"Old" FDISR, FDR & RBrx

Discussion in 'FirstDefense-ISR Forum' started by Teknokrat, May 6, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Teknokrat

    Teknokrat Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2007
    Posts:
    95
    Location:
    First Life? (Sweden)
    Hi!
    I'm sorry if I'm dense but I haven't figured out the all the distinct features and/or differences between these three programs.

    I know that (HorizonDataSys) FirstDefense Rescue is a somewhat crippled version of (Raxco/Leapfrog) FirstDefense-ISR, limited to 2 snapshots. What about RollBack Rx Pro? Isn't that more like the old FDR?

    Yes, I'm quite new to backup software methods & technologies and I really would appreciate to hear a brief explanation of the similarities/differences.

    thank you in advance!

    /T
     
  2. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Posts:
    9,455
    I know what FDISR does for me. I know for certain, that FDISR Rescue can't do it.
    I'm not 100% sure that RBRx can be used as FDISR with the same results, but my assumption is that RBRx can't replace FDISR, there are too many basic differences between both.

    Comparing FDISR with RBRx is useless, because FDISR is dead and RBRx is alive.
    So you better find out, if RBRx meets your wishes.
    If you ask me to choose between FDISR and RBRx, the answer is FDISR.
    If you ask me to choose between RBRx and all the other ISR-softwares, the answer is RBRx, but I'm glad, I don't have to make that choice.

    I have at least 5-10 years to wait for an alternative, so I'm not in a hurry to try anything else, unless it's better than FDISR. Until now, I didn't see anything that comes even close to FDISR.
    I don't work with software names, I work with functions, possibilities, combinations, ideas and then I choose the software to do the job.
    FDISR didn't meet all my wishes, but more than enough to keep it and not to replace it.
     
  3. Woody777

    Woody777 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Posts:
    484
    I agree that FDISR is the program to have. I have now come to the conclusion that only FDISR will in fact protect my computer. It seems that no amount of effort to keep malware off my computer will be 100 pct successful. I am going to use FDISR & Returnil & give up on the never ending installation of security apps that really don't work.
     
  4. farmerlee

    farmerlee Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2006
    Posts:
    2,585
    Rollback and firstdefense are similar in that they both allow you to take snapshots of your system. The main difference between them is that a firstdefense snapshot records the entire system partition so each snapshot can be quite large in size and take a fair amount of time. A rollback snapshot only records changes made since the last snapshot so each snapshot is smaller and takes less time. Firstdefense does have a few extra features not found in rollback such as the ability to freeze snapshots and the ability to install different operating systems.
     
  5. Huupi

    Huupi Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Posts:
    2,024
    Never used Rollback,and in howfar its build on keeping archives on external media,strong asset with FDISR is just this possibility ! ;)
     
  6. MaB69

    MaB69 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2005
    Posts:
    540
    Location:
    Paris
    Hi,

    Nicely summarized farmerlee but RBX has this feature too : you can schedule at each restart to restore a given snapshot

    Regards,

    MaB
     
  7. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    17,040
    Note also that once a snapshot or archive is built with First Defense, the update process is much quicker.
     
  8. Huupi

    Huupi Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Posts:
    2,024
    Once again,is Rollback similar to FDISR in the way it keeps archives onto external media,or are all snapshots on the system partition,if so then its worthless in the light of most worstcase scenarios o_O :(
     
  9. Teknokrat

    Teknokrat Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2007
    Posts:
    95
    Location:
    First Life? (Sweden)
    Thank you all for the input! I appreciate it.

    The obvious follow up question is:
    Is there ANY way a legal license for FD-ISR can be obtained (OTHER than finding someone who is willing to sell his or hers - please note - this is NOT a request to buy/trade licenses from members here)?

    @Huupi
    It seems most of the ppl using FD-ISR also have "regular" imaging software in combination with FD-ISR.
    I've decided to go for the BING/IFW/IFD-solution in imaging software - they offered a nice bundle I couldn't resist :)

    Once again - thanks for your replies.

    regards,
    T
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2008
  10. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    17,040
    Rollback doesn't have a comparable archive setup. Although to some degree the same in concept, they are totally different under the hood.
     
  11. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    17,040
    Non that I know of at this time. The original FDISR product is no longer on the market.
     
  12. farmerlee

    farmerlee Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2006
    Posts:
    2,585
    Rollback has no archive feature and cannot store snapshots on external media. They're all stored on the system drive. In a worst case scenario rollback won't save you and neither will fd-isr. This is where you need a backup solution like trueimage.
     
  13. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2007
    Posts:
    5,632
    Location:
    U.S.A. (South)
    With the "Old" (Genuine) as i like to call it FD-ISR, you can (i do), virtually mothball your image backup program so long as you keep UP-TO-DATE FirstDefense .archives to an alternate Hard Drive partition.

    I've practiced this for many months and found FD archives valuable assets in much the same way as a backup image.

    However, a good backup image is a *MUST in any case, in spite of the fact that FD-ISR archives serve the same purpose for me and have drastically reduced dependency on my choice backup app.

    EASTER
     
  14. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Posts:
    9,455
    Me,
    1. First I create a SP-image for each snapshot
    2. Then I convert each SP-image into a FDISR-archive
    3. Then I convert each FDISR-archive into a FDISR-snapshot
    So I reversed the normal procedure : Image ---> Archive ---> Snapshot,
    while the normal procedure is : Snapshot ---> Archive ---> Image.

    This way,
    1. I don't need the function "Empty Snapshot" anymore, which I never liked.
    2. I can re-create my FDISR-archives, even when they are corrupted.
    3. I can re-create my snapshots.
    So the very reliable ShadowProtect is #1 and FDISR is #2.

    I don't think I can do this with RollbackRx & Chkdsk.
    After reading the recent Eaz-Fix Problem Post, I still say : "HDS terminated the wrong ISR-software".
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2008
  15. Huupi

    Huupi Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Posts:
    2,024
    How do you do that ? o_O

    Its my understanding that imaging/recover with SP can only be done with whole partitions or volumes with using the CD.
     
  16. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    17,040
    Hi Farmerlee

    Not quite true. With the full version of FDISR, I keep Archives on a 2nd drive, and external drive. If my c: drive failed and I replace it, I can do a clean windows install. Then I install FDISR. Once installed I create a secondary snapshot from my archive of the secondary snapshot. Boot to it. Then update the primary(which was a clean windows install) from the primary archive, and boot back to primary. I am now totally recovered. Not as quick as an image, but quite doable.

    Pete
     
  17. Huupi

    Huupi Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Posts:
    2,024
    The way you described i recovered once,but admit imaging is a faster solution.
     
  18. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Posts:
    9,455
    Maybe I said it wrong, but it's quite simple. I just can't talk in English like in Dutch.

    Each needed snapshot has Windows + Applications. I have two WORK snapshots, with a different collection of softwares, but some softwares are double, because I need them in both snapshots.

    1. I install Windows + Applications of needed snapshot#1 on a zeroed HDD, like a normal installation.
    When everything is configured, I install FDISR with only ONE snapshot, because I don't need the second snapshot.
    Then I create an archive with the FDISR copy/update function.
    Then I create an image with ShadowProtect.
    So I have an image and an archive of snapshot#1 at the end.
    Then I can use the same HDD for another installation.

    2. I install Windows + Applications of needed snapshot#2 on a zeroed HDD, like a normal installation.
    When everything is configured, I install FDISR with only ONE snapshot, because I don't need the second snapshot.
    Then I create an archive with the FDISR copy/update function.
    Then I create an image with ShadowProtect.
    So I have an image and an archive of snapshot#2 at the end.

    3. I restore the image of snapshot#1 which has FDISR already with snapshot#1.
    Then I do a copy/update from archive#2 to a new snapshot.
    Now I have my COMPLETE actual system partition with 2 snapshots : snapshot#1 and snapshot#2
    I can also start with restore the image of snapshot#2, if I want this as first snapshot.

    This is the basic principle, but not the full explanation.
    When you want two working snapshots, you have to plan this ahead to avoid double work.
    I have an image of Windows alone.
    I have an image of Windows + Applications, common for both snapshots.
    If you need only ONE work snapshot, everything is more simple of course.

    What is created in 1. and 2. is my "clean" and "unused" system partition and that is the base for my actual system partition.
    Each time I need an upgrading or a new software, I don't use my actual system partition.
    I use my "clean" and "unused" system partition and then I recreate my actual system partition as described in 3.

    Why I'm doing this in such way is a part of my philosophy.
    1. Most users keep their system partition "clean" with a collection of security softwares and they trust these softwares.
    I don't trust any of my security softwares and I know they fail by reading posts.
    I understand these failures, but I don't like the changes in my system partition due to these failures. These failures create resident malware.
    So I use "clean" (= malware-free) archives to clean my actual system partition.

    2. Most users use registry/history/junk cleaners to clean these superfluous objects.
    Registry cleaners are dangerous. History and junk cleaners don't do a complete job and never will.
    Since September 2007, I use "clean" and "unused" archives, before that I only used "clean" (malware-free) archives.

    My guess is that most users don't care about resident malware and superfluous objects, but I do.
    This has nothing to do with paranoia, I "know" for sure I'm right and I solved it forever, because I refused to ignore the problem.
    I only needed the right softwares and the right ideas to accomplish this WITHOUT extra work. (I'm lazy too).

    I have read alot of problem/disaster posts at SWI/Wilders/... and I still read them at Wilders.
    I had the same problems, disasters and dirty computer in the past, but NOT anymore.
    I don't care what they say about my solution, I know what I have and I'm planning to keep it as long as possible.
    Sometimes they tell me it requires discipline, forget it, I'm more careless than I used to be.
    I can do the same things like in the past but WITHOUT the garbage and problems and the WASTE OF TIME.

    Returnil/DeepFreeze/... has also a boot-to-restore, but that's not the same as my boot-to-restore, because Retunil has not the features of FDISR.
    Returnil doesn't even have a full boot-to-restore, Returnil is a toy compared with the professional FDISR.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2008
  19. Huupi

    Huupi Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Posts:
    2,024
    Pffft.... Erik can i call this comprehensive ? i know already for quite some time that your knowledge on FDISR is unbeatable and you found most ''flexables'' inherent to FDISR concept and using it to your advantage,honest i'm stunned at what you can make out of FDISR....but for me and while i still admire your work on it,its short said : too complex ,i have a simple setup with one working snapshot,and a second for just copy/update the working snapshot with external archives,thats all, and it works for me without problems from sept. 2006 until now.
     
  20. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Posts:
    9,455
    You first have to understand my philosophy behind this and that has nothing to do with softwares. I only use FDISR (and SP) to make it possible, because there is nothing else. To me it's all simple and logical.

    If I read all the posts about Returnil, I don't understand why users are so enthousiastic about it. Most probably they have a different philosophy, than mine. They also use frozen mode in a way, I would never do.

    I've read about RB-users working with 40 snapshots, sjeez I would go crazy with so many snapshots.

    Well, it doesn't really matter as long everybody is happy with his setup. :)
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2008
  21. Huupi

    Huupi Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Posts:
    2,024
    I concur ! ;)
     
  22. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2002
    Posts:
    4,048
    Location:
    SouthCentral PA
    One man's poison is another man's meat! We're simply here to help one another, no matter what our security philosophies, and you guys are the best!

    Acadia
     
  23. farmerlee

    farmerlee Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2006
    Posts:
    2,585
    Yeh i would do something similar in that event. I guess i should of said that in a worst case scenario fd-isr by itself won't save you but it can help to speed up the recovery process.
     
  24. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2007
    Posts:
    5,632
    Location:
    U.S.A. (South)
    I sure can say with 100% confidence thru experience that the original FD-ISR sure can save you without a whimper, and recover your system completely intact again.

    The key to this of course is provided you archived your snapshots safely to another Off-Line HD partition as the alternate place to save them then pull the plugs.

    I took a mighty big chance when i researched a file infector virus without first imaging (i wasn't thinking), but as it turned out those archives were everything an IMAGE would have done.

    FD-ISR (original) is one of those very rare productions/distributions that was available only a brief season, but well beyond that season it continues to prove just how exceptionally crafted it was.

    EASTER
     
  25. Chris12923

    Chris12923 Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2004
    Posts:
    1,097
    From what I see you are asking what the similarities and differences of these softwares not what any of us would recommend. So I will try to answer without bias.

    FDISR (the discontinued one) really does not even need to be discussed since it has been discontinuedbut since you want some info I'll try to explain.

    The discontinued FDISR has its benefits.

    Like some one else said the discontinued FDISR makes a full backup of all your files when you create a snapshot. So of course this would be ideal for mission critical systems which is what it was intended for. This is where FDISR set itself apart from Rollback Rx. Rollback rx takes incremental snapshots if you will meaning that when you take a snapshot in short terms it only records the changes made since the baseline (rollback rx install). So if lets say the baseline gets currupted then you will not be able to use any snapshot. Although this would be very rare it could happen.

    The discontinued FDISR can also store your snapshots on an external disk. This is great if something happens to your drive (lets say it died due to hardware failure) then you just load windows and FDISR and then restore your snapshots. Pretty painless. With Rollback everything is lost. In this scenario I am only talking about the two programs with no imaging software in use.

    Another thing is that the discontinued FDISR can create a blank snapshot to create a clean OS into.

    Thats pretty much the main benefits of the discontinued FDISR. compared to Rollback in my opinion. I'm sure there are some other differences and I'm sure someone will mention them but those are the main ones in my opinion.

    Now Rollback has its benefits as well.

    Snapshots take 5-10 seconds where the discontinued FDISR took a couple minutes to many minutes depending on some factors.

    Rollback can have almost endless snapshots (up to 60,000) where as the disontinued FDISR can only have 10 ready at anytime. Although if you store the discontinued FDISR images offline and you have the space you can also have unlimited snapshots.

    Rollback will let you search a snapshot without switching to it. So your working in one snapshot but you have a file in another snapshot you can explore the image of the snapshot you need and grab the file and be on your way in seconds.

    Also Rollback will let you schedule rollback hourly, at logoff, at restart, etc... I think the discontinued FDISR can do a simialr function at restart but not the rest of the mentioned scheduling. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

    Rollback can also be setup with password protection.

    I think these are probably the main differences I can think of I'm probably missing something and if someone else wants to throw something out there feel free.

    I refered to FDISR as the discontinued FDISR so as not to confuse it with FDISR Rescue which I'm not that familiar with since it does not suit my needs for many snapshots.

    Thanks,

    Chris
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.