Once your car's connected to the Internet, who guards your privacy?

Discussion in 'privacy general' started by ronjor, Sep 18, 2014.

  1. ronjor

    ronjor Global Moderator

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  2. Rmus

    Rmus Exploit Analyst

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    Thanks, Ron, for the article.

    I may go back to the bicycle.


    ----
    rich
     
  3. Tarnak

    Tarnak Registered Member

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    I am driving the same old car for many years...can't be tracked, only photographed.
     
  4. JRViejo

    JRViejo Global Moderator

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  5. Tarnak

    Tarnak Registered Member

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    @JRViejo

    We have that here, but I don't see that many police vehicles in my travels...so, there. :) As far as I know, they haven't got that in traffic lights... There are some intersections, that if you go through a red light, it will take a picture, and you will get the fine[penalty notice] in the mail.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2014
  6. noone_particular

    noone_particular Registered Member

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    I wonder if it would be possible to blind the cameras using reflective coatings and UV or another wavelength that's not visible to the naked eye.
     
  7. ronjor

    ronjor Global Moderator

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    https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2014/09/security_for_ve.html
     
  8. lotuseclat79

    lotuseclat79 Registered Member

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    As I understand it, there are some license plate holders that accomplish something like that - I seem to recall. Don't know if they are legal or not though, might be where the state does not yet have a law to regulate such things.
     
  9. ronjor

    ronjor Global Moderator

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    http://www.infosecurity-magazine.com/news/investors-drive-4mn-into-car/
     
  10. inka

    inka Registered Member

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    At the very least (and I expect more than just this), I expect OnStar to monetize its "anonymized" data by selling subscriptions to law enforcement agencies, enabling cops to not only glean locations where speeding typically (or consistently) occurs... but enabling them to see real-time (or near real-time) the location of each overspeed vehicle. Ah, like shooting fish in a barrel.

    Instead of putting tech to "helpful, preventative use" by, say, enabling the car to sense the legal speed limit of the section of road its travelling, and audibly warning the driver (or applying a limiter/governor)... nooooo, we'll wind up with the tech being used against us (allowing us to shoot self in foot, then tattling on us).
     
  11. ronjor

    ronjor Global Moderator

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    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/19-automakers-vow-to-protect-driver-privacy/
     
  12. TheWindBringeth

    TheWindBringeth Registered Member

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    Warning: It is strongly advised that anti-nausea medication be taken and allowed to reach optimum serum levels before proceeding to the following links.

    www.automotiveprivacy.com
    www.globalautomakers.org/topic/privacy

    full Consumer Privacy Protection Principles (Edit: PDF)
    http://www.autoalliance.org/index.cfm?objectid=CC629950-6A96-11E4-866D000C296BA163

    If you feel better about security/privacy in an automotive context after reading the material at those links, please seek immediate medical attention.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2014
  13. hawki

    hawki Registered Member

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  14. hawki

    hawki Registered Member

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    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 13, 2014
  15. lotuseclat79

    lotuseclat79 Registered Member

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    Automakers aim to drive away car computer hackers.

    -- Tom
     
  16. lotuseclat79

    lotuseclat79 Registered Member

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  17. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    Right, just like all of the other "Internet of Things" stuff.

    People need to get seriously sued over these failures!

    But that hasn't happened over routers, has it? Maybe after Lizard Squad, we'll see some accountability.
     
  18. driekus

    driekus Registered Member

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    Maybe they wanted to get an early start on installing backdoors for the NSA.

    Seriously think of the advertising possibilities. Say you own a smash repair shop you could set up an antenna out the front and program a few crashes.
     
  19. deBoetie

    deBoetie Registered Member

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    From current Obama proposals, just the opposite - corporations get more immunity, not less. I don't think the security landscape will improve that much until businesses are properly affected on the bottom-line.

    As far as the new smart cars are concerned, there are so many unfortunate accidents that can happen to wireless/radio devices. Boiling oil being a favourite.
     
  20. noone_particular

    noone_particular Registered Member

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    Anyone know what antenna that snapshot uses? If the antenna is built in, a grounded foil wrapping should defeat it. I suspect that these are going to become the norm and be required for getting insured.
     
  21. Mayahana

    Mayahana Banned

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    This is great, and exciting for many reasons..

    I drive a 2014 BMW 300 series, the thing practically drives itself. If there is any snow/ice on the ground I literally cannot force it to slide into a ditch or spin out. I love the technolgy, and don't doubt that it has 'hundreds' of CPU's and Subnets in it. Privacy protocols need to be established. The problem is our government is littered with relics from the Telegraph Era who don't understand any of this. We need young blood in there that can move us forward into the future.

    AV's for cars? It's coming.. The first AV's for Smart-Appliances is in development already (personally - a UTM in the home solves this issue). Nevertheless, IT is growing so huge nobody can keep up with talent, and now we need IT for cars! I'm pretty happy about all of that. :thumb:
     
  22. noone_particular

    noone_particular Registered Member

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    I can reluctantly accept the idea of self correcting systems for steering, brakes, etc. A lot of people have never had to drive in the severe winter conditions we see here. I wouldn't expect someone who's lived in Florida all of their life to handle deep drifts in the roads. Regarding:
    I see cars like that in the ditch quite regularly, those and 4-wheel drive vehicles. Your description describes the reason, over-confidence which leads to over-driving the conditions. With the vehicle automatically compensating for road conditions, the driver can easily underestimate how slick a road can be. IMO, those self correcting features are substituting for driver skill.
    That said, systems like these don't need to be exposed to the internet at any time. They should be completely isolated and self contained. The collateral damage that malware or a hacker could do is extreme. A system failure at the wrong time could be just as bad, especially if the driver can't handle bad conditions without the help of those systems.
     
  23. Mayahana

    Mayahana Banned

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    You have to be an idiot to spin out/ditch higher end cars with AWS type systems, which means you were driving way beyond the parameters of the system, and what's considered reasonable driving under those conditions.. Seriously. But hey, no shortage of idiots -right? Every car I see in ditches are older ones, with crappy traction control, which really has nothing to do with these new systems, which actually take over your car by using something like 100 million variables a second.. Bottom line - the tech works, and I love it.
     
  24. noone_particular

    noone_particular Registered Member

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    Idiots on the road do seem to be a dime a dozen. Around here, new and old alike end up there. This is lake snowbelt country. The big problem here is how fast conditions change over very short distances, even on the main highways. It's the 4WD and AWD vehicles that really end up way off the road. Thanks to the extra traction, they underestimate how slick it really is. Myself, I prefer a vehicle that allows me to feel what the road is really like.

    All that aside, I intend to avoid internet-able vehicles for as long as possible. I don't see it as necessary or desirable. Internet access, especially for the driver is just more distractions. Drivers are too distracted now. Too many of the so-called features are designed to accommodate distracted drivers, like the warning that tells you when you're crossing into oncoming lanes. IMO, this stuff is creating drivers who can't drive without electronic assistance. As for the vehicle systems, I see no good reason for the control systems to be exposed. The risks badly outweigh any possible benefits.

    As for Progressive's Snapshot and any similar "services", it'll be a cold day in hell it end up in anything I drive. When and where I go isn't their concern.
     
  25. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    You can also tweak the system for different driving styles, right?

    Edit: I drive a fairly old Civic hatchback. It's what I can afford, and what I can afford to total ;) It has anti-lock braking, which I've come to love. Although I rarely need it, it's occasionally been invaluable :eek: And so I can imagine that smarter automation could prove similarly useful. But only as long as it didn't cramp my style :D
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2015
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