Problem: Two Wireless Routers & One Cable Modem

Discussion in 'other software & services' started by sosaiso, Feb 7, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. sosaiso

    sosaiso Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Posts:
    601
    Hi all,

    I have a complicated problem that I really can't wrap my head around. The issue is as follows:

    I have the following:
    1.) Linksys router which can hold a connection without any problems
    2.) A Belkin router which disconnects very frequently
    3.) One cable modem

    What I need is an unsecured network and a secured network that will work together.

    I have the following set up:
    Cable Modem --> Linksys (WPA2 Secured) --> Belkin (unsecured)

    The only reason that I am still using the Belkin is there are connection issues with other computers in my household with the Linksys. (Other people can get onto the internet through the Belkin, but lose the connection if connected to the Linksys.)

    The reason that the Belkin is coming after the Linksys is that the Belkin disconnects very frequently, and the Linksys is the only one that can hold a stable connection.

    I want the Belkin to be unsecured, and I am enabling WPA2 on the Linksys.

    I understand that this is not the safest solution as I should probably connect a secured network to an unsecured network, not as I have done (connecting a unsecured to a secured.)

    Are there steps that I can take to make sure that the unsecured "sub-network" does not access my secured network?

    I am reading about setting up a DMZ, but I am not really sure how I should set one up or if it will be effective in what I am trying to achieve.

    Thanks in advance for any help on this matter.
     
  2. Sully

    Sully Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2005
    Posts:
    3,719
    Step one, see if there is a firmware update for the belkin, that might fix disconnect issues.

    I will check back tonight. I might be able to help with the rest as well.

    Sul.
     
  3. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2004
    Posts:
    1,850
    Location:
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    Would a simple antenna be helpful with these connection problems?
     
  4. guest

    guest Guest

    You can plug multiple home routers in series but the problem is that you need to put the secured network at the end in order to be isolated. Here is a good link: http://www.grc.com/nat/nat.htm
     
  5. sosaiso

    sosaiso Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Posts:
    601
    Thank you all for the replies.

    I have attempted to update the Belkin, but the Pre-N router did not have any firmware updates. I did a quick google online, and it seems that the disconnects is a common problem. I also did a search for alternative firmware or updates. None were available for the model in question.

    I also do not think an antenna would help any as it has 3 very large antennas on the back. But I am presuming that those actually do what they look like they should be doing.

    I was actually hoping to follow this setup:
    http://www.ezlan.net/shield.html

    Very similar to the last picture in the link that guest posted.

    But the problem is that the Belkin (the router everyone can connect to) drops a connection every half hour or so. I've disabled all sorts of things such as uPNP and other superflorous features, but to no avail. If only the other household members could connect to the Linksys, then all my problems would be semi-solved.
     
  6. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2004
    Posts:
    1,850
    Location:
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    Hello sosaiso,
    What I meant to suggest is antenna's for the client computers. I got a external antenna for my desktop and it does make a difference with reception.
     
  7. sosaiso

    sosaiso Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Posts:
    601
    Hi wilbertnl,

    I apologize for the misunderstanding! I originally thought it was a reception issue as well, but I have put the router next to the laptops in question for the past day or so because I wanted to test out different connection strategies. Unfortunately, it still disconnects every so often even if they are 2 feet from one another. I can't understand why that happens. Perhaps it's just too old and gone through too much?
     
  8. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2004
    Posts:
    1,850
    Location:
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    I understand the confusion, maybe I wasn't really clear.
    If you still have disconnection problems at a short distance, than I would look into the drivers on the client pc's.
    Are you comfortable with booting a recent Linux live CD and see if that is able to sustain a connection?
     
  9. sosaiso

    sosaiso Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Posts:
    601
    Hi wilbertnl,

    I have tried booting into an Ubuntu LiveCD, but the disconnections still occur. Currently the laptops are running a range of Windows 98-Vista. Not sure if that helps any.

    I'm about to give up on having the optimal solution.

    I am assuming there is a security risk as there is an unsecured network connected to my secured network. Is there anyway to tell the Linksys router that the Belkin router is "evil" and should be a completely separate network?
     
  10. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2004
    Posts:
    1,850
    Location:
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    I'm out of options for you.
    Maybe enabling a MAC filter on the unsecure router would help you feel a little better about the situation?
     
  11. Searching_ _ _

    Searching_ _ _ Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2008
    Posts:
    1,988
    Location:
    iAnywhere
    Have you ever performed a firmware upgrade on this router?

    Things to try.
    Are the computers that use the belkin free of malware?
    Are there any vulnerabilities for your router, maybe metasploit.
    Download, disconnect, reset and install the firmware anyway.
    Try an old or previous firmware version.
    Try using OpenWRT or Tomatoe or starfruit, no wait smellyfruit. :D
    Maybe toast with mint jelly, replace with new router.
     
  12. AKAJohnDoe

    AKAJohnDoe Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2007
    Posts:
    989
    Location:
    127.0.0.1
    That is pretty much what I have. The ISPs DSL MODEM is also a router. It is set up in bridge mode with DHCP on and a user-specified subnet/range. An 802.11G wireless router is plugged into the DSL Modem/Router and it also has DHCP on, with a different subnet/range. The clients connect to the 802.11G router, mostly wirelessly, but there are 4 wired ports available as well.
     
  13. sosaiso

    sosaiso Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Posts:
    601
    Thanks all for the responses! (I've looked again at firmware updates, but AFAIK I've got the latest firmware, and there's no other one I can replace the manufacturer's firmware with.)

    After thinking and thinking and tinkering, I think I finally have a setup that might just work.

    Getting myself a third router.

    I plan on connecting NEW_ROUTER to Linksys, and Belkin to Linksys. That way they are completely separate networks and no one can really connect to Linksys to act as man-in-the-middle. A bit paranoid for a home connection, but I'm hoping that's the solution.

    I hope so because of the following logic (I'm not good at networking so please let me know if any of these assumptions is wrong.):
    1.) Linksys is the router that connects to the modem. Wireless will be off or WPA2 encrypted. The two other routers Belkin (unsecured) and NEW_ROUTER (WPA2 secured) will be connected to Linksys through two different ports.
    2.) NEW_ROUTER will treat Linksys and Belkin as the outside world/Internet.
    3.) Belkin will be on a separate network from NEW_ROUTER. Even if Belkin is compromised, NEW_ROUTER will not be.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2009
  14. Sully

    Sully Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2005
    Posts:
    3,719
    You could pipe your first router to a wireless modem (access point) for your wireless connectivity. Basic rule of routers, never introduce routing when a switch or hub can do the job instead. There can be headaches with connecting routers together. Not because it cannot be done, but many times the firmware just sucks.

    Sul.
     
  15. Searching_ _ _

    Searching_ _ _ Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2008
    Posts:
    1,988
    Location:
    iAnywhere
    Some Archived Belkin firmware
    Alternate Belkin Firmware

    DD WRT Supported Hardware

    Open WRT Supported Belkin Hardware A lot of detail about individual routers.

    I upgraded firmware on a router once and began experiencing connection problems. Searching google I found similar issues. One forum member did suggest to use a previous firmware version (dslreports, I think) and report to manufacturer.
    I used a previous firmware as suggested to another person and my connection issues went away. The current firmware might be buggy.

    For your setup, security is what it is. The weak link (the non-secure router) makes everything in front of it non-secure. But now that you have added a third router this allows you to isolate secure and non-secure as separate.
     
  16. sosaiso

    sosaiso Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Posts:
    601
    Interesting advice about switches. I will look into getting one of those instead. Am I right to presume that any ol' switch will do (i.e. this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16833122005)?

    Many thanks to Searching for the links. I will try to see if my Belkin is on that list of supported routers. I would love to get DD-WRT running on the thing and see if that fixes any disconnections (although I doubt it as I did a search using my model number and DD-WRT and nothing popped up, but who knows it might just take it.)
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.