Outpost vs. Leak Tests

Discussion in 'other firewalls' started by Patrice, May 16, 2003.

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  1. Patrice

    Patrice Registered Member

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    Hello people,

    o.k., we continue with this thread over here. This is the right forum for it. For those who are interested in the topic, see how everything started:

    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=8585;start=30

    The question is, if the firewall Outpost passes the Leak Tests (inside-outside protection) now, which it didn't pass some months before (March 27, 2002):

    http://www.pcflank.com/art21.htm

    QSection will be the one who will test this on his machine, others are welcome as well. Here are the Leak Tests which the firewall has to pass:

    http://grc.com/lt/leaktest.htm (LeakTest)

    http://www.soft4ever.com/security_test/En/index.htm (Yalta)

    http://tooleaky.zensoft.com/ (TooLeaky)

    http://keir.net/firehole.html (FireHole)

    http://www.hackbusters.net/ob.html (Outbound)

    http://www3.sympatico.ca/oliver.lavery/za-hole.zip (Thermite)

    So, then let's wait for the results. Now it's up to you QSection, may you prove me wrong. ;)

    Best regards,

    Patrice

    P.S. Let us also know the version of your firewall installed.
     
  2. Ph33r_

    Ph33r_ Guest

    I can’t really speak a lot about Outpost but Look ‘n’ Stop Personal Firewall passes all “9” Leaktests no sweat. And only by hearing others over these forums can I say that these other Software Firewalls got reputation of failing these Leaktests. ;)
     
  3. meneer

    meneer Registered Member

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    Lots of links to try :)

    Few weeks ago I tested v2beta on most wel known leak tests (grc, firehole, tooleaky) with good results. So, I'm optimistic :D
     
  4. solarpowered candle

    solarpowered candle Registered Member

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    Yep you cant really say much bad about look n stop Its a really cool firewall :)
     
  5. Ph33r_

    Ph33r_ Guest

    WOW, now that’s pathetic!
    I’ve had this idea possibly that pcFlanks “Firewalls VS Leak tests” chart was irreverent now, but when I downloaded/Installed and Tested Agnitum Outpost Firewall Pro ver. 1.0.1817.1645… *NEWS FLASH* I personally found it pathetically lame how even such OLD Leaktests was capable of bypassing the most recent Officially released PRO versions Application Filtering Layer, And Lack of necessary Features not to mention even the windows “?’ help file was not found ("Cannot find the C:\Program Files\Agnitum\Outpost Firewall 1.0\opst_ui.HLP Help file. Check to see that file exists on your disk. If it doesn't, you need to reinstall it."). And I had no other 3rd party files running up Installation procedure…

    I sure hope Agnitum Outpost Firewall up-coming version 2.0 Official release finally resolves these outdated issues for its Customers sake!

    Btw: I’m more then happy to have had Uninstalled that * off my HDD after thorough testing, man what *!
     
  6. root

    root Registered Member

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    Outpost version 2 addresses the leak tests.
    You also will not find any other firewall that has the ability to make rules as easy and comprehensive as Outpost.
    Nothing is ever accomplished by getting into the my blah blah blah is better than yours arguements. People should try the different security programs before making judgements, and choose the one that suits them best.
    Outpost version 2 has been rebuilt from the bottom up. When it is released, I will do a write up on it to try to give the people an idea of what has been changed and what it can do.
    As for leak tests. There are several ways to produce "leaks" that have not even been explored yet. It would be an endless battle for firewall makers to keep coming up with fixes for leak after leak. That is why a sandbox approach is the best way to go in my opinion. For the time being, SSM is an excellent addition to ones security arsenal to deal with such exploits. It's free. :D
    I think in the future, all firewalls will want to use a sandbox approach to deal with new exploits being developed.
    The bad news is, that by the time firewall makers get a handle on all possible exploits, Longhorn will be released and we'll have to throw away all or Windows programs. :mad:
     
  7. jmschwartz

    jmschwartz Guest

    FWIW . . .

    Ph33r_ comments at 5:30 a.m. that "I can't really speak a lot about Outpost . . . ."

    However, only a few hours later, Ph33r_ declares:

    "Btw: I?m more then [sic] happy to have had Uninstalled that [Outpost] * off my HDD after thorough testing, man what *!"

    "Thorough testing," eh?

    Oh well, we must treat all guests with courtesy.

    Regards,
    Jim
    :D
     
  8. Patrice

    Patrice Registered Member

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    Hi jmschwartz,

    If you knew Ph33r_ then you would believe what he said. Yes, indeed it was thorough testing. Let's say he has knowledge about firewalls which is far over the average level... ;)

    Best regards,

    Patrice

    P.S. Anyone has done these Leak Tests with the Version 2 of Outpost (Beta)?
     
  9. Patrice

    Patrice Registered Member

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    Hi root,
    Thanks for your opinion, your view is always appreciated! Yes indeed, you're right what you're saying in your post. But we want to know if Outpost fails in these special tests, which should be quite well known among the developers of firewalls. We don't wanna talk about the rules-making ability nor the outside-inside protection of this firewall. They are surely good or even better than other firewalls! I also agree with your statement about SSM, the future will show where we are heading. The main goal of this thread is to find out if Agnitum did their homework or not. ;)

    Best regards,

    Patrice
     
  10. meneer

    meneer Registered Member

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    psssst, Patrice.... read what I wrote earlier in this thread...


    And this is what I wrote in the Outpost betatesters forum:

     
  11. Ph33r_

    Ph33r_ Guest

    Jmschwartz

    I’ve Downloaded and Installed Agnitum Outpost Firewall v1.0.1817.1645 and tested it thoroughly before commenting, unlike most I don’t need to have a Software Firewall Installed for more then few seconds to comprehend it and its Features. I’ve been testing Software Firewalls since day #1, but as of year or two now I’ve been too busy elsewhere to be testing out a lot of today’s popular Software Firewalls, but I do keep an watchful eye on what majority of the folks says and not to mention thoroughly reading through Firewalls Official products websites. And I had kept Outpost installed on my HDD for hours to run thorough tests on-it.

    I’m not offended by your post because I do know where you coming from, many people who made up their mind about something who gives something other-than a try?!?!?!? You know right there and then people going Install and Quickly Uninstall before giving a thing a chance, my mono is keep something Installed for at least an week to allow yourself to adapt to it and it’s Features before basing an Judgement on that.

    Though would you debate what I had said was not accurate? That Agnitum Outpost Firewall v1.0.1817.1645 or lower or it’s Free Versions (HAH) does in fact contain no Leaktests issues?


    Hey root

    Yea I’ve heard that Agnitum Outpost Firewall v2 addresses the Leaktests issues, I’ve not yet tested their beta version but if one could be so kind to send me the Installation file through E-mail or give me the direct download URL for it I would be more then happy to test it out and give my opinions to whomever is interested…

    Though this is true for you may not be true from another’s view, like use Look ‘n’ Stop for an Example; I find it extremely easy and comprehensive, in fact little too easy and comprehensive. However would you agree with me? Just like user _Tat_ finds Sygate Personal Firewall incredibly easy and comprehensive then something other-than, mainly because you focus on a thing and you determine to comprehend the basics or for the most part depending who you are. But when it comes to something else in its field you aren’t so determined because you already have something you found easy and comprehensive that appears to be an effective solution.

    You are absolutely right, but come-on you know it wasn’t quite so under these circumstances? I didn’t give comparison did I? Please tell me if I’m mistaking so I can learn from it…

    You quite fond of Outpost I can see, I apologize if I trampled on some toes.

    This is debatable; if such several ways was known to you don’t you think it would be known to others? And don’t you think there would have been some effort into producing such Leak-tests?

    Currently all 9 Leak-tests I know of my Firewall passes, is there other Leak-tests out there I don’t know of? If so you got the URLS?

    Remember everything has limitations, How much water can you drink, how much food can you eat, how far can you run, how fast you can go, how many push-ups can you do, how fast the Wind is blowing, how hard the Wind is blowing,

    I’m not looking for Software Firewalls with Sandbox like Features, and I doubt many would enjoy Software Firewalls containing Sandbox like Features once they see how much resources it’ll be needed to feed those types of Software Firewalls…

    As for Longhorn, well lets just say people going to have to-do a lot of Computer upgrading. And I don’t think them going like the idea about ditching all their current Windows Software any time soon…

    Regards,
     
  12. root

    root Registered Member

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    A lot of people have been waiting a long time for Outpost 2 so I don't think I'll be giving out copies. :D
    I was using Look N Stop before I used Outpost, and found I did not like the way rules are made and that's why I switched. LNS is a good firewall and I never speak badly of it. I just prefer Outpost and what I do is help people that may need help with Outpost and other security issues when I can.
    To date, I have not had one person come to the support board and say they had been compromised by a leak test type exploit.
    When version 2 is released. it will solve a lot of problems that were issues with the users, such as ICS support and Fast User switching.
    I am not touchy or sensitive about Outpost or any other program, but I have invested a lot of time and effort in helping people that do choose to use Outpost.
    What I like, what I find easy and convenient may not be the same as the next guys, but that's why there's choices.
    Outpost version 1 was released with some bugs. Most version 1's do get released with bugs. Version 2 is a vast improvement, but will not be perfect. Outpost is going to be a work in progress for some time as new features are added. Meanwhile, users can rest assured the firewall is doing the job it is supposed to.
    As for sandboxing, SSM works well for me. I personally think that is the safest approach. If others here don't think so - Ok.
    I am long past trying to convince others that any one program is the best for them. I have my preference, and I will recommend from time to time.
    I like Outpost, and I support it. I work with the Agnitum team to make it better and to find whats broke so it can be fixed.
    Sorry if I did not respond tit for tat, but I am pressed for time and not inclined to be arguementative.
    Have a nice day and enjoy your chosen products. I like to have a little fun on the net and I hope everyone else does too.
     
  13. Ph33r_

    Ph33r_ Guest

    Hey root

    That was beautiful; if you don’t mind me saying though unlike many Look ‘n’ Stop’s Rule Editing Feature uses proper Source/Destination notions for information accuracy, I agree it’s a bit confusing for even the average skilled fella but if you understand the proper Source/Destination notions then you should not have any problems.

    I made my first Look ‘n’ Stop Help guide called “What? Where? v1.1”, goal is to help needy folks in these areas.

    And like you I love to assist Look ‘n’ Stop Customers with bugs/issues and so on, and I love assisting Frederic the Author in bugs/issues & Suggestions and so on… I even own an Un-Official Look ‘n’ Stop Personal Firewall Forum. And soon I’ll have an Alternative Look ‘n’ Stop website up for the public to view and hopefully seek answers they looking for.

    I admire people like you who have dedication to particular products, and provide their assistance any way possible.

    Best Regards,
    Phant0m``
     
  14. root

    root Registered Member

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    Seems like an uphill battle sometimes, trying to get users interested in security, but all we can do is keep trying. It's not so hard helping people that want to learn. That's fun.
    If I can get just one more person to start using an AV, an AT or firewall, then that's one less person spreading bugs around the internet.
    Since I got involved with Outpost, I have learned a lot and am still learning. You have to learn when you're trying to help someone else understand how something works.
    It's been a long day and I need some food.
    ;)
     
  15. Ph33r_

    Ph33r_ Guest

    Like I said it doesn’t take me more then a few seconds to comprehend products especially Software Firewall products and its Features. ;)
     
  16. Smokey

    Smokey Registered Member

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    "Hearing others" is no well argument to compare firewalls or other security product in one word and to claim and say in another word that product "x" would do the job better then all others, only the own real experiences counts.
     
  17. Ph33r_

    Ph33r_ Guest

  18. chrisclu

    chrisclu Guest

     
  19. chrisclu

    chrisclu Guest

    Hi Patrice,
    I can't speak for Qsection but Outpost passed all of them. As I said in a previous post, I am beta testing version 2. Thanks, BTW for the list of leaktests. There were a couple I didn't know about. I know version 1 doesn't pass the tests but V2 will be out very soon. I can't tell you the date. :) ( I promised)
    Chris
     
  20. Patrice

    Patrice Registered Member

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    Hi chrisclu,

    would be nice if you could do these tests with Outpost version 2 (beta). I would like to know the results of these tests. Ph33r_ can give you even more links about Leak Tests. He was talking about 9 known Leak Tests. Ph33r_ can you add the links to those Leak Tests as well?

    Regards,

    Patrice
     
  21. Ph33r_

    Ph33r_ Guest

    Yalta (Yet another LeakTest Application) by Soft4ever
    LeakTest v1.2 by GRC
    TooLeaky by Bob Sundling
    FireHole v1.01 by Robin Keir
    Outbound by HackBusters
    AWFT (Atelier Web Firewall Tester) v3.0 by Atelier
    Thermite by Oliver Lavery
    Oops v2 by Tom Liston
    pcAudit v3.0.0.9 by _
     
  22. Patrice

    Patrice Registered Member

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    Thanks Phant0m! Now the Leak Test list is more complete! :D
     
  23. Ph33r_

    Ph33r_ Guest

  24. _anvil

    _anvil Guest

    Hmm, when I just tested Look'n'Stop against PCAudit, it failed. Am I doing something wrong? ;)
    (BTW: SSM fails, too, but not as "complete" as L'n'S...)
     
  25. JacK

    JacK Registered Member

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    Hello,

    Don't know ofr L n S but no problem at all with SSM ?
     
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