Please help w/new graphics card & system build

(301) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Go for the lot -excellent-the mem. sounds really cheap
Get the Seagate-later on think about another.
If you like the MSI board,go for,it-a good performer.
But I think the DFI has better overclocking potential.
I sent my faulty Seagate back with data erased-quite often the disks arent that terminal that this cant be done..
Their service is fantastic!

That $89 Caviar here

 

(302) Re: Please help with new graphics card

You can but i sure won't recommend you use different speeds. you take a performance hit they both should be the same speed. The same brand is used so they both have the same seek and access times. If you use 2 different sizes you can only make the RAID as big as the smallest drive. You don't have to have the entire drives as RAID. example you can have 2x250gb = 500Gb and set up just a 100Gb Raid 0 and have 400Gb as a data partition. buying 2 same small hard drives is a great way to have a faster system and if you don't have it as RAID you can use the other drive as a backup drive. I am currently using 3 internal drives. a system drive,data drive and backup drive which i had them as RAID in the past.

The bigger you buy the cheaper it gets per Gb. I recommend the 16Mb of any size drive, it enables to copy large files quicker and get NCQ another little performance feature.

Yes they do on there highest kits but on that particular model they using Powerchips which are still highly rated.

Yes he could get the 500Gb and good value but does he need that big? I think it better to get 2 smaller drives and the data is safer on another drive if anything bad should happen. He can decide to use raid or have a backup or data drive.

Thats a great drive about the best of the 250Gb. Has 16Mb and NCQ. It's either that or the Western Digital. Get that as you have it in you external and will match it. The drives are very slim now and use the new power connector not your old molex type.

I suggested the dual as it sounded like you didn't want to go over $200 no matter what. Glad to see you going for the quad. I'm surprised you getting hard drive as well. The idea is to get the best Cpu you can afford and the other parts can come later, having said that buying parts too separately apart, you miss out on internet warranty deals if the parts are faulty.

Alot of the P35 boards are great boards and more than a few will goto 3.6 with good cooling but those 2 stand out for features and value. The DFI is an exceptional board for overclocking quads. It will overclock duals high too. but you not going so far right so the MSI be more than fine. I haven't researched much on the MSI and quads but i seen 4.3 on dual. It all down to how well you can cool it. 3.6 is 400 FSB on the 6600 which means the memory can run at 800mhz. The infamous G.Skill 8000 PQ. It's 1000mhz memory means 8000mb/sec. I am using that memory in my DFI and no issues at all. I love that memory as i used to pay so much in past for less. You won''t have a problem with it. You want to go more than 3.6 with a dual or quad then get the G.SKill if not just get some good lower priced 800mhz and save more. I can vouch for the G.Skill working without issue. Under 3.6 the Mushkin would be good value or other 800mhz memory but i dont' know about the compatibility. What other 800mhz are on offer on Newegg? It not wise to flash BIOS from windows safer to do from USB or CD.


I suggest the MSI and some decent lower priced 800mhz memory if you can get it alot cheaper than the G.SKill.

What's all this talk of overclocking i thought you said you only wanted to goto 3Ghz lol

 

(303) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Good comments markymoo-
My closing thoughts were also for two internal drives

 

(304) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Hairy Coo

I went for the lot but opted for the Seagate. It was actually more than I wanted to spend, but I didn't want to go without a backup drive for my new system which I was originally going to do. I didn't want to violate Hairy Coo law #2. Always have backups and images .

Hopefully all of this stuff will be on it's way here. A MSI MB (which is fine for my needs), 4 GB of DDR2 1000 RAM (it was only $10 more than the 800) and a Seagate SATA 3.0 250GB drive. I've been checking everyday now for a month and they should be good deals.

Thanks for letting me know about Seagate service. I hope I never need it, but it's great to know I'm covered.

 

(305) Re: Please help with new graphics card

I also read that the HDD/s can be the bottleneck with the quad cores if multitasking. I guess only 1 app. at a time can use the drive which makes sense. That's why I was wanting to keep my options open. I still need to learn more about RAID and or what would be the best setup when the time comes.

The seek times also looked a bit better too.

The HDD will have no influence on my CPU purchase. I was going to get a little one (HDD) anyways and saw the Seagate deal this month. I'm really hoping that the CPU prices fall within the next week. I've been checking daily and it should be my next purchase.

I couldn't resist the 1000mhz deal. It should also help me keep my options open if I sell the Q6600 next year. And that's a BIG IF LOL. The MSI should be fine for my needs. I also don't want to live near a power plant to power my CPU . I'm going to hold off on the PSU so I can concentrate on the CPU (retail or OEM) and a OS which looks to be $90 for XP home. I'm not sure if I can get a license cheaper locally. I live in a small town.

Ummm, you and Hairy Coo are to blame

I'll have to see if I get and OEM or retail CPU which would mean I might have to get a heat sink. I then will have to get a bigger PSU before I OC. Have I mentioned that I like to keep my options open .

Just as a reference, here is what I bought:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148262
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231145
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130098

 

(306) Re: Please help with new graphics card

@Hairy Coo
best leave the RAID out and like you said get one drive now and one later.

RAID 0 does give me that extra oooomph and quick access times. It's banded about on the web that RAID 0 does nothing for speed and might as well stick to single drives but I totally disagree. It all depends on what cluster size you set it at. I get 150mb/sec sustained transfer rate.

Did you know you had Intel Matrix RAID 0+1 together? On the 965 was Raid 10 which was 4 drives, Raid 1 with the performance of Raid 0. Raid 1 isn't a backup solution.

innerpeace
3 big gems there
you touched on an interesting good point about quads and threads with faster drives and RAID. you picked a decent fast drive. it will be adequate. yes we do suggest RAID but as you starting out we don't suggest it straightaway with your new build and you not familar. it complicates the setup. you can always get it later. small drives are cheap. you went for the performance bargains and can go higher if need be. the foundations are there. jobs a good un

 

(307) Re: Please help with new graphics card

markymoo,

Take your word about RAID-no doubt you and Innerpeace will get me interested also

Cant SATA 3 get higher than 150mb/sec with restrictions removed?

 

(30 Re: Please help with new graphics card

INNERPEACE



Congratulations-great foundation-all top gear at a bargain price!!!

 

(309) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Thanks to you both .

I've had great help and I honestly feel that the parts are great and the build will go well. They all should be fine for my needs plus they should give a little 'wiggle' room if I need it. They should be here before the weekend knowing newegg. It's gonna be tough looking at parts I can't use. I'll manage though .

I will have a look at the RAID link Hairy coo posted. I've been meaning to learn about it for a while now. I'm going to take things slow as you both have suggested. I'll get up and running (and stable ) and then worry about the cool stuff.

Cheers,
innerpeace

 

(310) Re: Please help with new graphics card

This is why i have always recommended keeping your system drive on 1 drive and your software installs on another. On a heavy application that write to the drive alot it would help more on the multi tasking. You can still get good performance on 1 decent drive and having the cache and adequate RAM helps.

I like this guide to explain RAID.
http://www.acnc.com/04_01_00.html

Yes on the ICH9R the bandwidth is upto 3Gb. It would go higher. The 150mb/s i was getting was on ICH8R not ICH9R. I would get more on ICH9R no doubt. It really flies using 4 drives. I haven't got RAID 0 installed on my DFI yet. Using a small partition Raid 0 partition on the outside of the hard drive be faster too. Burst speed is improved also. If you set the wrong cluster size you can get worse performance.

edit forgot to say you have to pull of the hd jumper on some to enable 3Gb.

 

(311) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Nice find markymoo! I have bookmarked the link for later use.

 

(312) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Innerpeace,

Nice review here-Editors Choice-no less!!

 

(313) Re: Please help with new graphics card

markymoo,

Checked transfer rates for my Barracuda 7200.9 (16mb cache) disks and the max.is about 72 mb/sec,with SATA 3 enabled,but also ICH8R.

Is this normal for this model,do you know?

 

(314) Re: Please help with new graphics card

I read part of that article a while back and I re-read it again thanks to you and I think we did ok with choosing that MB . The article has really good screenshots and I'm fond of the copper heatsinks/tubing. It's basically the same thing as the Platinum without the rollercoaster heatsinks, firewire and the optical out. Oh, and it has a Neo2 sticker over the Platinum silk screen .

 

(315) Re: Please help with new graphics card

That is exactly on the mark for that spec using 1 drive. Defragging helps too of course to get the best response. The bandwidth is abit more on ICH9R. Using RAID 0 gives you better Read Sequential,Sustained, Average Seek but i'm not talking about your normal RAID 0 which doesn't always equate to mega everyday use. If you use small partitions on each drive ie. 10-50Gb you use the fastest part, the sweet spot of the drive and the seek times improve also. Boot times are very fast. I wouldn't bother doing RAID 0 unless you do it like this. You also have to enable writeback cache. Doing it this way you can beat the 10000RPM Raptors and equal there very low seek time. Advantage of all this windows stays fast. The RAID array you make with the rest of the space will be slower as it the middle of the drive onwards. Drives that have big platters help too. You get better result on bigger drives. There is drives out with 32mb cache. The Samsung Spinpoint drives are very quiet and i get one to use in HTPC. btw you have to defrag more often using RAID have a good backup plan in place due to more risk. Raid 5 and 10 are best done with a dedicated Raid card.

You maybe aware you should lock your PCI Express to 100-110 and the PCI clock to 33 in the BIOS and not keep it on Auto if you overclocking as the data rate goes too high and results in saving back garbage to the hard drive, result corruption. This is even more important to do using RAID.

Here is result using 4 drives. 60gb partition on each.

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/7555/hdtachnj5.jpg

 

(316) Re: Please help with new graphics card

LOL, as to the length of the treath,your new card should be old by now !

 

(317) Re: Please help with new graphics card

@innerpeace
regarding the RAM. if you stick 1 stick in the m/b green slots and the other in the orange slots then they work in 'dual channel mode' which is faster .

@Huupi

lol and if the graphic card turned out to be PCI and wouldn't fit in the new m/b but it will it PCI-E

update:
Hey guys I am now running this Q6600 at 4Gb! It pretty stable but not 100% but gives an indication of how good these boards are. I am quite sure the board isn't the limiting factor as i booted into windows at 4.1Ghz, it's the heat. Just got a 120mm fan pointed at the NB. The pic shows the NB temps which are around 48C. To get stable got to get the temps under 45.
http://artco.adsl24.co.uk/markymoo/4gb.jpg

 

(31 Re: Please help with new graphics card

markymoo

Fantastic result-the best I have heard is 3.8 Ghz !!!
Great mobo!

Unclear what some of your specs are-could you let us have the lot-case,psu-is your cooling air TEC-etcetc.

 

(319) Re: Please help with new graphics card

markymoo,

Is this your preferred model for home use-over all the other levels of RAID?

Is it practical to use Level 0 on the C drive only-as mentioned in the link.?

Different RAID levels here

You are achieving amazing results as per the HD Tech graph!

Backups,for example with SP can be made,but any backup archives would have to be stored on a non RAID drive,naturally.

The PCI express setting is 101-is there any advantage with any other setting?

Cant find a PCI clock setting-would you have an idea what it may be called with the Gigabyte Award BIOS?

many thanks.

 

(320) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Yep, I read that in the review. They were complaining about the color of the slots not being correct for dual channel.

Wow, that's amazing! I plugged your OC figures in the PSU calculator and it came up with 259watts.

Does the warm NB mean that you are going to water cool it soon??

 

(321) Re: Please help with new graphics card

lol. you might not need that 120.3 a 120.2 will do just for the Cpu. I managed to wrestle back the watercooling(which wasn't easy, as he was loving the speed) for short duration. I had in mind to be upgrading rest of parts soon but i am deciding to wait for the Lian Li Pc-A77 case in May. The unknown potential going over in my mind as the board stared back at me waiting util May was too much and i was getting withdrawal symptoms from no watercooling lol. On the P965 before i was running the RAM 266mhz:667/800/1000 to get 1:1 sync which maximizes your overclock but not the fastest way to run your memory. If i did the same thing on the DFI i was running at a 4:5 divider. The penny dropped. I realised to get 1:1 sync you have to run it as 333mhz/667/800. Once i did that... everything including the RAM showed a noticeable speed up as i was on a faster bus heading for the race track. After more reading it sounds obvious to me now but when you not familar with all the new BIOS options.

Yes. 3.8 and less volts would be sane and stable. 3.9 i can get stable and on full load the Cpu temps are at 56C. Using 1.45 to get to 3.8 and then having to shove alot more volts to get that bit extra is excessive. I can't get it stable at 4gig on active cooling but i had sooo much fun trying. If i try with 1 memory stick i maybe can as it puts less stress on the memory controller. Apparently it's harder to boot into Vista(more volts) than it is XP which would make sense. 1.6 is pretty extreme. Not given up yet. You have to go far past 1.5 and that is why you may not see many 4gig. Even though you keeping it cool with water well under the safe 60-70c you can still kill it with too high voltage.

This board doesn't complain just needs to be mastered. There is very little helpful info on this BIOS and few forums are pooling there resources. I managed to glean some good from a review which isn't even for the same board.
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3129&p=13
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3129&p=14

Wow really. That be 4x the consumption of a dual at default . I wasn't thinking about that at the time lol. I don't know what the ambient temperature in the room was but i remember thinking it's a warm night tonight lol and thinking what a result! and then realising alot heat was being generated from the pc lol. The Q6600 G0 is much better stepping than the B3. I am not using a fancy graphics card so that helps.

In the review on that other board which has a very similar BIOS, to get stable in Prime95 you have to get the NB under 45c which was what i was starting to believe as anything around that became unstable. There is 3 settings for voltages just for the SB which didn't even feel warm. I saw 48c but when i took the shot it had dropped. Over 40C might sound hot but i could rest my fingers there a long time. I not 100% sure it is the NB now but could be down to poor heat traversal to the heatsink. I will still have a go at cooling that and the PWM and i will soon find out. I started to get a feel for the board and the BIOS options have become friendlier.

Yes i will sure try that just to see what difference it makes as i still see more potential. I now getting the feeling that if it doesn't POST its me and not the board! The hard part was finding compatible waterblocks. The m/b been out from January but finding anyone's results from watercooling is virtually non existent. I think only a few have tried. The reason is there's a sticker on the NB that says if you remove this heatsink your warranty becomes void, ironic since it a enthusiast m/b. I let you know if i get anymore out of it .

Yes i recommend it for best performance called a slice. If you can afford 3-4 hard drives even better. Unfortunately buying drives of 80Gig they don't have the best performance features as the 250Gb or above. You setup so you have a fast system partition and a data partition also. I also done experiments using a seperate smaller RAID 0 1gb just for the Pagefile and keeping Documents and Settings and Users folders off the system partition so if the RAID goes down no personal data is lost.

eg. 17Gb of 3 x 250Gb hard drives would be approx 50Gb setup as RAID 0 which be big enough. The other 700Gb can be split up formatted as a non RAID partition for data that is not so important like Program Files so if the drive fails it not valuable data loss. Drives are quite reliable these days and using RAID is less risky and as long as you backup.

It was but now a drive as of today will give good performance, unless you working with large files, data, i say it not worth it but it is more responsive, read speeds and loading large amounts of data, copying, load times are faster on software and boot times. There are certain drive models, better for using in RAID. You have to experiment and find the best stripe size suited for your system. A stripe size of 32K and 64K works best for general use in windows.A strip size of 256 would suit very large media files. 250Gb drives are cheap to the price of what i was paying and if RAID doesn't work out you can always use them as backup drives.

The 4 drive was not my result. I was reporting that 4 drives flys and gives great sequential speed and showing you a benchmark just to give you an idea of the performance increase the more drives you use.

An another advantage of making a small RAID 0 system partition is backup and restore imaging is qucker. The image size would be small. Any image or valuable data has to be stored on a non RAID. If the RAID array fails which is rare you only lose the system partition and not the data partition.

Thats fine. I have mine set to that. Upto 110 is considered safe as long as it's not on Auto. It will vary from bios to bios. It will say PCI Frequency which it should be under PCI express some motherboards don't have, forget it if you don't have.

 

(322) Re: Please help with new graphics card

LOL, I knew you weren't concerned with the amount of watts, but I just had to check. I'm not sure how accurate it is either. I used the normal PSU calculator link and plugged the figures into the 'overclock my cpu' part and it will give you the watts. http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp I only thought of it because the only negative for me considering a Q6600 is the power consumption. Of course I'm not aiming for 4Ghz either . It also sounds like you have a nice heater in your room LOL.

I have no doubt that the DFI MB is good. I hope your able to find compatible waterblocks for it. Who knows, you might be able to replace the thermal compound on the NB and be good to go. Of course that would deep six your warranty. I'm sure you will figure it out .

 

(323) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Innerpeace,

When do the goodies arrive ?

Almost time!

That was a pretty neat calculation of energy used

 

(324) Re: Please help with new graphics card

 

(325) Re: Please help with new graphics card

markymoo-

All sounds good-but still unclear what cooling or case you are using?
Did you get your old computer back from the Dad?

Anyway,3.8ghz is a top result and sounds more sensible,no doubt in practice,virtually no difference

see also others


The explanation of RAID will be handy for the next build-was thinking of enabling just one disk,but doesnt sound worth it.
Next build will get something like 3x500gb drives-2 for RAID and one for Data-archives-backups etc. using RAID 0.

Innerpeace.

You and markymoo got me interested in RAID,but having only one disk plus the backup disk wouldnt be practical-so you will just have to buy another Seagate 250 eventually!