Panda Cloud AV: is it really compatible with other antimalwares?

Discussion in 'other anti-virus software' started by Arin, Oct 7, 2010.

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  1. Arin

    Arin Registered Member

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    I couldn't find anything relevant in the old threads. As per Pedro's post on the official blog, the latest version of Cloud AV is compatible with other AVs and ASs.

    Has anyone actually tried it?
     
  2. Ibrad

    Ibrad Registered Member

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    In the past Panda Cloud would not install with other Anti-Virus/Anti-Malware products installed. With that version it would no longer alert you and install anyway.

    So it could be possible for you to install another AV next to Panda and it work fine but it could not. So yeah its possible but not recommend unless you really know what you are doing or just doing it for fun.
     
  3. Vladimyr

    Vladimyr Registered Member

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    I have PCA alone on a couple of PCs.
    It is generally not recommended to have more than 1 active on-access anti-malware program. There is no reason for PCA to be an exception to this.
     
  4. Arin

    Arin Registered Member

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    AFAIK the main reason why two on-access scanners should not run side by side is because both will try to intercept file read/write operation. I don't know if there is any clever way around it.

    Thats why I asked if anyone had any issues with it or not. Why Panda mentioned that its compatible with other AV softwares? Is it meant to run with other AV softwares? It is supposed to replace them!

    Or is it just because Panda acknowledges paranoid users who loves to run more than one security applications? :D
     
  5. Matthijs5nl

    Matthijs5nl Guest

    With compatabile Panda means that they won't conflict (allow each other to work). But it does slow your pc down for sure. So not recommended.
     
  6. Boyfriend

    Boyfriend Registered Member

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    Perhaps, Panda Cloud AV does not make hooks to kernel for self-protection and other special purposes. There will still conflict in read/write operation, but PCA detection/response will not be too quick due to cloud query. Still it can detect leftover/missed viruses. Today, I checked it on my system with my security setup. It ran fine without any problem except one of its process (do not remember the name) I/O read/write was too much high even more than every other process although KIS, WinPatrol, WTF, and DWPF programs folders and drivers were completely excluded from protection.
     
  7. atomomega

    atomomega Registered Member

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    Set one of them (or both) to scan only on-execute.
     
  8. 3GUSER

    3GUSER Registered Member

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    I have tried it with ESET Smart Security 4 - incompatible !!!
    ESS was installed and working OK first . Panda Cloud installed OK with no errors but as soon as instation finished , the computer hang . After hard reset nothing was changed - the computer stops responding as soon as it is booted .

    No , no , Panda Cloud is fully functional and shouldn't be used as a complement to other products.
     
  9. ExtremeGamerBR

    ExtremeGamerBR Registered Member

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    No need to use it with other antivirus, but I believe it is more compatible with other antivirus than normal.
     
  10. safeguy

    safeguy Registered Member

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    It's compatible with Avast and Returnil Virus Guard. At least according to my experience....

    You can take a look at this interview:
    Softpedia Exclusive Interview: Panda Security

    And have a look here too:
    can I use with another AV?

    There's a post by a Trusted Moderator there, ShadowMan who stated this:

    Oops, seems like I've quoted him:p

    And I'll make a disclosure: I've done such a stupid test before too 1 year back....running multiple AVs together to see whether and how they conflict...success for certain combinations and failure for others. It's not for normal PC usage...I was merely testing it so as usual the warning would go as "don't do it on a production machine".

    If you ask me - as long as you don't have the another AV that have a record for having problems installing in a system that has another AV installed previously AND you do not set to 'quarantine' or 'automatically remove' possible infected files (ask the user for what to be done), then tendency is you can be fine running both at the same time. There are some other known incompatible security software such as the ones mentioned by a poster there...so be sure to avoid those.
     
  11. BoerenkoolMetWorst

    BoerenkoolMetWorst Registered Member

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    I tried experimenting some too, a good general rule is to exclude both products from each other after installation of the second one and before the reboot. This improves overall speed and can avoid those total slowdown/lockup issues after booting. I also tried Avast Free and Panda Cloud AV together, they worked quite well, but sometimes the start time of Firefox would be much longer, like a few minutes, while other programs still started fine.
     
  12. Ibrad

    Ibrad Registered Member

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    Someone did a test on a Spanish Security forum and then came and gave shared with us some results:

    Kav 2011 (NO)
    Nod32 v4 (YES)
    Avast! 5 free (YES)
    Avira free antivirus (YES)
    BitDefender Free Edition (YES)
    Norton antivirus (YES, but slows the pc)
    Avg (NO, panda and avg detected a virus)

    Security Suites:

    Kis 2011 (NO)
    Eset smart Segurity (NO)
    Avira Premium Security Suite (YES)

    Now this is in no way official but if you are curious of what others found
     
  13. Arin

    Arin Registered Member

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    Thank you guys, specially Ibrad for the above post.

    I wonder what Pedro actually meant by we’ve recently changed the way that Panda Cloud Antivirus installs and now you can install it alongside other solutions to be run in parallel.

    Does it mean Panda will not check and refuse to install if another AV is found? Or it will not argue with an AV about file read/write interception?
     
  14. pbust

    pbust AV Expert

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    Just to clarify, a few months ago we changed the way our installer works so that it installs even if there is another AV already installed in the machine. In the past we used to make a hard stop during the install if the installer found any traces of a previous AV installation, even minimal traces.

    The reasoning is that advanced users normally run multiple AV/AM tools and are smart enough to turn one or the other off and not run them simultaneously. But as some have reported, Panda Cloud Antivirus will run without problems with other AVs.

    But we are *not* saying that Panda Cloud Antivirus is *compatible* with other AVs, simply that it can be installed alongside other AVs. There's just too many combinations out there to check from a QA perspective to make sure they are compatible. As some users have seen, with certain combinations it works flawlessly and with some there's conflicts and/or slowdowns, it really depends on the combination of real-time scanners.
     
  15. qakbot

    qakbot Registered Member

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    Most real-time antivirus products hook the following Windows callback subsystems:

    1. The Filter Manager - for inspecting file system events
    2. The Configuration manager - for registry events
    3. The ObjectManager or 'Ob' callbacks for inspecting various kernel objects

    Then there is undocumented stuff like

    4. Random SSDT hooking
    5. API hooks in user-mode

    The problem when you have two products whether they be AV-related or not inspect these same choke points you end up with a number of issues that are very hard for the vendor to test for. These are:

    1. Too much stack usage - kernel stack is severly restricted in 32-bit OSes, so stack overruns are very common if one of the drivers does a lot of file I/O

    2. IRP Pending - certain drivers dont expect IRPs to be pended. However other vendors driver might pend the IRP and the upper driver might get back a STATUS_PENDING which they aren't expecting and bad things happen

    3. API hooking assuming you are the only one doing the hooking.

    There are many other highly technical reasons why various vendors products that have kernel-mode compnents dont play nice, but you get the picture.
     
  16. Arin

    Arin Registered Member

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    Thats higly useful information. Do you work for Symantec? :D
     
  17. The Hammer

    The Hammer Registered Member

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    Silly comment. Are they the only ones who can provide useful information.:rolleyes:
     
  18. atomomega

    atomomega Registered Member

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    While the info provided above is useful. I personally think is somewhat useless to be running 2 AV's/AM's in real time. This goes, IMO, against the "layered approach" concept, turning it into a "redundant approach"... even if X product was fully compatible with everything, soon you would notice it implies a big sacrifice in terms of performace, stability, usability and manageability. So why even bother going through the hassle when practicing safe-hex and making sure everything is running fully patched/updated should keep you safe?
     
  19. Arin

    Arin Registered Member

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    Silly judgement. I just happen to see a pattern in his replies.

    @All

    Please understand why I asked that question before you come with your valuable suggestions. Panda said its Cloud AV is compatible with other AVs. I don't see that sort of stuff normally from mainstream vendors. The question has been answered nicely by Pedro.

    So please no more education needed unless it contains something *extra* viz. qakbot's post.
     
  20. pbust

    pbust AV Expert

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    Just to clarify, I did not say that PCAV is compatible with other AVs... I said that the installer will allow it to be installed alongside other AVs. There's a big difference.

    To illustrate differently:

    Installer = can be installed alongside other AVs = PCAV does not block installation if it detects other AVs present in the system.

    AV Compatibility = PCAV is not developed nor tested to be compatible with other AVs. Some people have reported it works with other AVs and it doesn't with others. This does not mean official compatibility.
     
  21. The Hammer

    The Hammer Registered Member

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    Not if you really take the time to read all of them. And by that I mean more than just a cursory glance.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2010
  22. Nevis

    Nevis Registered Member

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    well it doesnt seem to bother me with my norton IS 2011
     
  23. qakbot

    qakbot Registered Member

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    So much for trying to provide real reasons why AVs sometimes dont co-exists. And mind you, these problems are not limited to AVs. I have seen them with AV + Disk Defrag. AV + Reg Optimizer. A number of such combinations.

    If a vendor says they work with other vendor's products then go for it. If not, and you still run two of them, then you are taking a risk (which in most cases you might get away with).

    No I dont work for Symantec, but I have been to plugfest (if you have any clue what that is), so I have seen all the crap first hand.
     
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