Opinion upcomming Ubuntu 16.04 LTS

Discussion in 'all things UNIX' started by rrrh1, Jan 14, 2016.

  1. pandorax

    pandorax Registered Member

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    According to that policy, they have right collecting the queries even if you disable it. Shuttleworth doesn't say something that we don't know in a disgusting way by saying "we have root"
     
  2. Daveski17

    Daveski17 Registered Member

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    So, apart from trolling, you don't actually have a point do you?
    I thought as much.
     
  3. pandorax

    pandorax Registered Member

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    It looks like everyone who states facts is a troll to you. Read the policy again.
     
  4. Amanda

    Amanda Registered Member

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    Well, this just made my day :) Thank you very much.

    Have a nice Sunday.
     
  5. Daveski17

    Daveski17 Registered Member

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    No, you haven't actually stated anything coherent, let alone anything that could possibly be described as a fact. And trolling me about it isn't making your non-existent point anyway. You have an opinion, that's all. You aren't stating any facts, that's my point. You are just repeating FUD through implication and obfuscation. I'm fully aware of Canonical's actions. Thanks for making my point for me though.

    "Shuttleworth doesn't say something that we don't know in a disgusting way by saying "we have root""

    The use of the adjective 'disgusting' here is purely subjective and emotive. It adds nothing factual to the conversation. It is your opinion, that's all.

    Is it cold standing under that bridge all day? :argh:
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2016
  6. stapp

    stapp Global Moderator

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    Unless the name calling and bickering stops, this thread will be locked.

    Get back on topic please.
     
  7. Amanda

    Amanda Registered Member

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    Thank you!
     
  8. Daveski17

    Daveski17 Registered Member

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    Unfortunately, starting any topic about Ubuntu on Wilders will lead to the same thing. It is a shame, but it has become an unfortunate reality.
     
  9. Amanda

    Amanda Registered Member

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    @topic @OP (PART 2)

    Things to consider:

    SITUATION 1

    The user will encounter situations where his/her favorite software isn't present on Ubuntu or any other Linux Distro. That has at least to main causes:

    • The software developer, e.g Autodesk and their Autocad program, hasn't ported their software to Linux. Remember the market share thing I said on this post? Even though Ubuntu might have one of the biggest userbase between Linux distros, Linux itself doesn't have such a large userbase on the Desktop market, reaching between 1 and 1.4% of all computers out there. [1] [2]
    • Ubuntu developers have decided not to make the program available;

    HOW TO FIX THE SITUATION

    If the program isn't found on the repos, there is a very high chance that ALTERNATIVES have been developed. For example, GIMP is a very good and popular alternative to Photoshop. Blender is the best alternative for Maya or 3DSMAX, and it (Blender) respects user Freedoms and is completely free of charge. Another example is Inkscape as an alternative to CorelDraw, also free as in freedom and in price.

    But if no alternative is found, which is a rare thing, the user could install Windows in Virtualbox and then run the program there. Or he/she could try a simpler way, which is running the program with the help of Wine. No, it's not the Wine you drink every night ;) It's this one.

    If the program isn't present because of licensing issues, it's always good to make sure the user knows about the GNU Philosophy: https://www.gnu.org/ https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/philosophy.html

    SITUATION 2

    In Windows, the user mostly installs programs by searching for them on the web, downloading a binary executable, then running it as administrator. This is NOT the way things go on Linux, at least for 99.9% of users. Using this method is dangerous because regular users most likely don't know the original website for the application, and they might download a fake program that is disguised as a virus.

    Linux distros have what is called a "Repository", or "Repo". A repo is a place where only assigned and trusted developers have access to, and this is the place where the developers put the programs that you will use. They give a look at the source-code of the programs to look for malware/viruses/backdoors/etc, and if everything is clean they make the programs available for install. This method used in Linux (and probably MacOS too) guarantees that the user will always install letigimate programs. This is also why you update your entire system when updating Linux (contrary to Windows), because all programs, including OS's stuff like the Kernel, is located there on the repositories.

    Every distro has different ways for installing software. In Ubuntu, a user might chose to use a Graphical program to install/remove/update software, like the Ubuntu Software Center or Synaptic; but he/she may also chose the Terminal to do so.

    And don't be scared of the Terminal. As far as I know, Ubuntu can be managed with very little Terminal control, and when a necessity arises the user has a good ammount of forums to ask for help. Someone is always looking to help a newcomer.

    SITUATION 3

    If the user Dual-Boots, it may happen that Windows will take control over the Master Boot Record. This means that, when you turn your computer on, you might not see the Ubuntu menu. Don't worry, it's easily fixable.
    Remember that you probably have an installation media (like USB or CD/DVD), so grab a hold of that and contact us if that happens. It takes a few minutes to fix.
     
  10. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    Maybe so, depending on how they handle it. But just saying that "anonymity is preserved because [they] handle the query" is vague. Preserving anonymity is nontrivial.
    That is disingenuous. The system has root. But third parties virtually never have root, even Canonical, unless the system has been pwned. In order to install and update apps, users run apps like aptitude and apt-get as root to get and install packages as root. But that's not necessary. One can download packages as user, check them out, and then install offline as root. Or one can just use source. Everything except "make install" can be done as user.
    That is true. But "screw up on your machine" is again disingenuous. Canonical isn't on my machine. I'm just installing stuff from them. I compile and/or install stuff from GitHub, but GitHub isn't on my machine. It may seem like I'm being tedious about wording. But the point is simple: Whose machine is it? I use Linux and *BSD because there's general agreement that the machine is mine. Implications that it's not fully mine are disturbing.
    Yes, I do. But only to the extent that they deserve that trust. When people violate trust, they risk never regaining it.
    Well, OK, so Canonical is addressing it in 16.04 it seems. I've already moved on. But maybe I'll start recommending it again for new Linus users. The other issue for me is that it's become too bloated. But whatever ...
    As I said, when people violate trust, they risk never regaining it.
     
  11. Daveski17

    Daveski17 Registered Member

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    Maybe so, but this is your opinion, no matter how discursive it is. It is also a subjective opinion.

    I, like many, don't feel particularly violated or betrayed by the Ubuntu Shopping Lens. If you don't like Ubuntu, don't use it.

    People who insist on describing the Shopping Lens as spyware are doing so in an unproven and unfounded way.

    I think if you feel so strongly you should really take this up with Shuttleworth. I understand the need for Canonical to need to fund development if Ubuntu is ever going to become more than just another distro.

    All I want is a Linux alternative to MS and Apple that is reliable, well supported and has some form of future. I believe Ubuntu is approaching this, albeit in an inchoate way. However, this inevitably comes at a price. Shuttleworth is on record somewhere stating that he wants to keep Ubuntu as freeware. In which case he has had to make decisions regarding funding it.

    Some have objected to these decisions, some are more sanguine about them.
     
  12. Amanda

    Amanda Registered Member

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    In addition, it seems the results are displayed on http connections, so it doesn't matter if Canonical thinks they're doing a good job, because they're not.

    Yes. That sentense from Canonical does make it seem like they have some sort of backoor. I'm not saying they do, but that sentense rases my eyebrow. If I'm a developer and say "I have root to other people's systems", one can only imagine what that means. Canonical shouldn't have root to any personal computer that doesn't belong to them.

    Users can install things as non-root if they tell cmake to install in a particular folder in their /home. Like this:

    Code:
    if [ "$RECONFIGURE" = "y" ]; then
    cd "$CBD"
    mkdir -p build/openscenegraph
    cd "$CBD"/build/openscenegraph
    rm -f CMakeCache.txt
    cmake -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE="Release" \
    -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX:PATH="$INSTALL_DIR_OSG" ../../openscenegraph/ 2>&1 | tee -a $LOGFILE
    fi
    This is part of the script that downloads openscenegraph from git, compiles it, then (this part) installs the binaries inside the compilation folder, which is inside the user /home folder somewhere.

    Well, sure. But I think what they mean is that you trust that their commits upon the software you're installing from them won't screw up your machine, like it happened on the past, frequently. Remember a time where you updated the Kernel and Xorg didn't work? I think that's what they meant.

    Agreed.

    Exactly what I've been saying for several months. Nobody can look at the source code of every program to check if they're clean, so we must have a trust in our community of developers.

    Yes. However, many 12.04 and 14.04 users will still have their local searches forwarded without their consent. Unless Canonical removed the lens from these two LTS releases too and I'm not aware of it?

    :thumb:
     
  13. SweX

    SweX Registered Member

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    :thumb:
     
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