Please help w/new graphics card & system build

(451) Re: Please help with new graphics card

I just read this at another forum. It pertains to some of the posts in this thread.

"Thank you for contacting Intel® Customer Support.

I understand that you want to know what is the maximum weight of cooling solution for the Intel® Core™ 2 Duo processors.

Currently we do not have that information since we do not recommend using third party cooling solutions, this is because by using third party cooling solutions will void the processor warranty."

SO are we all screwed or not?
Hugger

 

(452) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Hi Hugger,

From what I understand so far, processors are fairly durable and will normally outlive their warranties. Also, how would Intel know you were using a third party heatsink in the first place . Hairy Coo has already mentioned that they probably wouldn't waste their time arguing about a warranty as it's just another write off for them.

I could be wrong about the above but I'm already liking my lower temps from my aftermarket cooler . A cooler chip should also last longer. My Prime95 temps have dropped from 63C with the stock cooler to 54C with the Xigmatek and my AS5 is still curing. The stock Core 2 Duo fan is an ok fan and it's quite, but I like to keep things under 60C.

 

(453) Re: Please help with new graphics card

innerpeace,
I'm looking at this the same way.
And with cooler temps comes a slight improvement in preformance.
Enjoy.
Hugger

 

(454) Re: Please help with new graphics card

I forget to mention to load the motherboard drivers on as i thought you be clued up about that but it worth mentioning. The updated drivers are worth getting from the Intel site over the one's what's on the CD. Don't update the BIOS unless you encounter a problem. Read the release info on the BIOS updates to see what they fix, they might not fix much so don't bother. New BIOS can sometimes create problems than what they solve. If it aint broke don't try to fix it kind of thing. I wouldn't worry about the weight of coolers if you use a backplate to the motherboard.

I hate to say again but for pain free a fresh install wins or you not see the full potential of what your new board can give you. The way you doing is a bad way for performance boost. You might encounter another issue a few weeks from now that hasn't materialised. If you overclocking high then your PC has to be stable at default. Any weakness will be exaggerated when you overclock limiting it. Installing another XP alongside the one you got into C:\WIN and saving the folders from the old XP and deleting the old XP is very easy.

It should be set approx 3/4 the voltage of the CPU. I would just leave it on AUTO in your case. If you change too many settings at once you don't know what improved it or made it worse. On air cooling raising the NB(MCH) is not always good idea as it more voltage can make it too hot. I try to get away with as low a NB voltage as i can.

Well they might be a different type of bent to how you mean. Mine had a crinkle wave in the very tops, yes mangled. I would get some thin nosed pliers and squeeze them straight then force them all down.

Yes you notice the BIOS are improved for overclocking and they support quads better.

It can take along time but that's part of the fun. I write them down on a piece of paper so i exactly know and not rely totally on the profiles.

Most P35 board's will get you to 3.6. The limiting factor isn't the board from there on it's the heat on the chips. It still an achievement getting to that on air but is a reflection of how good the P35 chipset is. Those quads are demanding. The power regulation is now better.

The memory timing setting to get excited on P35 boards is tRD or in the BIOS as Read Control Delay or Performance Level. http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/cpu/intel/penryn-oc2/perf_lvl.png It controls how fast memory get's sent to the NB and so relative on FSB. If the board is cheaper it not changeable in the BIOS but can use memset memory tweaker to set it. The other memory setting is TRFC but alot lesser.

Suggested Corsair timings for different modules http://www.asktheramguy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38144 . 0.3 no way. i'm sure you got the wrong reading there. It should be at least 1.8-1.9. You should use the default and not under. My memory is default 2.0-2.1 but boots at 1.9. Never run lower than default spec. I could chance my memory to 2.25 but that might kill it long term but if you keep it cool it can be ok. I just keep it at 2.1 or 2.15. I had several Corsair kits but using other brands i now consider it good quality but not great overclockers unless you buy the very top models. A good thing is to put you fingers on the memory chips. If they feel very hot then they need some cooling. It easy to kill memory from too much heat or alittle higher voltage.

hahaha

 

(455) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Thanks markymoo. I didn't realize that there was such a thing as chipset drivers until Hairy Coo mentioned them . I ran the utility from my MB disk because I wasn't sure which version to download. There are about 7 months older than the newest version. I now think I have the right version and may try it soon. I'll also heed your advice about using caution when flashing the BIOS.

Thanks again for the good information. I ran Prime95 short FFT's for 4 hours today with 0 errors. I was going to bump the speed up to 2.8 tonight, but my backup was taking longer than usual so I aborted and will wait until I get a good image. I've been having little problems here and there, but I don't think they are related to the OC. While gaming last night, I got an error and it was related to the Nvidia drivers. I haven't downloaded any updated version of it since I bought the card. What I really need to do is gather up all new drivers and software and start over.

 

(456) Re: Please help with new graphics card

innerpeace

I used my upper drive chamber which is empty and velcro'd the fan into position,just about as solid as using screws.

Its heavy duty stuff 25mm wide.

The best position to velcro from would be from an inside side,that way you can angle the fan better towards the mobo.

However you couldnt use a 120mm fan as this could only blow straight ahead because its too big to fit inside the chamber for purposes of tilting,a 92mm should be OK.
Mine is an 80,but will get a bigger 92 eventually.


Good work on the installation of the Intel drivers,also in being able to fix the
burner-a lot of people seem to have similar problems,but few have been able to fix it

 

(457) Re: Please help with new graphics card

markymoo

I did realize that a few posts ago and will slowly build up the new install I have available using FDISR,in conjunction to my regular old Windows install.

That 0.3 refers to the amount over the normal voltage which is 1.8-therefore I'm running 2.1v actual -I didnt make myself clear.

Thanks for those suggested mem settings-actually I have the feeling that the mem. is holding the o/c back.

Just now I managed to boot at 3.64ghz normally,everything working at temps in the mid 20s- so its certainly not the temp causing problems, especially now that I have another fan pointed roughly at the mem.

I then proceeded and managed to boot at 3.7,but with errors and a high vcore of 1.6

Any higher,the sys mem multiplier reverted to auto whilst the CPU frequency remained correct-made me suspicious of the mem.as I said above.

May buy some DDR1066 Corsair-would this help instead of DDR800?

Of course it could also be due to using the original Windows.

Now have to start from scratch again as the BIOS doesnt seem to have backward capabilities ,in that the errors present at 3.7ghz are remaining.

Edit

.

Just re read this post of yours-looks like the best alternative-the FDISR solution doesnt work.
Would be great if even some programs wouldnt need reinstalling.

 

(45 Re: Please help with new graphics card

Good idea! Thanks, I would have never thought about using Velcro. For some reason I had plastic cable wraps stuck in my head. I would like to eventually add another 120mm fan on top like the P190. Have you ever thought about adding an extra top fan?

In normal use, do you keep the top fan spoiler on? It seems it would block some air as most of it goes towards the rear.

Thanks for mentioning the INF drivers. The cd/dvd fix was easy. I only had to delete one registry entry and reboot and it worked. I must have been lucky plus it's a new burner.

To All:
I made a backup today of C: with my Seagate Disc Wizard boot cd. My C: partition is 60GB and only has 13.6GB on it. It took 2hrs. and 20min. to make the image and validate it. Isn't that a little long? Is there something in the BIOS I could check? I'm using the 2 Seagate Barracudas and I don't remember any image I have made taking near that long.

I decided to try something today . After the image, I set the FSB to 333 and check that the memory timings were 5,5,5,15 and the ratio was set to 1:1 and booted up. My idle temps are 35,34,27,33 which are the same as before. I ran Prime95 short FFT's for 35min. with 0 errors. The temps did try to get a bit higher and was occasional spinning my CPU fan at an unacceptable 2900 rpms. I turned the top fan on high, removed the spoiler and opened the front door. That helped calm the CPU a little but max temps still were 54,54,47,49 which were also the same. According to CPU-Z, the idle vcore is 1.304v and Prime95 vcore occasional dropped to 1.264v which is also the same as it was before. Here's a pic before fiddling with my fan. http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/9973/3000mhzpicoe3.jpg

I'll stress test more later and I want to get a pic with Speedfan which has more voltages. I'm not going any higher with the overclock as 3.0 was our goal and I'll be plenty happy with it. I'll have to fine tune other BIOS settings and eventually start lowering the vcore and test for stability.

I'm also wondering about a couple of BIOS settings if you have a little time.

1. PCIEx4 Speed Controller is set to Auto. Other settings are 2x and 4x.
2. Auto disable DIMM/PCI Frequency is set to Enabled.
3. PCI Latency Timer is set to 64. Other settings are 32, 64, 96, 128, 160, 192, 224, 248

Thanks,
innerpeace

 

(459) Re: Please help with new graphics card

yes i was slow to catch on then. my rule of thumb is don't go more than .2 up on its default voltage. so if it's 2.0 dont go more than 2.2

Hi Harry(Hairy) how you getting on ?

most 800Mhz you can squeeze 850 or 900 out of them either on default or abit more voltage. raising the voltage and cooling them makes them more stable. the G.Skill HZ 800Mhz series with black heat spreaders are amazing i managed to do 1050Mhz on default voltage. The generic kits of G.Skill overclock great. I consider Corsair boring unless you pay silly money for there top kits.

try same vcore but try keep raising the NB but don't go past 1.7.

it corrupted the BIOS settings.

To get to 3.7 you only have to do 822 on the memory. i'm sure it do it. it's not worth buying extra memory for.

That's why when you get to critical stages it best to use a notepad and just write down all the voltage figures in the order they come in so you know whats what.

Yes it sure does but first it's DOS and the verify is checking every byte even the empty ones. it could be extremely checking it too much. You can optimize the drivers for DOS but only a little. I would try another backup software.

well done on 3.0Ghz. you can do it with the temps just under 60C on full load as we predicted with your new cooler .

1. PCIEx4 Speed Controller is set to Auto. Other settings are 2x and 4x.

Can set it to 4. It wont make a difference.

2. Auto disable DIMM/PCI Frequency is set to Enabled.

Leave it on Auto but if you overclocking set it on 100 101 or 110. Never go over 110.

3. PCI Latency Timer is set to 64. Other settings are 32, 64, 96, 128, 160, 192, 224, 248

Leave as is. It synced by the PCI bus and going higher wont do you any favours overclocking.

 

(460) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Innerpeace

Best to leave on-doubt if it would have any real effect on the airflow and it prevents squirrels and the like entering.

Well done on the overclock to 3ghz-a good achievement and you should be noticing a general speed up.

Under stress using Prime-those temps are quite good-absolutely nothing to be concerned about and really not necessary to take any bits off .

Later on no doubt you will keep increasing the O/C and have your name immortalized in the Overclockers Hall of Fame

Shouldnt take more than about 10-15 minutes the lot with your new machine.
Something is wrong,sounds like a conflict

If you are using USB and the external drive,this could be the problem as Ti has been reported to have issues with USB.
But I think you are using eSATA!
Also if you are backing up a lot videos,this may slow down the backup.

Try reinstalling after a general cleanup-probably wont help-so can you describe any symptoms?

 

(461) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Hi markymoo,

Good to know-the Corsair actually has been completely trouble free even if boring

I know all the settings-also have written them down-but I cant just start a new overclock at 3.7ghz-gotta go step by step!

Also my memory has Qflash which can save BIOS settings, but hardly worth while in reality.

Thanks for the other tips.

At present I am delaying my next o/c attempt until I am satisfied the system is working properly.

As we discussed ,a fresh install is now absolutely necessary for me.

For a start,I carried out a parallel installation using a slipstreamed cut down SP3 with the new Intel drivers,next to the old Windows.
This didnt work out,because most of my programs and apps. wouldnt work with the new install-plus it still performed as before-sluggish!
Also the Intel drivers wouldnt register.

Then attempted a repair install over the old ,but the repair install menu was absent .

So now I partitioned the drive and installed a dual boot system -all XP-and fresh installed the slipstreamed XP3.
Very handy-all the old references and archives etc are still available.

This is working well-feels light and fast,but I have a lot of installation work to do.

 

(462) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Since the OCing was going ok, I decided to try 3.2 and got a black screen with a message about a recent hardware change etc., but it did boot to Windows but died at the start of Prime95. I also tried 3.1 and it did the same thing without the error message. I'm still at 3.0 now and all attempts were made with stock voltages. I mainly tried the higher speed increase because I don't see a way to lower vcore in the BIOS so I figured why not get what I can LOL. It was kinda of fun trying though and I'm sure with a little bump in vcore it may end up being stable. I'm done for now though and it is certainly fast enough .

I think it was the actual process of imaging that was slow and not the verifying. It could be the eSATA as I haven't done anything with it.

That's about all that little cooler can do with it's current settings. I'm not quite 1/2 through the AS5 curing process and I hope it helps, otherwise I may try re-seating the heatsink.

Thanks for this information. I'm going to include it in the notes I have been taking. I just want to be sure that I don't have a setting somewhere that will end up damaging a part. I'm still trying to find the PCI setting for 33MHz that is suppose to be important to set.

Hairy Coo,

Hello, I have built a perimeter fence to keep the squirrels out . The grill could be handy in keeping out some of the spiders though. The speed is really nice . Especially since it's a practically free boost. They sell chips that are $1000 with the same speed.

The Prime temps are maxing my cpu fan out. I did try setting my 3 upper chamber fans to high last night and it helped, but my ears are still ringing today LOL. What was nice was all of my fans including the cpu were running at 2000rpm so it kept the temps under 52C on the 2 hottest cores with an average of 50C. I moved the front fan to the cpu cooling position today but its not helping anything at idle. Sometimes I think I'm better of with only the top and rear fans. I will continue experimenting for a while longer.

If I keep increasing my speed, my little PSU may call it quits . I'm still good according to the calculator, but I'm not going to push my luck. I'm also going to order an APC UPS this week. I didn't want to spend the money, but it's another investment.

I agree, something is wrong. I am using the eSATA on the MB and not the eSATA bracket. Like I said above, I haven't configured anything so that is probably the problem. I bet the bracket would have worked normally. The only symptom is that the ext. drive light wasn't flickering all the time, just for about 2 seconds, then a 3-4 second pause.

 

(463) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Innerpeace,

Well thats a GOOD stress temp and as you only run these stress tests every purple moon,why worry-everything is looking good.

Still not clear how many fans you are running-could you list the lot.

Cant really see what you could configure to make the Wizard run faster-nothing you have mentioned would have any real effect-the bracket or direct should give similar results.
Could be a ICH9 driver problem,but you say all of them installed properly.
Otherwise its a conflict.
Have you checked Devices Manager? and did you previously get different speeds.
As I said,with your power,the whole job shouldnt have taken more than about 15 minutes.

Keep up the Good Work

 

(464) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Hiya Hairy Coo . Your right about me only running the stress tests every now and again. I guess the hardware bug has bit me and I'm grabbing for everything I can get LOL.

Right now, I have the factory lower chamber fan set to low (I did try med. during the last test). I have three upper chamber fans (my computer came with only 2, top and rear). My upper chamber fans are the top, rear exhaust and I'm trying the middle/gpu fan. I did have it in the front position but wanted to try the middle for awhile. All fans except the lower chamber one are set on med. speed. So far, the GPU is running 2-4C cooler at idle.

I don't think the eSATA is setup on my MB unless you have Vista.

This is from the MSI site.

I'm not sure if this is referring to the ability to hot swap or the actual functioning of eSATA... The only driver in device manager that has a yellow exclamation point is Parport. Whatever that is. I also do my imaging with the boot disk so I'm not sure that the drivers matter. I'm probably wrong though .

How's your OC'ing going or are you still installing programs?

 

(465) Re: Please help with new graphics card

innerpeace

I think you would benefit by having two fans in the upper drive compartment,
I know my system ran cooler with them.
Noisewise dont think there is any real difference.
Additionally you still have to velcro that other fan up there- pointing at the mobo!

Looks like the problem is solved re your slow speeds- you need to run under AHCI.

However have you tried to activate Parport-parallel ports-this probably would also activate SATA,

Go to Devices Manager-parport -and update the driver from your MSI CD.

If this doesnt work you will have to install the AHCI driver.

See markymoo's post#217-its the start of how to do it!

Still havent finished installing ALL the software ,plus tweaking around,as this is the first fresh install I have done for many, many years.

Will be back in the overclock saddle soon.

 

(466) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Your probably right about the 2 front fans being beneficial. I would have ordered another, but I can't see paying $5.99 shipping for a $10 fan. I'll have to see if Radio Shack has any in my small town.

You mentioned a while back that you set the middle (gpu) fan on low and it helped with your temps. Are you still running it on low now?

I had a feeling that was the fix. I admit I wasn't paying attention before because I was concentrating on CPU's, MB's and memory.

I have no idea what parport is, but when doing a search on my MB's cd I can't find it. Can it be found anywhere else and/or does it have another name?

Thanks for the post # reference! It's a little above me head, but I'll give it a try. Do I need a floppy drive to do this? Also, do I need to do this for each snapshot? Where is it installing the driver?

That's the hardest part. Installing Windows takes 20 min. Installing software and tweaking take hours . I have notes, but they are scattered which doesn't help. Plus I'm adding to them daily. My desk is a mess LOL. I do feel your pain and hopefully it will be over soon. I will probably have to do the same because I didn't install in INF drivers and this AHCI thingy. I wonder what else I don't know about that I forgot?

Can you wait until my UPS gets here in case that transformer goes again?

I'm looking forward to your results. You've put a lot of time and effort into getting things just right .

Edit: Do I just need the Iastor.sys driver or do I also need the other extracted files ( 2 .inf, 2 .cat and 1 .OEM) from the Intel Matrix Storage Manger? I extracted the files while running Returnil (as a precaution) and copied the Iastor.sys to a folder and zipped it to my data drive. The last time I moved a .sys file to my data drive weird things happened.

Also, in the BIOS under "On-Chip ATA devices" Is this the section that I need to enable SATA? Here are my current settings.

PCI IDE BusMaster [Disabled]
On-chip SATA Controller [Enabled]
Raid Mode [IDE] (other possible settings are Raid and AHCI)

if I change the Raid Mode to [AHCI], it brings up a sub-menu AHCI Devices Group.
From markymoo's post #255 on page 9.

Thanks and sorry for being a pain.
innerpeace

 

(467) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Innerpeace,

Think the fan is on medium but its a low noise fan-can recommend.

Re the parallel port driver,if you insert your MSI CD-go to Devices Manager and parport-update driver-that should do it.
Think that will fix your SATA problems except you may have to turn on the eSATA manually.
Otherwise ,if you start off at markys post 217 and work your way through until I installed/uninstalled AHCI,you will get the idea.
Unfortunately I have forgotten the exact details,so I cant be precise-you will know when you have succeeded.

Re my new install,its quite amazing how much junk I must have accumulated over the years.

The old install measured 46gb+data and Windows itself was 4.3GB.

The new install is reasonably similar, a few apps less,mainly FDISR and it will come in at about 7GB +data,Windows only1.3gb!!.(a slipstreamed SP3 minus non essentials)

Feels fast, responsive and light. Almost there!

Here is a little article about your buddies-astounding!

NewEgg

 

(46 Re: Please help with new graphics card

Hairy Coo,

Thanks for the info about your middle fan. I'd like to get another but I will wait. My UPS arrived today and hopefully it's battery is charging and I recieved and installed a new burner in my old computer. I also reinstalled Windows in it today and made an activated image . It should serve my relative well considering there using my old 98SE computer with 64MB of RAM .

I'm still having trouble figuring the Parport thing out. Device manager doesn't have the normal update drive option. I could have a service disabled that it depends on too.

I think I just installed the AHCI driver and I was able to use markymoo's original post without a problem. I hope I have the BIOS setup correctly. I set the Raid mode to AHCI. Was this correct? My old settings were in my last post.

Wow! You trimmed 46GB to 7GB. Not bad . Good to hear it's going well and is quicker.

Thanks for the link, I'll have a look see.

Intel Q3 price cut info can be found here.
Looks like you'll be able to get an E8500 for under $200. It should get you well over 4GHz .

 

(469) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Hello. The easiest way to enable AHCI is at post 250 which i posted here. You just moving the hard drives onto the JMicron controller connectors so you can boot up after installing the driver and then move them back again. Easy! The post 217 is the tricky way. If you enabled AHCI in the BIOS and it doesn't blue screen on boot then it should be working. Goto Device Manager and it will be listed under SCSI and RAID controller. Yours is the newer ICH9R. Always keep all the RAID,AHCI files together some are for installing RAID on Windows install. If you ever get RAID 0 or want to use AHCI from a new XP you can intergrate them into the Windows XP CD so you no need to add them by a floppy using F6. What's kind of funny is this new DFI board has less features than my older board so i can't do this way anymore lol.

 

(470) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Innerpeace,

Wel,Down Under even the e8400 cost about $230-send us one willya

Good work on the AHCI-forgot all about changing the connectors as marky mentioned!


markymoo,

Thanks for that re AHCI-will use again shortly

Excellent advice re fresh install!

Under multiboot,the new is running so much better than the bloated old one!

 

(471) Re: Please help with new graphics card

The Parport is probably referring to the parallel port, it's a sys file it needs. Are you using a printer? You probably will use the USB anyways. You might have it disabled in the BIOS or not installed all the m/b cd drivers. It always good to install drivers in the following order. You can right click it and select disable on it if no printer. It might be you don't have Plug and Play enabled in the BIOS. Open up the yellow alert and click on resources to see if there any IRQ conflicts. I doubt but just see.

Chipset, RAID, Chip ID, motherboard, patches.
Network, to get on net to get newer drivers.
Graphics
Sound
Keyboard
Mouse
USB devices

 

(472) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Hi markymoo, how are you doing?

Thanks for the reply. I really didn't have a problem with the original instructions. I used the one's in post #225 (sorry for the confusion). I just had no idea what I was doing and why so I've been cautious.

* In my BIOS under "On-Chip ATA devices" Is this the section that I need to enable SATA? These where my original settings.

PCI IDE BusMaster [Disabled]
On-chip SATA Controller [Enabled]
Raid Mode [IDE] (other possible settings are Raid and AHCI)

if I change the Raid Mode to [AHCI], it brings up a sub-menu AHCI Devices Group.

* Here is what I did, I change Raid Mode from [IDE] to [AHCI]. Was this all I need to do?

In the device manager, I don't see SCSI and RAID controller. I do have Intel ICH9 SATA AHCI Controller under IDE/ATA ATAPI controllers. I also have the Intel Matrix Storage Manager software installed.

 

(473) Re: Please help with new graphics card

My printer is USB, but it's not plugged in. In Parport properties under the driver tab it says current status stopped and startup is manual. Plug and Play is enabled in Services, but UPNP is disabled. Also, parport.sys is in the Windows\System32\drivers folder.

Out of the blue, write caching was disabled. I should also mention that I'm only using the one internal HDD, but the ext. is plugged in but powered off.

 

(474) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Innerpeace - Here is what I did, I change Raid Mode from [IDE] to [AHCI]. Was this all I need to do?

yes fine. the submenu just tells you what is detected on the AHCI.

Hairy Coo -Excellent advice re fresh install!Under multiboot,the new is running so much better than the bloated old one!

Yes of course! Always do a fresh install on a new board. It sounded like you needed to anyways. Don't be lazy and don't do it that way again! It's just a no no. No matter how good the software is to make it work on others chipsets. Of course not alot software wont work on a fresh install as it updates the registry and copies files into the Windows folder. I was saying for a few. If it was dragging it be heavily fragmented but it will of been a independant Windows. Running at 3.6 it shouldn't take you long to install the software again lol. Sorted now goood

 

(475) Re: Please help with new graphics card

I just hope you connected your graphics card to the PCI-E socket nearest the CPU as that is X16. I rummaged through the manual on your board and guess what? you have no parallel port hence the alert lol. It should not come up though. Try turning on PNP in BIOS. You still using a OEM XP from a AMD PC, that doesn't help either. Normally it can be down to a dodgy BIOS, bad drivers or conflict. I would just disable it in Device Manager. Do these settings and to free up resources. Write Caching is disabled by default. UPNP should be it's a security risk otherwise.

turn on smart mode
turn off boot sector protection
turn on execute bit support
turn off IEEE1394
turn off Com Port 1
turn off DIMM/PCI Frequency
any spread spectrum turn off.