Partitioning?

Rmus,
Thanks for the info and the links.
Concerning the "D&S folder" and re-locating "User Profiles" and "Program Settings".
I have to study this first, but it looks promising.
I only can blame myself, that I never paid any attention to partitioning.
So this will be my priority #1, when I get my new computer + winXPproSP2 somewhere in December/After NewYear.

Concerning ShadowUser.
I know the stuff you mentioned about SU already (in theory), because I'm dreaming of SU for more than a year.
However reading about SU, isn't that same as really using SU in practice.
Maybe I'm worried too much. That's my nature.
I better postpone SU and learn/do what has to be done FIRST : partitioning and later image backup. That is enough to start with.
If my partitioning isn't good enough for SU, I can do it all over again. I don't mind about that as long there is some progress.

So I will be quiet for awhile about this subject and prepare my partitioning on paper in full detail.
Thanks for all info and the very informative links. Without all these posts of this thread, I would be still in the dark.

 

My suffering isn't over yet.
I have read this website :
http://www.theeldergeek.com/hard_drives_01.htm

There seem to be :
Primary Partitions
- on one physical harddisk, you can have maximum 4 primary partitions.
- the Operating System MUST be on a primary partition.
Extended Partitions
- an Extended Partition is a CONTAINER of Logical Drives.
- you MUST create an Extended Partition first, before you can add Logical Drives
Logical Drives
- a Logical Drive needs to be created within an Extend Partition.
- in one Extended Partition, you can have an unlimited number of Logical Drives, as long there are drive letters left.

OK. My bird's brain is able to understand that, but the author of the website,
doesn't really explain WHEN you have to use an Primary or Extended Partition, except these differences mentioned above.
In fact, he admits he doesn't know the technical difference between both.

My conclusions as a newbie are and hold your breath :
1. For each different Operation System you MUST use a Primary Partition, which means you can only have 4 different Operating Systems (for instance : win98SE, win2000pro, winXPpro, Linux) on ONE physical harddisk.

2. If you have more than four Operating Systems (for instance SIX), you need a second harddisk with at least TWO Primary Partitions.

3. If you have only ONE harddisk and one Operating System you can
- use maximum FOUR Primary Partitions on one physical harddisk : one Primary Partition for your Operating System and three other Primary Partitions for the rest of your files.
OR
- use ONE Primary Partition for your Operation System and ONE Extended Partition, with as many Logical Drives you need for the rest of your files.

4. You can have only ONE Extended Partition on ONE physical harddisk.
Is that correct

5. So if you put your Operating System aside, it seems to me that it doesn't matter which kind of partition (primary or extended) you use for Programs, SWAP file, personal files, ... UNLESS you need more than FOUR drive letters on your single physical harddisk.
Is that correct

6. They always seem to put the SWAP-file on the very first partition of the second harddisk, if you have one.
My assumption is that they do this for a good reason : I think that the first partition is the FASTEST partition for reading/writing data on physical harddisk, while the last partition, close to the center of the harddisk, is the
SLOWEST for reading/writing data.
Because the SWAP-file is an extension of the RAM-memory, it's better to put it in the FASTEST partition to improve performance.
Is that correct

 

It's best to put the OS in the primary partition. Set this partition ACTIVE if you want to boot the partition. W2K and WXP can exist in an extended logical partition. However, your still need a primary partition to boot.

Bootit NG can run more than four primary active partitions to support multiple OSes. For example, you can have W2K in one primary C partition, and WXP in another primary C partition. Use a boot loader or equivalent to set one of the primary C partition ACTIVE, and boot to that partition. The other C partition with the other OS will be invisible.

I DO NOT recommend putting files in the other primary partitions because ONLY one primary partition can be visible at a time. Use the extended logical partition if you want to access data while running windows. You can create an unlimited number of extended logical partitions. Primary partitions are designed for OSes ONLY.

Once you have create the ONE extended partition, create as many logical partition as you like under this extended partition. Yes, only one extended partition per HDD.

The speed of the HDD will decrease toward the insider of the disc platter. I usually put the swap file in the middle of the HDD. If the PC has sufficient RAM, then the location of the swap file isn't going to matter.

 

Why should'nt you see other primary partitions
Nod32, all of your recommendations are valid, but the above statement is not true. I suppose you are referencing to BootIt boot manager. In fact, this program recreates the MBR record for each boot item, which must conform to Windows limitations. Actually, if your current OS loads from one primary partition, you can still have three other primary partitions (or two primary + one extended) visible from this OS. The only limitation is total 4 partitions (primary + extended) visible for each setup.

isnogood

 

Well that's not the websites says. It says it doesn't matter.
I guess I need a coin to make a decision about who is right and who is wrong. LOL

Nevertheless, my intuition tells me that nod32.9 is right.
Why would they provide maximum FOUR Primary Partitions and use them for OS and everything else, like the author of the website says. That would limit the user up to FOUR partitions, if he has only one harddisk and that is UNLOGICAL.

So the Primary Partitions must be for OSes ONLY, while the extended partition gives the user the opportunity to create as many logical drives he needs on his harddisk and that is LOGICAL.

 

It effectively doesn't matter. You may use primary partitions for whatever you want, although it IS LOGICAL to use primaries for the OSes and extended - for data. Nod32 is right about that. But many people never use more than 4 partitions total. They certainly do not need to create an extended partition just for data. Extended is needed ONLY if you need more than 4 partitions visible for each setup.

My personal example: I use BootitNG for 4 OS setup, all starting from my first HD.
I have 4 primary (one for each OS) and one extended partition with several logical drives.
They are of course created by BootIt, with EMBR option. The only restriction for this setup is that each OS may see only four partitions, including self. In my case, each of them sees the extended partition with data, but also choosen primary partitions with other OSes. For current OS it simply doesn't matter if other partitions it sees are primary or logical, and if they contain data or anything else.

By the way, BootIt is by far the best boot manager out there. Thanks to MBR reconfiguration for each startup item, each OS believes it is starting from the first HD partition ) regardless of where it physically resides. It is then possible to install windows on one partition, save the image, and reinstall it instantly on another partition. To my knowledge it is the only program being able to do this, and I have tried many of them. Warmly recommended.

isnogood

 

Never said that you cannot put data in primary partition. W2K and WXP can exist in an extended logical partition. W98 can only exist in a primary partition. However, there must always be something in the primary active partition to boot the OS.

Ony ONE primary partition can be viewed/accessed at a time. This is to prevent the user from tweaking the other primary partitions and render them unbootable. Bootit will support more than 4 primary active partitions. But again, the user must set the primary partition active to boot and access its contents.

Each primary active partition can retrieve data from the extended logical partition(s). A common strategy is to give W98, W2K, and WXP their own primary partition C. The software can be individually installed in the D extended logical partition. Finally, use the boot loader to select the OS that you want to boot to (make ONE of the primary partition ACTIVE). Each OS will share data in the D logical partition.

 

Nod32, this is not true. I HAVE a setup where I can see and modify other primary partitions where another OSes are installed. If you are interested, I will give you details. Agreed, only one primary may be active at once (the startup one) but the others MAY be accessed (in the limit of 4). Perhaps it is not recommended, to prevent stupid user manipulations, as you said, but still it is possible.

isnogood

 

isnogood,
Since I have only ONE OS (winXPproSP2), I will use a Primary Partition for that and use an Extended Partition with Logical Drives for all the rest.
If I would use only Primary Partitions and I would need one more partition in the future, I won't be able to add a logical drive, because I wouldn't have an Extended Partition. In that case I can start all over again.

Using Primary Partitions only, doesn't cover all situations, while an Extended Partition covers all situations.
That's the difference.

Well I'm also interested in BootItNG. If I like the trial version, I will buy it.

 

ErikAlbert, if you need only one OS, Bootit will serve you for nothing, even if it's a great program . In this case one primary for OS and one extended for data is indeed a good choice. On the other hand, you won't be able to add any other primary partition after the extended one afterwards, unless you move it. The primaries must be physically first on the HD. So, it may be still interesting to create 2 or 3 primaries + 1 extended to be safe for the future. Its up to you, your setup is okay anyway.

isnogood

 

I thought BootItNG was not for partitioning only, it's also for image backup.

Well according that website, primaries don't need to be physically first.

 

Hi,
Isnogood, are you by the way the wanna be Kaliph of Baghdad in Goscinni's works?
Mrk

 

Oh God, he found me

 

Oh man Erik, you're jumping into the deep end again and making stuff harder then they really are.

Are you really going to use two OS's? four OS's? six OS's? Do you REALLY NEED four partitions? more then four partitions?

From your first few post on this thread your main concern was creating a few partitions so you could use SU. Is this still the case? If so, all the talk about extended partition and logical drives is moot. You don't need them.

Yes, your assumptions are correct.

Erik, I don't care if you use the windows cd or partition software to create partitions, but try to keep it simple instead of complicating thing. Simple is beautiful. (E=MC2)

nod32.9

And later.

Huh, where did you get those ideas. Wrong. Lets not confuse Erik any more then he already is.

I know what you're saying, but actually the speed of the HD stays the same, and its the surface speed that's fastest at the outer edges of the platters of the HD. Therefore, it's best to put the swap file at the beginning of the disk. Even if you have a GIG or more of RAM, it's still recommended to have a swap file because some programs need it, so why not keep the speed up.

Regards,
Jaws

 

Jaws,
I was just wondering about the limitations of partitioning and a few other things, but I stick to my original plan.
This post was more about theory. Additional info, I don't really need.
If other people ask "Can I create 100 partitions on my harddisk ?" I can say NO.