday, I have performed three more perfect cloning jobs of my Vista laptop, and no repairs were needed with version 8.

    I have been trying to communicate this to Acronis Support, but they keep throwing me back in the red tape pile.

    They have a fix. Their cloning process is bad for Vista starting with version 9. 10 did not help at all. 8 works. All they have to do is see what was changed and fix it.

    How does one get Acronis Support to read any of these notes that offer solutions?

    No matter - I am leaving on a trip in the morning, so I'll be on the road for the next few weeks. I leave happy with a fully current duplicate drive for my T-60 thanks to TI-8!:D
     
  25. Wiz33

    Wiz33 Registered Member

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    Thank for doing all the reserach. Now at least we know there is a workaround for those with access to TI8. I just pity those recent new TI owners that bought TI10 justto use it on VIsta. The least that Acronis can do is to make a image of the TI8 bootdisk available to those user.
     
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