OS Selector help needed

Discussion in 'Acronis Disk Director Suite' started by MonstaDriva, Jun 21, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. MonstaDriva

    MonstaDriva Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Posts:
    25
    Hi , I have been succesfully running os selector for some time . Heres my setup and then my problem . My hard drive has 3 primary partitions . The 1st partition is windows xp and thats where disk director is installed . 2nd partition is also XP . 3rd partition is vista . Its all been working in harmony . Today I created a 4th partition (logical) and installed vista . I then reactivated OS selector and it works fine . The problem is I can no longer boot the windows xp on partition 1 . I get a message after I select it saying disk error . My 2nd partition XP boots fine . The 3rd parition vista has been hijacked by the new vista so when I select it the new vista boots up instead of the original vista . I haven't edited anything or tampered with it yet in hopes I can get some guidance here . It may not even be possible to make this work . I do have current images of the1st 3 partitions so I can easily restore back if I have to . I'll be glad to email any files to anyone to view and advise . I did notice a few new files added to my 1st partition like grldr . I suspect the new vista on the logical partition has taken over . Also the new vista boots fine but shows up as unknown operating system .I'm sure my procedure was wrong but I want to mention the 3rd vista partition was about 55 megs . I reduced the size to 26 to make room for this new partition but never did reboot the old vista . The size differential could be a problem if oss didn't update the new value . I have included the prior working bootwiz.oss from the win xp partition one that worked properly before i changed anything . It is bkupbootwiz.txt . It might not reflect the size change of the vitsa partition . when I boot vista I get a sub menu thats says vista or earlier windows . When I boot xp on the 2nd partition I do not get a sub menu . It boots normally .Thanks to anyone who can help me .
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 21, 2009
  2. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2006
    Posts:
    6,482
    Location:
    California
    Booting Vista or any version of Windows directly to a Logical partition requires some extra steps because the Windows boot manager will normally only boot from the Active Primary partition.

    Do you have the exact error message?

    Good.

    The BOOTWIZ file is showing that the new Vista is trying to boot from the first XP partition. However, I suspect that the actual files ended up on the Vista partition.

    Good. Were these created just prior to setting up the second Vista?

    Are they separate images for each partition or did you create an Entire Disk Image backup (the Disk # checkbox was checked)?

    Hopefully, you have already done previous successful restores so you know it works okay.

    Vista doesn't use grldr. That file is part of Grub4DOS.

    It's always best to reboot into Windows after you make a change to a partition so Windows can adjust. However, I don't think that's what caused this problem.

    ---

    Can you post a screenshot of what DD shows (in Manual Mode) for your drives?

    The problem now is that the booting files are messed up for at least two systems (XP 1 and Vista 1). Also, setting up a Logical partition for booting Windows is more difficult than a Primary partition.

    If you're comfortable starting over, that's what I would do. Use DD to delete the Vista 2 partition and then restore the XP 1 and Vista 1 partitions. At this point, make sure OSS can still boot okay into all three (OSS may need to be reactivated).

    Once the system is working again, I would create a new Entire Disk Image backup (if you have room). Don't delete your current backups.

    Do you have a standard Microsoft OEM or retail Vista DVD (one that can be used for boot repairs, using the Command Prompt, etc.)?

    If you're using TI for your backup images, what version and build are you using?
     
  3. MonstaDriva

    MonstaDriva Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Posts:
    25
    Thanks for the responce Mud . Rather than complicate matters , I took your advice to start over with a clean slate . that way we can concentrate on doing it correctly . I have restored everything to its original state except for the original size of the 1st vista partition. Everything is updated and boots fine . I'm including a screenshot of dd . The j partition (4th) is where the new vista resides but I'll delete that . I've made a combination backup of the first 3 partitions XP1 , XP2 and Vista 1 we'll call it .

    TI = 11.0 build 8,101

    DD = 10.0 build 2160 . I can do repairs with my vista cd . The vista cd is sp1 but vista 1 has been updated to sp2 . I'm pretty good with computers and acronis although not a whizz . I'm ready to follow your instructions to do this . I just want to install vista onto this 26 gig logical partition if possible . I'm including a screenshot of dd in manual mode as well as the current operable bootwiz.oss . thanks man
     

    Attached Files:

  4. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2006
    Posts:
    6,482
    Location:
    California
    First, I strongly recommend that you give your partitions labels. Just going by the drive letter can cause problems if you get them mixed up when booted to TI, for example.

    ---

    Please read through the entire instructions before you begin. This will help you to understand the process and may bring up some questions you will want answered before you start.

    ---

    The first step is to install the new Vista installation. This needs to be done to a Primary partition so the booting files are installed to the correct partition (the same one as the new OS).

    Note: For anyone else following these instructions, make sure to have a backup image of your drive before you begin.

    Follow these steps...

    Deactivate OSS and prepare for the new Vista installation:
    1. Deactivate OSS (do not uninstall it). Select Vista 1 as the default OS.
    2. Reboot after the deactivation and make sure Vista 1 starts correctly.
    3. Boot to the DD CD and start DD in Manual Mode.
    4. Make sure the Vista 1 partition is set Active.
    5. Make sure the XP 1 and XP 2 partitions are hidden.
    6. Apply any changes and exit DD.
    7. Boot into Vista 1 and make sure it still boots properly (it should).
    8. Vista's Disk Management should show the Vista 1 partition as the System and Boot partition. The XP partitions should be (Unknown Partition) (because they're hidden).
    9. You are now ready to install Vista 2.

    Install Vista 2:
    1. Since we need to install to a Primary partition and there are no available free partition table slots, we need to use one that already exists. In this scenario, we are using the Vista 1 partition which has already been backed up and can be restored after we're done.
    2. Boot to the Vista DVD.
    3. Select to install Vista.
    4. Select the Vista 1 partition. Vista will show the hidden XP partitions so make sure that you select the correct partition (Vista 1). You can use the partition sizes to help determine the correct one.
    5. Click on the correct partition to select it.
    6. Click the Advanced button and then the Format... option to reformat the Vista 1 partition. This will erase the existing contents and prepare it for a new installation. Note: If you choose to reformat the Vista partition using DD before booting to the Vista DVD, please still reformat the partition using the Vista installer. Windows has a problem installing correctly on partitions formatted by DD.
    7. Continue with the installation as normal. Any reboots during the installation should boot into the new installation.
    8. The C: drive letter should be assigned to the Vista partition when Vista is booted. If it's not, something went wrong.
    9. Once Vista is installed, you can update and install programs as desired. You can also wait to do this later, if you wish.

    Prepare Vista 2 for move to Logical partition:
    1. Boot into Vista 2 (if it's not already running).
    2. Clear the MountedDevices Registry entry. This is necessary because your installation will already know the assigned drive letter for the Logical partition and it will use it instead of C:. Start the Registry Editor and browse to the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\MountedDevices key. Remove (delete) all sub-entries except for (Default) (delete \DosDevices\C:, \DosDevices\D:, etc.). Do this as the last step before you create your backup image. Do not reboot into Vista 2 after doing this or you'll need to clear it again.

    Create a backup of Vista 2:
    1. Boot to your TI CD and create a backup image of the Vista 2 partition. This will allow an easy return to this state should it be necessary. If you wish to create the backup using TI in Vista, you'll need to install TI.
    2. This backup image will also be required if you select to use the backup/restore method to move the installation to the Logical partition.

    The new Vista installation must now be moved to the Logical partition. There are several methods you can use for this:
    1. Backup and Restore: Use TI to restore the image of the Vista 2 partition to the Logical partition. Do this from the TI CD and not from in Vista.
    2. Copy the Partition: Use DD to copy the Vista 2 partition. DD will only copy to Unallocated Space. If you use this method, you must first delete the existing Logical partition.
    Since you already have your partitions setup, I think I would try restoring the image first.

    Fix the Logical partition so it will boot:
    1. In order for the Logical partition to boot properly, the Hidden Sectors value in the boot sector of the partition needs to be changed to point to the first sector of the partition. This is done from the DD CD. Instructions can be found here.

    Once Vista 2 is restored or copied to the Logical partition, Vista 1 can be restored to its partition and OSS can be reactivated:
    1. Boot to the TI CD and restore your Vista 1 partition image back into its partition (this will replace the new Vista installation). Make sure to select Active as the partition type during the restore.
    2. Reactivate OSS.
    3. XP 1, XP 2 and Vista 1 should boot normally.

    Fix the BCD file on the Logical partition:
    1. Boot into Vista 1.
    2. Start a Command Prompt in Administrator Mode (instructions can be found here, if needed).
    3. Find out the drive letter assigned to the Vista 2 Logical partition. It was J: before and probably still will be. I will use J: in this example.
    4. Run the following commands at the prompt (<ENTER> means to press the ENTER key):
      Code:
      bcdedit /store J:\Boot\BCD /set {default} device partition=J: <ENTER>
      bcdedit /store J:\Boot\BCD /set {default} osdevice partition=J: <ENTER>
      bcdedit /store J:\Boot\BCD /set {bootmgr} device partition=J: <ENTER>
      bcdedit /store J:\Boot\BCD /set {memdiag} device partition=J: <ENTER>

    ---

    Hopefully, I didn't miss anything in the instructions.

    Once at this point, please repost your BOOTWIZ.OSS file so I can see it and add the Logical entry.

    This thread may be of interest to you. It deals with the same type of problem.

    If you run into any problems or have any questions, please post back.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2009
  5. MonstaDriva

    MonstaDriva Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Posts:
    25
    thanks , I've printed it all and I'm gonna get started . I'll post back as soon as I have it back up and get get on the net , thank you sir
     
  6. MonstaDriva

    MonstaDriva Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Posts:
    25
    Alright here is the current status I've done everything including the commands you gave me . the drive letter is g for the new vista because I haven't un-hidden the two xp partitions . They all boot up except for the new vista . I did change the hidden sectors value from 63 to 1 . Is that correct ? I presently have no icon for the new vista in os selector . Other than the hidden sector value and the lack of an icon I'm still on track . if you recall disk director and os selector are installed to XP1 which is the first partition . I dunno what to do now and am waiting on your reply . thanks
     
  7. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2006
    Posts:
    6,482
    Location:
    California
    When you say that G: is the drive letter for the new Vista (Vista 2), I assume you're referring to what it is when you're booted into Vista 1 (or one of your XP installations). Hopefully, it was C: when you installed Vista 2 and booted into Vista 2.

    The Hidden Sectors value of 1 is not correct. Please see the instructions again (linked here) and fix it. Figure 1.4 shows an example of the partition's starting sector number.

    Next, post the current BOOTWIZ.OSS file. OSS will not automatically add any Windows Logical partitions.
     
  8. MonstaDriva

    MonstaDriva Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Posts:
    25
    ok , I'm sorry i overlooked that in your instructions . I have edited it to the proper value . I did this from within windows . Should I reboot before I send this bootwizz.oss ? I'm sending it anyway and waiting . thanks
     

    Attached Files:

  9. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2006
    Posts:
    6,482
    Location:
    California
    Did you remove the G: partition from the screenshot in Post #3 and make the Vista 2 partition larger? It appears that way from the file.

    I've attached an updated BOOTWIZ.OSS file. Try it and see if you can boot into Vista 2. I set it up to hide the other Windows partitions. Please don't change those settings in OSS until it's booting properly. Assuming it boots, you can use Disk Management to assign the drive letters you want to the other non-hidden partitions.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. MonstaDriva

    MonstaDriva Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Posts:
    25
    hi , I did remove G . The new logical vista is G drive whenever I'm booted into xp or the old vista . I installed the new bootwiz and I now have an icon call vista logical . I can't boot because its giving me the can't find winload.exe error . When I click on properties for the new icon and view the files it has no files associated with the operating system . When I check for the other vista it shows bootmgr.sys associated with that one . I know we're close .
     
  11. MonstaDriva

    MonstaDriva Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Posts:
    25
    heres a little update . If I boot into xp and run disk director it shows as g drive . Its also actually g drive . If I run disk director from the cd before i boot it shows up there as E drive . not sure if that helps . It just gives me an error windows failed to start . it could be because of a hardware or software change . \windows\system32\winload.exe file either missing or corrupt . maybe this will help . In the pic this one doesn't have a write boot sector checkmark but all the other ones do .No files or folders associated with this op sys either
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 22, 2009
  12. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2006
    Posts:
    6,482
    Location:
    California
    Boot into Vista 1, start a Command Prompt in Administrator Mode and run the following command:
    Code:
    bcdedit /store g:\boot\bcd <ENTER>
    Please copy and paste the output into a post.
     
  13. MonstaDriva

    MonstaDriva Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Posts:
    25
    ok , had to take a screen shot as it wouldn't let me highlight and copy. Could the fact its showing as Drive E before actually boot be throwing windows xp bootwiz.oss off ? You see its only drive g after boot because of my assignments . The assignments don't matter to me so I can change anything I need to and adapt it all .
     

    Attached Files:

    • req.jpg
      req.jpg
      File size:
      103.7 KB
      Views:
      0
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2009
  14. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2006
    Posts:
    6,482
    Location:
    California
    Are you running Vista SP1 or Vista SP2 in the Logical partition (Vista 2)?

    Mount the Registry for Vista 2 (on the Logical partition) and post a screenshot of the MountedDevices key.

    1. Start the Registry Editor.
    2. Click on the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE key to select it.
    3. Click on the File menu and select Load Hive...
    4. Select the G: partition (the Vista 2 Logical partition).
    5. Browse to the G:\Windows\System32\config folder.
    6. Select the system file and click the Open button.
    7. A box will come up asking for the Key Name.
    8. Type in Vista2_System and click the Ok button.
    9. You should now see the Vista2_System entry added to your local registry under the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE key.
    10. Browse to the MountedDevices entry.
    11. Take a screenshot.
    12. Unload the Hive by clicking on Vista2_System to highlight it, selecting the File menu and then selecting Unload Hive... Finally, click Yes and then close the registry editor.

    There is a sample of this procedure along with a screenshot in this post. Please note that this link is for another purpose, but the general steps are the same.
     
  15. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2006
    Posts:
    6,482
    Location:
    California
    Can you also post screenshots of the following:

    What DD (in Manual Mode) shows for your partitions?

    What Disk Management in Vista 1 shows?
     
  16. MonstaDriva

    MonstaDriva Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Posts:
    25
    vista sp1 in the logical , updated to sp2 in the vista 1 , I don't have dd installed in vista but it reflects the same thing that disk manage shows , same drive letters and size . heres the screenshots yu requested . I can exit vista and reboot in xp if you want to see the dd partition shot . I rebooted into xp and took the dd screenshot . It would be the same for vista1 except of course xp is c drive now and vista1 is H . G is the same to both of them , G being the vista logical . If I could take a screenshot of vista 2 logical in DD from preboot with cd it would show vista logical as E drive .
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 22, 2009
  17. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2006
    Posts:
    6,482
    Location:
    California
    I'm going to have to think on this for a bit. Something must not be right.

    What sector number did you put into the Hidden Sectors field of the Logical partition's boot sector?

    Can you please post the current BOOTWIZ.OSS file? I want to see if anything has changed in it.

    Can you also please repeat the Post #12 instructions for the bcdedit output, but use the following options:
    Code:
    bcdedit /store g:\boot\bcd /enum all <ENTER>
    You can copy the text from the Command Prompt window by right-clicking on it and selecting the Mark option. After you've highlighted the text with the mouse, press the ENTER key to copy it to the clipboard. You can then paste it as normal text into a CODE box in a post, for example.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2009
  18. MonstaDriva

    MonstaDriva Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Posts:
    25
    heres what you requested attached . I have a feeling you thrive on the challenge :) . Hidden sectors is 138400038 , that was the absolute number it showed like 138,400,038 so I typed it in without the comma's .
     

    Attached Files:

  19. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2006
    Posts:
    6,482
    Location:
    California
    The Hidden Sectors value is what I thought it should be so I think that's correct.

    Nothing in the files is jumping out at me as incorrect.

    It may be helpful to see the bcdedit output how Vista will when it tries to boot to Vista 2. Can you do the following:
    1. Deactivate OSS (don't uninstall). Select Vista 1 as the default.
    2. Boot to the DD CD and start DD in Manual Mode.
    3. Hide the two XP partitions and the Vista 1 partition.
    4. Apply the changes.
    5. Boot to the Vista DVD and enter the Repair Mode. Cancel any automatic repairs.
    6. Open the Command Prompt and figure out which drive letter has been assigned to the Vista 2 Logical partition. You should be able to tell by using the dir x: command (where x is a drive letter).
    7. Run bcdedit /store x:\boot\bcd (replace x with the correct drive letter).
    8. Make note of (or copy) the output. I'm interested in how the partition pointers are displayed.
    9. You can reactivate OSS when you're finished.
     
  20. MonstaDriva

    MonstaDriva Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Posts:
    25
    I did as you asked , it all looked the same except every reference was to D:
    every pointer was D
    I then unhid the other partitions and rebooted with the vista dvd , it still showed D: even with os selector activated

    from the dd cd it still shows e: . It can't find winload.exe and there are no files or folders associated with it in os slector properties

    one more thing . I ran a little test . I deactivated oss and made the logical vista the active op sys then rebooted . it does try to start . it begins booting then a message comes up it can't run the autochek program , it says skipping autochek , then you see the thing come up with the little green bar like vista is loading , then a few seconds later it just reboots itself . it just seems like its not quite sure where to find itself and its own files . I was going to try and redo the bcdedit /set stuff to point at d drive but it won't let me change that and can't set the elemental data . Is that a one time thing when you set those parameters it won't let you rest them ? I'm gonna be out today for a few hours but I will check just as soon as i get home . Don't feel bad if this won't work and if we need to toss in the towel on it its np . I can repeat the whole procedure over if you want me to . Its not a problem for me to wipe it all and begin anew because my computer is really just a hobby and I wipe my drives, restore images , test and do stuff all the time so its easy and i have lots of current images at varying stages . I can def do this thing over if need be . If I run that bcdedit store command from vista one all the pointers are g: . if I run it from vista dvd all its pointers are D: . Maybe I should have run all the set commands yesterday from the vista dvd and set them to D : instead of vista 1 ? Is that possible ?
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2009
  21. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2006
    Posts:
    6,482
    Location:
    California
    That's what I suspected. Did you notice which partition was assigned C:? I would guess it's the first Primary partition on the second hard drive.

    When an OS entry is added manually, there are no file or folder associations. This doesn't cause a problem. OSS doesn't need to track the files.

    There are still a few things we can try.

    The drive letters used in the BCD file are dynamic (they change to adjust to the letter assigned to the partition by the currently loaded Windows). It wouldn't make a difference if the changes were made from a booted Windows (like you did) or from the Vista DVD.

    ---

    Try this first:

    Edit the properties of the Vista 2 Logical entry in OSS and hide all the partitions on the second hard drive. Leave only the Vista 2 Logical partition unhidden. See if it boots, gives a different error and has a different problem.

    If that doesn't work, physically disconnect the second hard drive and try booting Vista 2 (leave the XP and Vista 1 partitions hidden).
     
  22. MonstaDriva

    MonstaDriva Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Posts:
    25
    I tried both and it couldn't find winload.exe . How did you want me to edit the properties of of vista 2 ? At this point I'm about ready to replace the 2nd physical drive and just create a primary partition on it to install vista to . I'm going to wanna install windows 7 pretty soon so do you think I'd be ahead to scratch this logical drive experment and do that ? I have a 160 gig handy and that would allow me to just stick to primary partitions . I think I lost ground somehow because now i can't even get it to try and boot .
     
  23. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2006
    Posts:
    6,482
    Location:
    California
    By editing the properties of Vista 2, I meant to right-click on the OSS Vista 2 Logical entry, select Properties and then Partitions and hide everything but the Vista 2 partition. However, this doesn't matter since it still didn't work when you removed the other drive.

    I don't have time right now to run some tests, but want to later. I want to understand why it's not working. I don't think the problem is with OSS. Vista is having a problem somewhere with the Logical partition.

    Installing to Primary partitions is much easier. If you're going to add Windows 7 soon, it may be the easiest solution at this point. I would restore the original drive back to its working condition (if it's currently not). Next, I would disconnect the two existing drives and connect the new 160GB drive so that only the 160GB drive is connected. Use DD to create the Primary partition the size you want and to set it Active. Finally, install Vista normally (have Vista's installer reformat the partition) or restore your Vista 2 image from before (restore as an Active partition).

    Once Vista is booting properly, reinstall your other drives, set the original booting drive as the BIOS booting drive and reactivate OSS. It should pick up the new OS. However, it may enable disk swapping (the Disk Order option), which doesn't work with Vista. If it does, just disable that option. If OSS doesn't find the new Vista, post the updated BOOTWIZ.OSS file and I'll add it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2009
  24. MonstaDriva

    MonstaDriva Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Posts:
    25
    sounds good, where would i find the dsk swapping option at ? also the drive im replacing is the secondary drive . if i do that and rehook the primary drive back up is that gonna be a problem ? Last question . My current D: is like a common data drive for my current 3 operating systems . I install most programs to D and need to keep that drive letter intact . If I create a primary partition on the secondary for my d and create another primary for vista and even another for windows 7 is that going to be a problem ? I can also just add this drive in on the wecondary channel with my dvd burner but i've always heard pairing a fast drive with a slow drive like a cd or dvd slows the fast drive way down . any advice ?
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2009
  25. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2006
    Posts:
    6,482
    Location:
    California
    It's in the Properties >> Disks section for the OS entry in OSS. You would make sure that the Specify boot order manually option is not checked.

    It shouldn't cause a problem. The main thing is to have only the "new" Vista drive connected when you install it and then set the original drive back as the booting drive before you reactivate OSS. This is because OSS is already on the original booting drive.

    If you're going to restore your Vista 2 image as an Active partition to the new drive, I still recommend doing it with the other drive disconnected so TI doesn't try to get smart and mess up any of your Windows booting files on the other drive.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.