Prefetch is Supposed to Be Super Important for Performance, Right?

Discussion in 'other software & services' started by HandsOff, Feb 9, 2007.

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  1. Mastertech

    Mastertech Registered Member

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    STOP MAKING **** UP! No it does not! Prefetching in no way REDUCES performance. Please prove that disabling prefetching reduces your CPU and RAM usage and improves performance in ANY way. I am so sick of this guessing. Did you read ANY of the links I posted?
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2007
  2. Mastertech

    Mastertech Registered Member

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    OK a DEVELOPER OR QA person? Are you serious? What the hell does that have to do with ANYONE here?

    Prefetching has nothing to do with security! Nothing to do with browsing, cookies, your browsing history ect...

    How OLD? You can not spare 5MB to double the speed of your application and Windows loads? Tell me another one.

    Of course if you are intent on being ridiculous have fun! Ask anyone if they would like to spare 5MB to improve application load times by 30 seconds. Actually you already are since it is ENABLED BY DEFAULT!

    These are the weakest most pathetic arguments I have ever heard. Yes Lu Chin if you must save 5MB vs cutting your application and windows load times in half. Yes that is your choice! Just make it CLEAR to those who you talk to that you choose to save 5MB of disk space and wait twice as long for windows and your applications to load.

    These have NOTHING to do with Prefetching. Prefetching does NOT use more RAM and CPU. Disabling prefetching is not only illogical it is based on not understanding how it works and nonsensical assumptions.

    I highly suggest anyone reading this discussion to read all the links I provided and to understand how this works and NOT to listen to a single one of the people posting in this thread who have made misinformed statements about a technology they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

    YES if you must save 5MB of disk space and do not care if you reduce all your application and windows load times by half, please feel free to disable prefetching. I am sorry but some people are simply helpless.
     
  3. Pedro

    Pedro Registered Member

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    Re: WHY WOULD YOU WANT YOUR APPLICATIONS TO LOAD SLOWER?

    This is your main problem from the beginning. Know it all.

    Certainly possible to control legit programs at least. Not talking about leaktests here.
    Not from my experience and most here that reported. Never caught anything, whereas SAS, AVG AS and A-Squared have, and are better overall imo - note the IMO.
    Doesn't matter. FF and Opera are better, period.
    Since a service is there for some reason;) , no examples are needed. It's a general observation, and logical. But i'm sure he'll reply on all this.
    "on crack"... Please step back and think about what you just wrote.
    Personally i thought it was a good site, but the 'Linux being more vulnerable than XP' part made me think twice. Nowhere do you provide reasoning, and your links contradict you. I'm sure it was a good laugh for many, thanks for that anyway.
     
  4. Mastertech

    Mastertech Registered Member

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    Prefetching Reference

    Please do not waste any more of my time or anyone else reading this thread if you are not going to take the time to understand how this performance improving feature in Windows XP works. That BTW is enabled by default for a reason:

    MICROSOFT ARTICLES:

    Windows XP: Kernel Improvements Create a More Robust, Powerful, and Scalable OS

    Kernel Enhancements for Windows XP

    Windows XP Performance

    Benchmarking on Windows XP

    Windows XP Professional Resource Kit

    Fast System Startup for PCs Running Windows XP (DOC)


    EXPERTS:

    Ryan Myers - Windows Client Performance Team

    Misinformation and the The Prefetch Flag


    Ed Bott - Author Widows XP Inside Out

    One more time: do not clean out your Prefetch folder!

    Beware of Bogus XP Advice

    Tip of the day: Don’t clean out the Prefetch folder


    Mark Russinovich - Author Windows Internals

    Windows Internals (Book)
     
  5. Mastertech

    Mastertech Registered Member

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    Re: WHY WOULD YOU WANT YOUR APPLICATIONS TO LOAD SLOWER?

    I only talk about things I know and since no one here knows anything about Windows XP Prefetching that is not my problem how I come across.

    On a Windows XP machine running as an Admin it is impossible to control outboung access = fact. And yes that means a leaktest. Read the source link of the XP Myth page.

    No offense but so far what has been reported here is a complete misunderstaning and misinformation about a clearly well documented and performance enhancing feature of Windows XP = Prefetching. Are SAS, AVG and A-Squared completely free? Windows Defender has caught many things on the thousands of client machines I have it installed on. Windows Vista comes with it for a reason. The fact remains my clients do not have reoccuring malware infections once setup with the basic security that I outline. But please save the security discussions for another thread.

    Nope. But please save this for another thread.

    Please state where the services that are recommended to be disabled will cripple Windows. Yes they are there for a reason some of which apply only on a network with a Domain. Or for remote access or other features the average user will never use.

    This is just absolutely absurd talking with people who flat out lie about what is on the page. Please for one minute let your Linux bias be separated from the other information on the page. If that is possible. This is not about the Linux Security Myth. If you want to discuss that start a new thread this is about Windows XP Prefetching.

    So far your whole last comment disputed nothing. Never in my life have I had a more insane debate about something that has overwhelming evidence and documentation. Now it is very clear why so many tweak sites exists online, for some of the suckers here.

    FACT = I am the only one providing documentation (mostly from Microsoft) and testing procedures to prove what I am talking about.

    Anyone who keeps arguing with me about Windows Prefetching not only has absolutely no idea what they are talking about but have also never tested it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2007
  6. Bubba

    Bubba Updates Team

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    Folks,

    If this discussion is to continue....it will do so without the personal attacks, inneuendos, semi-vulgarity....etc. For those that seem to be at a rock and hard place with each other....agree to disagree and move on. Shoving beliefs and\or facts down each others throats is not going to cut it. Trimming the fat is the last recourse but it is an option.

    Thanks,
    Bubba
     
  7. pugmug

    pugmug Registered Member

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    Seems to me this prefetch thing has not only been beaten to death but into the dust.Mastertech,as I took a quick look at you site may I ask what are your qual's as you only seem to link to other's work.Have you written any papers yourself,or are you just rank and file?
     
  8. Mastertech

    Mastertech Registered Member

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    I completely understand Bubba but what I have stated about Prefetching is not a belief but a well documented fact. How software works is not a belief. Software can only work one way and that is how it is programmed. I have had extensive discussions with members of the Windows Client Performance Team and provided all the links, sources and testing to back up everyone of my claims. I have yet to see the same from anyone disputing it. Actually only one person has even attempted to test it.
     
  9. Bubba

    Bubba Updates Team

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    I am not doubting that and I am not agreeing with that which is why I said "beliefs and\or facts". My main point to no one in particular but To All is to tone it down a bit and the discussion will continue otherwise those that wish to not discuss respectively will find they no longer get to participate in this discussion.

    Bubba
     
  10. Mastertech

    Mastertech Registered Member

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    I work for a PC OEM and have worked in IT for over 15 years and dealt with thousands of clients and systems. My job is more technical and research oriented than written. But I do not think a paper written by myself would hold any more credibility if all the papers written by Microsoft and the others such as Mark Russinovich I link to are not to be believed.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2007
  11. pugmug

    pugmug Registered Member

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    Answered my question.
     
  12. lu_chin

    lu_chin Registered Member

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    As I say, you can care about all those extra seconds of boot time and application load time, why someone like me cannot save even 500 KB because I prefer to? 5 MB is nothing to you and 30 seconds is nothing to me. I am watching TV while my notebook is rebooting. And developers or QA persons are not anyone who may try all sorts of things? Does it have to apply to everyone in the universe?

    Prefetch uses some disk space no matter how small it may be. I prefer a new extra KBs or MBs from here and there. Period. Just as I may prefer applications that use less RAM, despite I may have plenty of memory on my PC. Just like my browser cache by default uses 5% of my hard-disk space and I turn it down to 0%. Enabled by default is one thing, I can recover a little by disabling it. What right does anyone have to decide yes or no for me or anyone else?

     
  13. Pedro

    Pedro Registered Member

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    I'm not talking about prefetching, merely responding to your post.
    I'm not talking about leaktests, i just said so. Don't ignore what i'm saying, if you do this is a monologue, not a dialogue.
    None taken so far. I don't argue about the prefetching. I previously stated that i leave it alone.
    Freeware or not is not the question. Being better is. Vista comes with it, of course, it's the same company;)
    I will. My last reply on this, i apologise for being off topic, but i'm replying to your post.
    I didn't lie. I re-read your site again, and textually you don't lie, but you misinform. Number of vulnerabilities clearly hide the important thing: what kind of vulnerabilities.

    Or put it another way: the obvious most common statement is "Linux is safer than Windows", almost never "The Windows Platform has more Security Vulnerabilities than the Linux/Unix Platform." , because that doesn't say anything by itself.

    ~removed un-necessary verbage....Bubba~

    Bubba, do whatever you need, i'm sorry. Delete it if you must, i won't reply in this thread again.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 28, 2007
  14. Bubba

    Bubba Updates Team

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    off topic posts removed and as requested above twice....chat about the Prefetch discussion and not the individuals. As this is the third request....any further moderator actions will be done so without further comment.

    Bubba
     
  15. Mastertech

    Mastertech Registered Member

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    Yes of course Lu Chin if you with to save 5MB of disk space no one is stopping you. :rolleyes: Just make sure that if when you state this to others you are making it very clear that you are saving 5MB of disk space and all your applications and windows boot times are cut in half. I am assuming you must have disabled prefetching in some way without knowing how it really worked and are now desperately trying to defend it.

    Lu Chin who was the developer here who asked this question about Prefetching? It would be of little interest to anyone outside of disk defragmenter developers or someone troubleshooting a performance issue in a lab environment. Which applies to no one here.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2007
  16. LowWaterMark

    LowWaterMark Administrator

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    This thread is really just going in circles now, so I'm going to "stick a fork in it" and call it done.

    There are plenty of facts and opinions posted above regarding Prefetch, so much so in fact, that I'm declaring a 2 week moratorium on any new Prefetch related postings here at Wilders Security.

    Got anything related to Prefetch? Then read the above, but please don't post about it. :D
     
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