Problem Cloning to Larger Drive

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by CorkyG, May 10, 2008.

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  1. CorkyG

    CorkyG Registered Member

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    Been using the clone function without a problem for several years. I am now trying to clone a 120 GB drive to a 250 GB drive, and the process works normally using the bootable Rescue Media.

    However, when I try to boot the new drive it starts and stops and starts and stops in the Windows loading process. (the three blue squares that move across the load window in XP Pro.) I tried several clonings - direct, via USB and the result is the same.

    I applied "fixmbr" using the XP Pro bootable disk, and that eliminated the stop and go of the three blue squares, But, it kept running squares by about 21-22 times, and then a quick BSOD (too fast even see) and a reboot.

    To test the process, I ran the clone job on another 120GB drive and it was perfect.

    So, is there some thing that needs to be adjusted in order to use a larger HDD? A BIOS check shows everything OK in the LBA department, etc, and the drive is correctly ID'd.

    It shuld not a drive letter problem because the cloned drive carries the same letter as the source drive. Besides, it works for a same size drive, but I think the problem in in the PROPORTIONAL transfer. There is one partition on the drive.

    BTW - I also tried it using AS IS and not worrying about the unallocated portion of the new drive. I can fix that later ionce the cloned part works.
     
  2. K0LO

    K0LO Registered Member

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    CorkyG:

    Are both drives IDE or both SATA; or is one IDE and one SATA?

    This might also be caused by a CHS geometry problem. Do you know how the BIOS reports the drive geometry (how many heads, in particular)? Most of today's PCs use a 255-head geometry but some, like my IBM laptop and some Compaq machines, use a 240-head geometry.

    A way around that issue (if that is the problem) is to create an image of the source drive while it is mounted internally. Put the image on a USB external drive or on a PC on the network. Then shut down and install the new drive in the PC in place of the old drive. Boot to the recovery CD and restore the image to the internal drive. In this way both the source and destination disks are "seen" by the BIOS in their correct geometry when data is both read from and written to the disks.
     
  3. CorkyG

    CorkyG Registered Member

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    Both drives are PATA, both are Seagates.

    I have been thinking about imaging to an external and then restoring from the imaged drive to the new drive. Nothing to lose there.

    BTW, I have tried this several times with both TI-10 and TI-11. Same result except TI-11 loads faster. :)
     
  4. CorkyG

    CorkyG Registered Member

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    Here's the drive geometrics:

    Source Drive (Master):
    Cyl 1024
    Head 255
    Sectors 63
    CHS Cap 8422 MB
    Max LBA Cap 120034 MB
    PIO 4
    UDMA 5
    ==========================
    Target Drive (Slave)
    Cyl 1024
    Head 255
    Sectors 63
    CHA Cap 8422 MB
    Max LBA Cap 259959 MB
    PIO 4
    UDMA 5

    It seems to me that both drives are the same except for max LBA capacity. Both are Seagate Barracudas. (PATA IDE)

    Please clarify the image technique. Is this a Backup/Restore item menu-wise, or Disk Utilities?
     
  5. jonyjoe81

    jonyjoe81 Registered Member

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    It's beginning to look a drive letter problem. Maybe the reverse clone they suggested can fix it.

    You need to verify the drive letters and rule that out as your problem before trying any other repairs. To get an accurate reading, the drive letters need to be read directly from the non-booting windows xp registry. The true image recovery cd will not show an accurate drive letter readout, same with the bartpe. I tried both in my tests and each showed my system drive as c: even when it was something else.

    Even though you only have one partition, I've encountered drive letter problems in such a configuration.

    You can see if the below demo can read your drive letters. The utility doesn't work on all the latest computers, but if it does work on yours it will give you an accurate registry readout.

    http://www.freedownloadmanager.org/downloads/JustBoot_Boot_Corrector_38938_p/
     
  6. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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  7. K0LO

    K0LO Registered Member

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    Backup/Restore.

    I think Brian is on the right track with his suggestion.
     
  8. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    jonyjoe81,

    This could explain why you have so many problems with drive letters. Your OS isn't on the C: drive.

    Dan Goodell says...

     
  9. DwnNdrty

    DwnNdrty Registered Member

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    I think you've cracked it Brian. :thumb: Why on earth would one want to change the booting drive to be other than C!! It's like trying to put your left boot on your right foot - sure you can force fit it, but at what price!!
     
  10. jonyjoe81

    jonyjoe81 Registered Member

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    I always install windows xp on the c: drive, on my tests I "purposely" changed the drive letter to h: drive to "simulate" a drive letter problem. During bootup the computer failed to boot as expected, thats when I proceeded to read the drive letters by booting up with true image recovery cd/bartpe cd and both showed windows xp as c: drive even though it was h: drive. Some people might overlook the drive letters as a problem by relying on what they see from a true image recovery cd.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2008
  11. CorkyG

    CorkyG Registered Member

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    That is not the problem. The drive letters do not change - they are C and D. If I clone to a same size HDD, the problem does not exist. Only when going to a much larger drive - (2X+>)

    Thanks for the response. Will rat hole that utility you linked to.
     
  12. CorkyG

    CorkyG Registered Member

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    Did that yesterday afternoon. I have two of these Seagates, both brand new. They work fine and test AOK.
     
  13. CorkyG

    CorkyG Registered Member

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    Thanks! I am just about to do that with two drives in external cases. One contains a perfectly running, current clone of the XP Pro system (C & D) drive, 120 GB. The other contains a blank, but formatted 250 GB drive with matching partitions. Will do this on a different machine using the bootable Rescue CDR.

    Will post the result when I finish.
     
  14. K0LO

    K0LO Registered Member

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    CorkyG:

    If the problem is related to the geometry of the target PC BIOS, then what you are about to do will fail because both disks are in external USB enclosures where they will be seen as 255-heads.

    I would first try the procedure in post #2.

    In your post #4 were both disks in the external USB enclosures or were they in the "final resting place" as internal drives in the target PC?
     
  15. CorkyG

    CorkyG Registered Member

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    The original source drive was in its normal internal position - that was so the system would boot and load XP.

    The replacement drive was in an external case. that was not connected until after XP was loaded and standing by.

    I had this problem once before when trying to go from an 80 GB drive to a 160. It would not work, but the 120 did.

    It would be interesting to see if it would go from the 120 to a 160. Seems like going 2X larger or above is a problem.
     
  16. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    I guess you did this with Drive Corrector. You deliberately created an error. That's a good test.

    However, why do you have so many drive letter issues that aren't deliberate? I'd like to state that experienced users never have drive letter issues. That problem is due to incorrect technique.
     
  17. CorkyG

    CorkyG Registered Member

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    Sequel: . . . The geometry of all drives confirmed with then connected internally, and the BIOS showed the same geometry as posted above.

    I still have not tried the reverse backup/restore - that will be for another time. It takes too long - at least 3 hours using normal compression just for the backup phase alone.

    Based on past experience, I am somewhat convinced that the problem is too big a jump in drive size. Will see what happens when going from a 120 to a 160 GB Yeah - have tried the "AS IS" way also leaving a large unallocated space on the target drive. That can be adjusted later, but that didn't work either.
     
  18. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    CorkyG,

    I'm not sure if you have done this as a test, on the 250 GB HD. Put a WinXP installation on the HD. Full 250 GB partition and see if it installs OK.
     
  19. jonyjoe81

    jonyjoe81 Registered Member

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    The problem isn't going from a small to large hard drive, I do it all the time. Usually when I restore from a small partition to a larger partition I have no drive letter change problems. I've gone from a 40 IDE to a 500 SATA with no problems.

    More than likely, the source hard drive windows xp has seen the hard drive where it's going to be restored and has that hard drive ID somewhere in the registry. I've read about that being a possible cause of drive letter problems. But also your hard drive is a multi partition drive, that might be a problem there too.

    I've tried the bartpe with the "savepart" plugin to see if I could use that to fix a drive letter problem. First it was able to identify the incorrect drive letter where all the other programs I tried couldn't, but as far as changing it, that is more complicated. The program is not user friendly. But the bartpe also allows for "regedit" to be use, that might be a more easier option.

    If you do a clean install of windows xp on your 250gb as suggested , that should definitely fix the problem. But I still think the problem is fixable without the clean install or even the reverse clone.

    Something that you might try is do an image backup of each partition, c: and d:. Next partition your new hard drive manually. On the new drive make the c: partition at least 1gb larger than the source drive. Next just restore each partition seperately.

    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=174958
     
  20. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    jonyjoe81,

    Could you supply a download link for that plugin? Savepart is a DOS program and doesn't run in BartPE. As far as I know.
     
  21. jonyjoe81

    jonyjoe81 Registered Member

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    I might have got the name wrong on the plugin. The cab file when downloaded reads "savepart" but the actual name is "partition saving" when used within the bartpe. It can prove useful for verifying the drive letters from the windows xp registry, tested by me and certify to work for that function.

    http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/tools.htm
     
  22. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Savepart and Partition Saving are the same app.

    I downloaded Savepart from Goodell's link. It's a DOS file. I tried it in BartPE and as expected, it doesn't work because it's not a Windows file.

    Could you outline what you did with the file?
     
  23. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    My apologies. There is a Windows version. I'll check it out.
     
  24. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

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    Hello CorkyG,

    Thank you for choosing Acronis Disk Backup Software.

    We are sorry for delayed response.

    Please make sure computer BIOS can work with the drive correctly. The best way would be trying to install Windows XP on it, as suggested by Brian K in the post #18.

    Could you please collect some information to let us investigate the problem thoroughly?

    Please create Acronis Report in the way described below with the target drive connected in boot position:

    - Download and run Acronis Report Utility;
    - Select the "Create Bootable Floppy" option;
    - Insert a blank floppy disk in the A: drive and proceed with creation of the bootable floppy;
    - Boot the computer from this diskette and wait for report creation process to finish;
    - Collect the report file from the floppy.

    Then submit a request for technical support. Attach all the collected files and information to your request along with the step-by-step description of the actions taken before the problem appears and the link to this thread. We will do our best to investigate the problem and provide you with a solution.

    Thank you.
    --
    Marat Setdikov
     
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