Oh what a Mess I've Made

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by jtypeb, Feb 18, 2008.

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  1. GroverH

    GroverH Registered Member

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    After reviewing again your entire post: I believe your easiest and most successful course of action would be to perform an Acronis TrueImage Restore using the Acronis Rescue CD. This allow you to begin anew with a working system.

    Put the 25GB drive back in its original position. Remove the cloned drive.
    Use TI's restore feature and restore your D drive backup mentioned in post #30. In other words, restore the backup of D (250GB) overtop the current Drive D (250GB). At the screen labeled "Partition or Disk to Restore" Do NOT tick the Disk option, tick only the drive D option. Drive C should not be listed.

    Note in addition the listing of drive D, does it also list a "Track 0 and MBR" option?
    If yes, as you proceed thru the various screens, one will be the titled "Next Selection".
    Tickmark "Yes I want to restore another partition" and TI will return you back to where you can now tickmark the "Track 0 and MBR" option.


    One of the nice things about TI is that it enables you to practice or simulate all the different functions including the restore function. It is practice or simulation up to the screen where you click "Cancel or Proceed". At that point, you can cancel and return to main menu for more practice; or if you click proceed, the actual operation will commence and cannot be cancelled once it start.

    However, before you begin your practice simulation, download this pdf about "Partition Resore with Resizing".

    http://grover.tabinc.com/gh-temp/gh-acronis-part-resize.pdf

    You can ignore the pdf part about partition resizing but it shows how to pick Drive D and Track 0 with mbr. etc. This will help answer any questions you have during practice. After practice, should you have more questions, get them answered before you perform the actual restore.

    Do NOT have the 500 attached during this operation. You do not want Windows to see two versions of Windows!
    Do NOT attach the 500 until your first successful bootup.

    Once you get your old system back running normally, we can help you (in a new thread) get started on a right track should you want to repeat your cloning procedure.
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    PS: So others can help understand, would you edit your posting #50 about drive letters.
    The first column is confusing. I don't believe you have 5 partitions on one drive. You can use dashes or underline or periods to act as spacers under your column headings.

    Add disk number; partition number; and disk size to beginning of each line such as
    Disk1, partition 1, 500GB...NTFS.....G....C....Empty
    Disk1, partition 2, 500GB...NTFS.....M....D....System

    What is the FAT32 partition?
     
  2. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    It can also be put inside a CODE box:
    Code:
    Current config of SATA (Current) vs PATA (Original) partitions is below:
    
    Partition# Current Drive Letter Original Drive Letter Original use
    ---------- -------------------- --------------------- ------------
    1 NTFS     G                    C                     Empty
    2 NTFS     M                    D                     System
    3 NTFS     N                    E                     Data
    4 Fat32    O                    F                     If needed
    5 NTFS     P                    G                     Data
    With five partitions, at least two of them will be Logical partitions.
     
  3. jtypeb

    jtypeb Registered Member

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    Thanks MudCrab - That's what it looked like on my screen before I posted.

    I did indeed have 5 partitions. The logic was basically for organization, defrag ease, and wanting to keep windows on it's own partition. I didn't use "C" because I read somewhere that was more secure from hackers. Not really paranoid about that but it made sence and used not much space. "F partitioned Fat32- in case I ever need to install something that doesn't work in NTFS. DOS? Again, I read that somewhere and it seemed like a small amount of space to give up for that option. The other two partitions listed were large and one was used primarily for games and programs. The other for music, photos, backup etc. Approx size of partitions is shown below.

    250G PATA- Only disc in computer

    Drive 1...."C"....10GB NTFS....Empty
    Drive 2...."D"....30GB NTFS....System
    Drive 3...."E"....100GB NTFS....Games/Programs
    Drive 4...."F"....10GB Fat 32....Empty
    Drive 5...."G"....100GB NTFS....Photos/music/backups

    I am not a power user. I play games, surf the web, put in music and photos etc. Couple of applications like excel etc. Good processor 2 GiGSs ram, good video card etc. Even now I wasn't running out of HD space. Just wanted to add more and maybe some speed. This has been a very stable setup for over two years with little trouble until this cloning operation.

    GroverH- I don't see how your last idea (Post #51)will work. While it is true I have a full backup of "D" it resides on the new SATA 500. If I remove the SATA and reinstall the PATA 250 there will be nothing for Acronis to see as the PATA 250 is empty. I do have Acronis on both computers. Maybe somehow transfer it( backup file that is). Don't forget I have the exterior enclosure and I just bought an exterior harddrive. Still in the box.

    Thanks again for all your efforts
     
  4. GroverH

    GroverH Registered Member

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    Thanks for clarifying your partitions. I had mis-interpreted the listing. If the 250 is empty on all its partitions then my solutions will not work.

    My solution would work only if all the data exists but is not functional. Copying the backup files to an external would make them available but that's no help if all the other partitions are empty. If D restored, it might boot but all the other partitions would still be empty. Good luck!

    PS: Thanks Mudcrab!
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2008
  5. jtypeb

    jtypeb Registered Member

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    That seems like a decent idea. I'm still troubled by one thing. When I cloned, I also proportionally changed the size of all drives. On the SATA 500 the "C" drive is now more than 30GB. It for sure has a windows installation on it, screwed up as it is. What should I do with it. Format? Reallocate the space?

    Ideas?
     
  6. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    jtypeb,

    I think that a large part of the problem is being caused by the fact that you didn't install Windows to C:. There isn't anything wrong with using a different letter, but when you try and keep that letter when it needs to be "reassigned" by Windows, it gets problematic.

    Can you post which partitions are Primary and which are Logical?

    Do you know for sure that Windows was actually booting from the D: (Windows) partition on the original drive? (This would have been displayed in Windows Disk Management with the partition marked as Boot.) In a normal Windows installation, C: will be assigned to the first Primary partition. I wonder if the booting files were on the C: partition (the first partition on the drive). This could also explain why you were having problems finding the files.

    Even assuming you don't have any problems because of switching from IDE to SATA (and you may not), you still have to "force" Windows to keep the D: drive letter for the Windows partition. All the partition IDs have changed because of the clone and resize and Windows most likely wants to reassign them. You restored to the first partition from the second partition. Windows will want to assign that as C: (assuming it's Primary). It needs to be D:. This means you need to have another Primary partition in front of the Windows partition. This partition was originally physically located prior to the Windows partition (in partition table slot 1). The problem is that it also needs to be Primary/Active in order to get the C: letter and it needs to have the Windows booting files on it.

    So, if you can get the partitions setup correctly and get the booting files onto the first Primary/Active partition and get your Windows partition restored into the second partition and clear your MountedDevices entry in the Registry, then maybe Windows will assign the correct letters and boot.

    This is kind of a confusing thread to follow, so I may have missed something or gotten something wrong. I think the problem is fixable, but I don't think it's as going to be as easy as doing a regular restore.

    The instructions for trying to fix the problem will depend on whether Windows was actually booting from the C: partition or the D: partition. If your 500GB SATA drive contains everything, you should be able to tell if the first partition contains the Windows booting files and if it is the Active partition. Of course, if you messed with repairing this it may not be how it originally was.
     
  7. GroverH

    GroverH Registered Member

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    Another possibility or food for thought?
    If the 250 is not functional, one option you might be a reverse clone. That is, clone the 500 back onto the 250. Use the manual clone setting and resize the partition back their preferred sizes.

    This would be another opportunity to make the 250 functional. As MudCrab stated, if the 500 has been modified since cloning, those could cause some difficulties in booting. Should bootup fail, then a restoration of the system partition from the previous Acronis partition backup should resolve those difficulties. If the system was bootable when the backup was created, it should be bootable after the restore--provided all the previous partitions are still in existence.

    If a reverse clone is performed, I suggest that the 250 be installed in its original place connected to its original motherboard connector. After cloning, remove the 500 before booting first attempt.

    We know the original system drive was installed on the D drive. A previous posting showed the boot.ini contents to be:
    Code:
    [boot loader]
    timeout=30
    default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS
    [operating systems]
    multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect
    
    If the reverse cloning is successful, this would provide an opportunity to install the appropriate SATA drivers and then a new clone could be performed from the 250 back overtop the 500.

    Question: Simulate doing a restore of D with your backup. Look at one of the beginning pages titled "Partition or Disk to Restore". Is there an option listed as "Track 0 and MBR"? After you find this answer, you can cancel and close Acronis. Let us know.

    You also you now have Acronis Disk Director. Do you have a Windows XP install CD?
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2008
  8. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    Even if the 500GB clone had not been modified by repair attempts, the original problem of Windows reassigning drive letters would still remain. This would also happen when cloned back to the 250GB drive as the partitions will have changed yet again. In this case, I think an Entire Disk Image backup would have been a better method to use. The image could have been restore as a Disk Image and then the partitions could have been moved/resized one at a time and allow Windows to adjust to the changes one partition (one drive letter) at a time.

    If the D: partition image (which was the Windows system partition backup) is restored, I don't see how it could solve the problem since the D: partition was not originally assigned as C:. However, if all the previous partitions were still in existence as they were on the original drive in their original state, then restoring the D: partition would work. This doesn't seem to be the case, though.

    This is a good example of why I prefer to keep each Windows installation as C: and booting from its own partition.
     
  9. TgFriday

    TgFriday Registered Member

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    jtypeb,
    windows stored HDD partition label in registry HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\MountedDevices.
    Maybe it is messed up in your first boot w/both old and new HDD in your computer.
    The boot/system partition became G:/M: has nothing to do with boot.ini.
    #1. if you have another computer and can clone back to your old HDD, maybe you can clone back, put back the old HDD and you can boot w/only old HDD.
    #2 You may be able to boot to new HDD if you can boot to dos:
    A. In DOS , you have to make sure the label of boot/system HDD is C:/D:
    B. modify the serial # of both C:/D: to different #.
    (or all C,D,E,F,G)
    new serial # of the partitions will let windows reassign the label.
    (there's a very old DOS utility SERNUM.EXE can show or chage serial # of partitions)
    C. once you modified all serial # of new HDD ,you may boot to windows and hopefully windows will assinge the new correct HDD label to it.
    (put only 1 hdd to your computer the first boot)

    Good Luck.
     
  10. jtypeb

    jtypeb Registered Member

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    Posted this for clarity:
    Code:
    [U]250G PATA- Only disc in computer[/U]
     
    Drive 1...."C"....10GB NTFS....Empty
    Drive 2...."D"....30GB NTFS....System
    Drive 3...."E"....100GB NTFS....Games/Programs
    Drive 4...."F"....10GB Fat 32....Empty
    Drive 5...."G"....100GB NTFS....Photos/music/backups
    Drive 1 and 2 were primary. #2 was active. The rest were logical.
    Windows was booting from the D: Absolutely sure - none of the Windows setup was on C: When I installed windows 2 years ago, I partitioned the 1st two - C: and D: with the Windows install CD. Instructed windows to Install to D: Easy. Once windows was up and running, I used the disk management tool within windows to partition the rest. Windows has behaved very well within this layout until this. Games and other installations installed with installshield would want to install to D: by default. Simply browse and change the location to E: where I kept them all. The only issue I had was with a F.E.A.R. expansion install recently that refused to install to E: It wanted to go to D: A quick registry edit tricked it into thinking E: was D: After install, changed a few shortcuts and all worked great.
    I'm not sure Windows is to blame for the Drive letter reassignment we've been talking about. Seems to me, ATI 9 is to blame.
    I'm pretty sure the partitions have been removed by ATI. I do have of coy of Active @ Partition Recovery on Ultimate Boot Disk. Might try restoring. Or would it be better to repartition?
    Yes to both
    Another reason to try to recover the partitions??
    Maybe another reason to recover the partitionso_O

    You guys sure have been busy. For that I thank you again.

    Here's a last thought before bed:

    Why not do this to the SATA500? Format the C: partition, making it empty again. After all, it has a FUBARED copy of Windows on it. Restore the D: partition from the only good backup I have saved. Make sure D: is active. All other partitions stay the same. Boot up! Notice I referred to C: and D: Those other drive letters were attached when I put the HD in the 2nd computer as external. The 2nd computer needed to call them something so it could keep track of them and I could see them. I thought the partition position on the HD was important for booting- not the letter.

    HEY GroverH---Whatta ya think of all the quote boxes. Pretty cool huh? Hey Mudcrab---Codebox just for you.

    I am paying attention.
     
  11. GroverH

    GroverH Registered Member

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    Yes, your new formating of data is helpful. Good job. When you have the time, can you verify my questions in post #57
    Question: Simulate doing a restore of D with your backup. Look at one of the beginning pages titled "Partition or Disk to Restore". Is there an option listed as "Track 0 and MBR"? After you find this answer, you can cancel and close Acronis. Let us know.

    Question: Did you read the pdf in post #51? Have you simulated doing a restore of your backup?
     
  12. jtypeb

    jtypeb Registered Member

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    I have read the.pdf but I have not tried a simulated backup. Since we had the rewritten code for the boot.ini file, I put the SATA 500 back in and tried to boot. No luck

    Re: Question in #57--I have verified that yet. I assume I do this with the SATA 500 in the computer as the only HD.
     
  13. jtypeb

    jtypeb Registered Member

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    New info:

    SATA 500 is in the computer (No other HD's installed)
    Boot from the Acronis disk/select full install to Start Screen. Select Recovery. Screen goes to Restore Data Wizard/Archive Selection where it analyses partitions and lists all 5. Drive letters are C D E F G with the correct names I had added. Windows tree style and expandable to access files. Another option is 'Acronis Computers Near Me'. There is no option for 'Track 0 and MBR'.
     
  14. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    What build of TI 9 are you using? I hope it's 3,677. If it's 3,854, then the instructions may be different because of the partition scrambling "feature".

    The trick is getting the Windows partition reassigned the D: drive letter. This is what I would try:
    1. Leave partition 1 with Windows on it. This will leave leave the Windows booting files on the first partition. If you have already reformatted the partition, restore your D: partition image to partition 1.
    2. Restore your D: partition backup into partition 2. If you think the MBR may not be correct, you can also restore the MBR.
    3. Boot to Disk Director (DD) and set partition 1 Active. Hide partitions 3, 4 and 5.
    4. Edit the BOOT.INI file on partition 1 so that it will boot partition(2).
    5. Boot to BartPE and load the registry on partition 2. Clear out the MountedDevices entry. If you don't have a BartPE boot cd, you could install XP to partition 1, boot to it and edit the registry on partition 2. If you do it this way, make sure to edit the BOOT.INI file on partition 1 as in the previous step before proceeding. Another option would be to connect the 500GB drive to another XP computer (either internally or via USB) and use that XP to edit the registry on the second partition. (See Post #71 for detailed instructions.)
    6. Reboot the computer, allowing it to boot from the hard drive.
    7. Partition 1 should boot (because it's Active), but will load partition 2 (because of the BOOT.INI settings) and partition 2 should get assigned D: since C: is before it and Active.
    8. Edit the BOOT.INI file on partition 2 so that is will boot partition(2).
    9. Boot to DD and set partition 2 Active and reboot.
    10. The same Windows should boot up with the D: drive letter.
    11. Verify the correct partition (partition 2) is both the BOOT and SYSTEM partition by looking in Windows Disk Management.
    12. Boot back to DD and unhide partitions 3, 4 and 5.
    13. Reboot into Windows and change drive letters for partitions 3, 4 and 5 if necessary using Disk Management.
    If you need help with Step 5, more detailed instructions can be provided. If you have "Just Boot Corrector" and it allows you to clear out the MountedDevices registry entries, you could use that. There may be other programs that will do it too. I'm just posting what I would try using standard XP or BartPE.

    If this works, you can now reformat the C: partition and use it for storage space. If you delete it and try to resize the second partition to use its space, you'll most likely end up with the same problem you have now.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2008
  15. jtypeb

    jtypeb Registered Member

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    MudCrab - Your last post leaves me with many questions but I only have time for a quick post before heading off to work.

    I do not have BartPE so here's the question:

    Can I use my working computer to make a BartPE boot disk and then use it on my dead computer?

    One other note: I tried "Just Boot Corrector" again last night. Same error as before. "No swap space"

    John
     
  16. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    BartPE can be built on another computer. You just need to have a Windows XP SP2 CD for the source.

    I'm still thinking on this too.
     
  17. GroverH

    GroverH Registered Member

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    At that particular screen (Partition of Disk to Restore), you were examining the contents of the backup file. When in practice or simulation, it does not matter what hard drive is in use. You can practice your function on any drive even usb. You can even practice cloning to a different drive, etc. Whenever practicing, the important key is to click Cancel to stop the simulation...Clicking Proceed commits the operation and its too late to cancel. Do not click proceed unless you actually want the operation to begin.
     
  18. jtypeb

    jtypeb Registered Member

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    GroverH - In your post #52 you posed the question re: simulated disk restore. You asked me to get to the point where I could see if I had the option to restore 'Track 0 and restore MBR. Would you please look at my post #63. I did the sim last night and that is a narrative of what I saw. What is the significance?

    Thanks
     
  19. GroverH

    GroverH Registered Member

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    Yes, I had seen your response in #63. My only point in #67 was that the 500 was not a requirement to obtain the information request in #52--if that was your assumption. It's significance is that I had hoped that the "Track 0 & MBR" would be listed so as to help us get you bootable. Glad to see MudCrab has some other ideas in finding a favorable solution to your dilemma. The newer version of TI now include "track 0 & mbr" as part of their partition backup.

    Re: post #44. If still interested in undoing the file association of the bak file.
    Go into Control Panel/Folder Options/File Types
    Locate the listing of .bak file and click the delete button to delete the .bak file association. This association is usually not listed as many different programs use the .bak file type and no one program will open will all .bak files. It helps to know which program created the .bak file so you know which program to use when opening. Suggest you delete the .bak listing in the file types window.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2008
  20. jonyjoe81

    jonyjoe81 Registered Member

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    I've searched the internet to see if I can find a similar error "no swap space" and have come with a blank. I emailed the company that produces "justboot", but have not gotten a reply.

    I had to restore a windows xp IDE hard drive to a SATA hard drive to run some more tests.
    -Using "justboot corrector bootcd" build 050609 (which is the full version I bought 2 years ago and also the same build as the demo I downloaded last week). The boot cd booted up the computer but remain frozen at "please wait" box.
    -Using "avanquest partition commander version 10 bootcd" which has a built-in boot corrector build 060801 (purchased program last year), the bootcd booted up the computer, and the boot corrector on first try said "no NT system installed", but moving from the boot corrector to the partition section, then back to the boot corrector fixed the problem. The program identified the SATA drive and read the registry.
    -Using "paragon partition manager version 9.0 bootcd" which has a built-in boot corrector build 080121 (this boot corrector actually has some basic vista support). This bootcd booted up the computer and had no problems reading the SATA hard drive and reading the registry.

    From my limited test's that I performed (I only have one computer with a SATA drive). My conclusion is that the original justboot corrector (besides not being updated in almost 2 years)has some problems reading SATA drives and maybe some motherboards. It works good on IDE drives.

    That's all I can find so far on the justboot program until I get some feedback from the company.

    At least you haven't gave up on trying to get your hard drive to bootup. It's good training to learn how to fix it now instead of learning when your hard drive fails when you really need it.
     
  21. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    jtypeb,

    I went back and reread most of the thread again. I forgot the fact that you had previously put the 500GB drive into a USB enclosure and connected it to another computer (Post #34). Since you have access to another computer with this drive, you can use that instead of BartPE or installing XP again to clear the MountedDevices registry entry. Of course, if you already have BartPE you can use that.

    IMPORTANT: If you do this procedure from another installation of Windows, make sure you delete the entries from the loaded hive on the 500GB drive and not the entries from the installed Windows system.

    When you get to Step 5 in the list in Post #64, you could do this instead:
    1. Put the 500GB drive back into the USB enclosure.
    2. Connect it to the other computer (the partitions should show up in My Computer). Make note of which is the "D:" partition. It won't be assigned as D: on the other computer so you'll need to find out what it is. It may be F: or G:, for example.
    3. Start regedit.
    4. Click on the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE key to select it.
    5. Click on the File menu and select Load Hive...
    6. Select the drive on the 500GB disk that is the "D:" partition. I'll use F: in this example.
    7. Browse to the F:\Windows\System32\config folder.
    8. Select the system file and click the Open button.
    9. A box will come up asking for the Key Name.
    10. Type in MyXP_System and click the Ok button.
    11. You should now see the MyXP_System entry added to your local registry under the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE key. (See Figure A below.)
    12. Browse to the MountedDevices entry.
    13. Delete all the entries under that key except for (Default). To delete an entry, right-click on it (\DosDevices\C:, for example) and select Delete from the pop-up menu.
    14. Unload the Hive by clicking on MyXP_System to highlight it, selecting the File menu and then selecting Unload Hive... Finally, click Yes and then close the registry editor.
    Now, put the drive back into the computer and proceed with Step 6.

    Figure A
    mounteddevices.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2008
  22. jtypeb

    jtypeb Registered Member

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    Good morning.

    GroverH - Re: post #69--Thanks for clarifying. Concerning my .bak screwup - I had fixed that already. Thanks for remembering.

    jonyjoe81 - I havent received my retail copy of Justboot Corrector yet. When I do I will try it to test your theory and report back. You'll remember, the copy I downloaded and burned works on my working computer(IDE HD) but wont work on the dead computer(SATA HD) I think you're onto something. Abyway, I hope it works for something. Cost me 30 bucks.

    MudCrab - Below are some questions about the recent fix you are providing:
    What is DD? Is this Disk Director? The copy I have is brand new. Any chance it wont boot since I havent installed it previous? It has one of those long number sequences to validate.
    Assuming DD is Disk Director, is the editing done from there?

    One other question: How important is the MBR and is there a way to verify it's integrity?

    That's it for now. Not sure when I can do it but I'm gonna try your plan.

    Thanks again to all!
     
  23. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    Yes. DD is Disk Director. If you have the retail version, put the CD in and see if it boots (I would assume it does). It may not be the latest build, though. If it works, then use it. Otherwise, you'll need to register it with Acronis, download the latest build (2,160), install it and create a new DD CD.

    Yes. You can Explore your partitions with DD and edit files like boot.ini directly.

    If there is a problem with the MBR, you can repair it with XP's Recovery Console (fixmbr), the Acronis MBR utility or by restoring the MBR from your TI image. If you get an error message when you try to boot from the drive, post it. Depending on the message, it can usually be figured out if its a problem with the MBR, boot sector or Windows.
     
  24. jtypeb

    jtypeb Registered Member

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    I wanted to provide an update;

    Acronis Disk Director 10 is build 2160
    Acronis True Image 9 is build 2323.

    DD 10 will boot to full function and all partitions are visible, labelled correctly, and by clicking properties on each partition indivually, DD finds no errors.

    I am reading through the help section of DD to familiarize myself.

    SATA 500 is the only disk in the computer. Hooked to SATA 1. Bios found it automatically and everything looks right there.

    It looks like MudCrab's plan is going to be our next move.

    This looks promising.

    One note: In DD - Select partition/C: or D:/Explore -At root directory there is a file listed IPH.PH What the heck is that? D: also lists ntldr and ntdetect.com. Possibly from my Windows CD repair attempt? C: doesn't have ntldr and ntdetect.com but does have boot.ini obviously. Also has bootex.log. No other files at root level.
     
  25. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    Location:
    California
    I don't know what the IPH.PH file is.

    If the D: partition (I assume this is the Windows partition you're trying to fix [partition #2]) doesn't have a boot.ini file, create one or copy it from C: (it should be like GroverH shows in Post #57).

    If you're looking for the boot.ini file from Windows, make sure you have enabled viewing of Hidden and System files.
     
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