Prefetch is Supposed to Be Super Important for Performance, Right?

Discussion in 'other software & services' started by HandsOff, Feb 9, 2007.

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  1. Mastertech

    Mastertech Registered Member

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    Irrelevant

    I combined the replies.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2007
  2. Mastertech

    Mastertech Registered Member

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  3. Mastertech

    Mastertech Registered Member

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    Bad idea

    Oh you do, you just don't know that you are wasting your time when Windows and all your applications take up to twice as long to load. Renable Prefetching and leave it alone. That means setting the EnablePrefetch value to 3 and setting the Task Scheduler Service to Automatic.

    There is nothing troublesome about it. You turned it off because you do not understand how it works and now have severly reduce your performance and wasted your time.

    Indexing has nothing to do with Prefetching.
     
  4. Mastertech

    Mastertech Registered Member

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    Laptops Rarely Go Idle

    No the problem on laptops is that they rarely get a chance to go idle (they go to reduced power states or people turn them off) Disabling Prefetching or "Adjusting" it in ANY way will REDUCE performance. I suggest forcing the prefetch optimization manually instead of taking Antartica's bad advice:

    Go to "Start", "Run", Type Rundll32.exe advapi32.dll,ProcessIdleTasks. This can take 10-15 minutes to run but no notification will be given when it is finished. You will notice increased Harddrive activity while it is running wait until this stops. When this is finished in the "Run" box Type defrag c: -b.

    I also frequently find that prefetching is broken in some way on many people's machines.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2007
  5. Mastertech

    Mastertech Registered Member

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    Everyone benefits from Prefetching

    Even on high end PCs you will still see a difference with slow loading applications like large games. The point is Windows XP Prefetching only IMPROVES performance so leave it alone.
     
  6. Franklin

    Franklin Registered Member

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    Windows defrags your disk for optimal performance using the layout.ini file that resides in prefetch.

    And even Perfectdisk 7 uses and takes control of the layout.ini file to do it's job.

    Ccleaner can be set to clean the prefetch which will only remove items that have not been accessed in two weeks.
     
  7. Mastertech

    Mastertech Registered Member

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    Do not clean the folder with CCleaner.

    It supposedly removes prefetch files that have not been accessed in two weeks based on the NTFS last access date. However if you disable this, CCleaner will delete the entire folder! Which is ridiculous. But lets forget that for a minute. Why would you want to remove a prefetch file for a program simply because you have not used it in two weeks? What happens when you do use it? Why would you want it to load slowly? That doesn't make any sense. Windows can manage the folder just fine and CCleaner does nothing but make the situation worse with prefetching. Just leave the folder alone and do not "clean" it manually or with CCleaner. The only proper way to clean the folder would be based on whether something was installed or not but the only reason to do this would be to reclaim next to no disk space. There is no reason to worry about cleaning the folder Windows XP take perfectly good care of the folder. There are many other things that consume excessive amounts of disk space like your Internet Cache.

    CCleaner Cripples Application Load Times
     
  8. Franklin

    Franklin Registered Member

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    Well my point being that I run a thinned out XP pro using Bold Fortunes guide and any useless file is just that - useless.

    Now why would you want to disable last access date as many defraggers use access dates for proper defragmenting.

    From your link:
    Of course you will if you completely erase everything but if a prefetch item hasn't been used in two weeks it is probably an installer or uninstaller and won't require prefetching again.

    Also how many people realise that disabling Task Scheduler in services disables prefetching.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2007
  9. Mastertech

    Mastertech Registered Member

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    Oh no not Bold Fortune

    Oh god, Bold Fortune doesn't comprehend half the things he recommends let alone the files that you don't need. Between all these people giving bad advice I am surprised anyone's system works properly at all.

    Some do but people disable it because it improves performance by eliminating the overhead of updating each file with the access date.

    So you are guessing? See that is the problem. "Probably" is not definitive and if you do delete a prefetch file for an application you do have, it will load slower when you do launch it. Does this make any sense? The folder is ridiculously small, usually less than 5MB. Worrying about a prefetch file less than a few KBs for an application that is no longer present is a waste of time.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2007
  10. Mastertech

    Mastertech Registered Member

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    Bold's Bad Advice...

    Here is Bold Fortunes "Genius" Advice:

    Bold Fortune's Favorite (Bad) "Tweaks"

    REALITY = Does nothing in XP. XP Myths

    REALITY = Cripples Windows and Application load times. XP Myths

    REALITY = Does nothing to improve performance on Windows XP. XP Myths

    REALITY = Absolute waste of time and does nothing for performance. XP Myths

    I can go on but you get the picture. This is the typical google search for "Windows XP Tweaks" and put them on one page nonsense. The guy doesn't even do five minutes of research before offering all manner of bad advice.
     
  11. zopzop

    zopzop Registered Member

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    Re: Laptops Rarely Go Idle


    well all i know is before disabling the prefetch, it took almost 2 minutes from the time the blue "welcome" screen faded to when i could actually do something with my pc. with prefetch disabled using the program linked to by Antarctica, it takes all of 30 seconds to get from the welcome screen to me using windows.

    just for the sake of testing, i took your advice and re-enabled prefetch and typed those commands into the run box. i'll see how my pc performs after 48 hours.

    one question, how would prefetching get broken on a person's pc?
     
  12. Franklin

    Franklin Registered Member

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    I'll reiterate so as you can understand a bit better.

    "I use Bold Fortunes XP slimming guide"

    I'm talking about useless files and you come back with useless tweaks.

    From XP myths:
    What a drama queen.
    "Cripple" meaning what.Load time goes from a millisecond to two milliseconds.Most people that do disable prefetch notice no "crippling" of app launch.

    Slightly slower app launch more like it and it only happens once as an apps pf is recreated on launch.
     
  13. Mastertech

    Mastertech Registered Member

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    Prefetching Optimization

    Applying some bad tweaking advice, using a "tweaking" program or using an nlite install of XP with components ripped out. You can repair prefetching on all systems except those where it was broken do to nlite removing a critical component. Also if the prefetching files get corrupted this can also slow the boot but they will not get corrupted unless something is wrong with your system such as overclocking, defective components such as RAM or your HD, using FAT32 instead of NTFS and other reasons.

    1. Run the Prefetcher Fix

    2. Reboot Windows two times (this is important and cannot be skipped) and confirm there is an NTOSBOOT-B00DFAAD.pf in the prefetch folder (c:\windows\prefetch\). The date and time modified should be from today.

    3. Go to "Start", "Run", Type Rundll32.exe advapi32.dll,ProcessIdleTasks. This can take 10-15 minutes to run but no notification will be given when it is finished. You will notice increased Harddrive activity while it is running wait until this stops. When this is finished in the "Run" box Type defrag c: -b.

    It is not necessary to do this again unless something has been added or removed from the boot sequence (Drivers, Startup Applications ect...) Now this is all done automatically every three days unless prefetching was broken, these instructions force this all to happen now so you can see the results immediately.

    When you time Windows you must use a stopwatch and time from pressing the power button to the desktop. Before and after the optimization.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2007
  14. Mastertech

    Mastertech Registered Member

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    Yes to show how little he knows. Anyone like this should not be giving advice to anyone.

    What application Windows Calculator? How about On Quake 4? Please try to comprehend that different applications load at different speeds. Some take an excessively long time to load. Most people don't know they are infected with Malware does that make it a good idea to do? People cannot notice load times, they need to time them. The human brain is not an accurate timing device. When we look at a desktop screen as we wait for an application to load we have no idea how long it is really taking. That is why you need to TIME IT WITH A STOPWATCH. I cannot comprehend why people would want to SLOW DOWN their system? Why so you can defend not understanding how something works? Or maybe to defend doing something idiotic to your computer that made it slower? Oh and when timing an individual application load you need to reboot Windows in between timings to get accurate results.

    BTW the Bad Bold Advice I was referring too was to disable Prefetching thus CRIPPLING Windows and all application load times.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2007
  15. Franklin

    Franklin Registered Member

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    OK,does using Ccleaner to clean old prefetch data result in a "crippling" of the most often used applications launching.

    No ifs or buts.

    No it doesn't and the author of that "crippling" hysteria inducing XP myths site should should state as such.

    Millions of people use CCleaner and it is a great app.When advice that puts Ccleaner and "cripples" in the same sentence it causes unnecessary worry for some.

    Don't know why you have to put so many links in your replies pointing to that dumb XP myths site.
     
  16. tlu

    tlu Guest

    Mastertech, congratulations for your postings! The other posters here in the thread didn't want to believe me - I hope that you are more convincing :D
     
  17. Franklin

    Franklin Registered Member

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    And how many times will this happen before prefetching occurs again?

    As for putting Bold Fortune down and all the hard work he has put into his slimming XP guide I think a much more appropriate handle for your "think you know it all self" would be Masterbates!
     
  18. farmerlee

    farmerlee Registered Member

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    Yeah i never noticed much of a difference with it enabled or disabled, i usually have it disabled or completely removed from the install.
     
  19. Mastertech

    Mastertech Registered Member

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    Yep, since your load times are cut in half. I would call that crippling.

    If telling people the reality of doing something that negatively effects their performance is "unnecessary worry" than what should we do lie? Such a "great" app yet the author is COMPLETELY clueless about how Windows XP prefetching works. If anything the author is spreading MASSIVE misinformation by suggesting this folder should be cleaned for ANY reason least of all in the completely incorrect way he attempts to. It took him months to move the setting from the defaults even after proving it reduced performance and he still refuses to add a warning to it.

    Why is it dumb? Because it debunks all your BS? You mean the site that is backed up completely by source links? Sometimes multiple ones? Ones usually going to Microsoft knowledgebase articles?

    Answer some questions:

    1. Why do you want to slow you system down?
    2. Why would you want to cripple the load times of applications that you have installed but have not launched in two weeks?

    Oh so you want more links? All you had to do was ask!

    MICROSOFT ARTICLES:

    Windows XP: Kernel Improvements Create a More Robust, Powerful, and Scalable OS

    Kernel Enhancements for Windows XP

    Windows XP Performance

    Benchmarking on Windows XP

    Windows XP Professional Resource Kit

    Faster System Startup for PCs Running Windows.doc

    EXPERTS:

    Ryan Myers - Windows Client Performance Team

    Misinformation and the The Prefetch Flag

    Ed Bott - Author Widows XP Inside Out

    One more time: do not clean out your Prefetch folder!

    Beware of Bogus XP Advice

    Tip of the day: Don’t clean out the Prefetch folder

    Mark Russinovich - Author Windows Internals

    Microsoft Windows Internals, Fourth Edition = This book alone debunks 90% of the nonsense "tweaks" out there.

    So do you think Microsoft, The Windows Client Performance Team (The ones who created Prefetching) and the rest of the Windows Experts knows how this works or do some hacks on the "Interweb"?
     
  20. Mastertech

    Mastertech Registered Member

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    Thanks, but it is simply whether they want to accept reality and learn how it works instead of assuming. Some people are just so obsessed with doing "tweaks" they do not want to believe they don't work. The funny part about prefetching is ALL the so called "tweaks" about it REDUCE performance which makes it even worse. Anyone rational can read up on this and understand that "tweaking" prefetching in anyway is a bad idea for performance.
     
  21. Mastertech

    Mastertech Registered Member

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    How many times will what happen?

    Yeah all the hard work at misinforming people. In five simple minutes I pointed out how he doesn't spend ANY time researching anything he posts. He is simply obsessed with removing windows components with no knowledge of how this negatively effects the operating system. This is the equivalent of ripping parts out of your car engine simply because you want to make it lighter. Radiator? Who needs that.
     
  22. Franklin

    Franklin Registered Member

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    Well Masterbates, I saw your reply to another poster in another forum where you demanded this and demanded that.

    What an absolute stuck-up **** you are.

    A bit of "please" refrain from copying my material would have been more appropriarte.

    As for your self promoting crappy XP myths site thanks for scaring a lot of people with your "Ccleaner = cripples comments".

    People, it's a load of "full of himself crap".Tick it and don't worry!

    My advice - leave prefetch at default.Don't disable timestamps so as to get your disk defragged properly.

    But it's your puter and you do as you like!

    Use an imaging app as a backup.
     
  23. Pedro

    Pedro Registered Member

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    Totally uncalled for Franklin. I see him posting interesting links and arguements, and you're not really discussing it.

    I take his opinion, and do what i've always done: no tweaks, because i don't understand what they do. Good or bad tweaks, i can't tell them apart. And specially a function that is designed to increase performance. I can't make an OS, why fight the developers?
     
  24. Mastertech

    Mastertech Registered Member

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    Be accurate

    I don't understand where the name calling comes from? Losing the argument maybe?

    Copying what material?

    CCleaner with the "Old Prefetch Data" option selected = cripples you mean. The same option that used to be under the system section and selected as default until the author could not argue anymore that he knows more than the Windows Client Performance Team who wrote the prefetching feature! Imagine that? Yes I am so "full of myself" arguing with stubborn people to NOT slow their systems down. :rolleyes:

    You still have not answered the questions I presented:

    Why would you want to cripple the load times of applications that you have installed but have not launched in two weeks?

    Leave it at default yet you recommend having CCleaner clean the folder? Make up your mind. So you also admit Bold is wrong then. Please link to where disabling timestamps causes the disk defragmenter to not defrag your disk properly.
     
  25. Mastertech

    Mastertech Registered Member

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    Now that is a smart man. ;)
     
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