NSA has direct access to tech giants' systems for user data, secret files reveal

Discussion in 'privacy general' started by Dermot7, Jun 6, 2013.

  1. Gullible Jones

    Gullible Jones Registered Member

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    Hammond's statement is a load of vague fluff, designed to assuage fears without actually promising accountability or offending anyone. IOW, absolutely typical.

    The wording, though, makes me think he needs better PR people.

    Edit: also, I really love this endless blather about national security. MIT Tech Review ran an article recently about the economic impact of NSA spying on American companies and their reputation abroad... hint hint, it wasn't good, and the economy doesn't really need further beatings, does it? But people like Hammond don't seem to get that there's more to national security than being able to find and kill the Bad Guys, whoever they happen to be.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2015
  2. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    I take mass surveillance and hacking by the NSA and its counterparts as a given. Maybe political oversight will be effective here and there, to some extent, for a while. But I wouldn't count on it. And in any case, politics are outside the scope of this forum. What we can explore are strategies to protect our devices, and our privacy.
     
  3. noone_particular

    noone_particular Registered Member

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    Agreed as far as the forum is concerned. As for hi statement, the proper response to such rhetoric should be:
    "When you and your corporate overlords stop treating us like the enemy and learn the difference between enforcing the law and thinking that you are the law, then we'll consider stopping. The people didn't start it but we will finish it.
     
  4. deBoetie

    deBoetie Registered Member

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    For the purposes of the forum, I think we have to treat this stuff as prevailing (bad) weather. Clearly the spooks are carrying on with (and intensifying) their reach in cyberspace, and the politicians are supine, however much we think/know that's unconstitutional, illegal, counter-productive etc.

    The other factor as far as the political environment is concerned is that it is election time in the UK, so you can expect many such posturing moves.

    But it is important to know what direction that wind is blowing, and be able to react accordingly.
     
  5. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    And to share :)
     
  6. deBoetie

    deBoetie Registered Member

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    Thank you for your contributions. Very helpful to me and other members I suspect.
     
  7. Banzi

    Banzi Registered Member

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    Hammond is a joke, what debate has there been about all this spying? The Government keeps saying nothing illegal is happening & keeps shooting down the need for a public debate, GCHQ just keeps issuing the same statement over & over again that what they do is legal & covered by legal framework & oversight blah blah. Bit rich for Hammond to say that considering his boss Cameron doesn't even want to take part in the televised debates & has been trying to wiggle out of them. :rolleyes:
     
  8. 142395

    142395 Guest

    Myabe it's the first time that I find so many my agreement on the topic.
    Yup, I've always felt that while they're trying to kill them with more power they don't seriously try to address root cause of this. Obviously it is NOT religious matter or Muslim vs western matter, those terrorists just use religion as a means to justify themselves.
    Yeah, it's reasonable and practical to take them as a given fact, and anyway political discussion is not allowed here so focusing on how to protect ourselves is good idea.
    You know, such day will never come at least within our life.
    I take this matter as a conflicts btwn "public justice" (I know its confusing and misleading word and don't want to dig in but at least have to say I use this word as somewhat negative meaning if not neutral.) vs individual rights (which theoretically should be protected and guaranteed by constitution in most of democratic countries). Despite they couldn't give evidence of those surveillance prevented actual terrorism, I can easily see if there was no monitoring terrorism would be much more easier to do. But it's another serious matter if spent money match effect, and if those activity can be justified.
    Taking risk of being criticized from all of you, I even think privacy shouldn't be prioritized always in all possible cases (e.g. right to know vs right to be forgotten). As a principle, rights have to be respected provided it doesn't hurts others' rights. Maybe more discussion would be removed here, but as a principle general surveillance shouldn't be accepted but when and only when there is a proof that sb is actually preparing terrorism and justice issued warrant then ISP or any service provider should give info to related agencies. However, the reality is not that simple and that will be said as whitewishing especially when all other countries also have intelligence service.
     
  9. noone_particular

    noone_particular Registered Member

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    Probably not in my lifetime. I probably won't have to see how bad things will get. It's the generation after mine that will bear the brunt of this. It's clear that the people can't win this by directly fighting it. What we can do is force up the costs of global surveillance until this system bankrupts itself and collapses under its own dead weight.
     
  10. deBoetie

    deBoetie Registered Member

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    Oh, I'm happy about that dynamic. The issue is that unilaterally and in secret, the deal that was "working" or understood has been subverted into something which is manifestly immoral and unworkable longer-term. We had a compact (e.g.) in the UK which has been tacitly agreed for centuries (Magna Carta, the common law), namely that the state can surveil people it suspects, but it has to put in effort and limit how much it does this (steaming open enveloped takes time). The disgusting mass surveillance operations trash that agreement in a very dangerous way. It's not who we are as a nation.

    And it appears to have very little to do with terrorism - I like to remind people that the UK has had domestic terrorism for 50 years, and the last thing we need is more fear, lies and laws. What we do need is for the state to obey the law and uphold the Rule of Law.

    My feeling is that these kind of regimes fail under their own weight and lack of productivity, but it takes 20-30 years and causes huge damage.
     
  11. Azure Phoenix

    Azure Phoenix Registered Member

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  12. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    Windows ;)
     
  13. 142395

    142395 Guest

    Sadly probably you're right. A bit of hope is, history tells such great authority finally end, but sometimes it was by revolution. Revolution in modern developed world is going harder.
    That is part of nature for such secret operation/intelligence activity, and such closedness is often abused. One fact is, a law is there to be broken. Tho making law still makes sense, I don't expect much for this matter, rather expect individual conscience like shown in Snoden case and economy as noone_particular and you suggested.

    When intelligence operation couldn't meet expectation, they claim it's because we don't have enough privilede so that more money, priv, etc. will be given. Typical bureaucratic evil.

    A question is what we can do against it. British citizens can vote not for anyone who're trying to forbid encrypted communication. It's not about guaranteeing privacy, but showing public resolution about the matter. So diffusing this affair will make a little sense. Is that all? Probably not.
     
  14. CloneRanger

    CloneRanger Registered Member

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  15. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    Right, because the "T" in "TAO" is for "targeted". The NSA cannot compromise every Cisco router. Or every HDD, or whatever. And so you setup an unofficial subsidiary (a consultant in an extended-stay hotel room, perhaps) in the US, and maybe another here or there, and do some brown-box drop shipping.
     
  16. dogbite

    dogbite Registered Member

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  17. Mayahana

    Mayahana Banned

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    I believe this has been happening for varied electronics, not just Cisco. Five years ago I had a client I was working with for security that had 'consistent' redirects on technology orders. One order was actually routed out of the state, then back into the state after a 12 hour delay at the other state. It was a Smart-TV for use in their conference room. We had an electronics (TV) technician come out to examine it, and he found 'non-standard' modifications and equipment in the smart tv. At which time the client returned it to the reseller as defective, and went to Costco to pick one up locally. I wouldn't be surprised if it eventually comes out that this has been happening outside of networking gear.

    Our govt. and it's divisions are like felons these days.
     
  18. driekus

    driekus Registered Member

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    Very misleading:

    Definitely not voluntary and optional.
    Both corporations and government are destroying civil liberties.
     
  19. 142395

    142395 Guest

    I think in theory they are optional, as you can choose not to use the service after reading privacy policy. In practice, it's not.
    But as a whole, I think the article is good start for those who don't had much interest around this. I just want to say, comparing physical surveillance with digital one is not fair, especially if you're tying to put minimum data on PC and online.
     
  20. deBoetie

    deBoetie Registered Member

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    And, I suspect, it's been going on a long time.

    I used to work in a systems integrator back in the 90s, importing Cisco routers for large scale financial and ISP networks. One of the frustrations for project timescales was their variable length of stay in the bonded warehouses and customs "formalities". What better opportunity to perform "tailoring"?
     
  21. Dermot7

    Dermot7 Registered Member

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    Documents Reveal Canada’s Secret Hacking Tactics - The Intercept
     
  22. J_L

    J_L Registered Member

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    Makes you think twice about Canada being more open and free than the US...
     
  23. driekus

    driekus Registered Member

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    Agreed, but at least Canadians are a whole lot more polite about it. ;)


    My concern here is that privacy policy and terms of service are written so that an average person cannot understand the implications. I am well educated and have good understanding of contract law and they make me think. I have serious concern that people in lower socio economic groups have the same ability to comprehend what is written. There is no informed consent here.
     
  24. RockLobster

    RockLobster Registered Member

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    I don't think informed consent has been a priority for any of our governments in many years. Quite the opposite in fact.
     
  25. 142395

    142395 Guest

    Yes, I even doubt myself. I think AVG's attempt recently posted has potential, definitely it's better than current state that most ppl don't read if vendor offer simplified version of PP while full version for privacy caring. I'll keep eye on it.
     
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