NSA has direct access to tech giants' systems for user data, secret files reveal

It already has. The American public (and I say this being an American) attention span is notoriously short. For some reason, privacy and other security issues in the digital world doesn't seem to bother them as much as it would if, say, another physical attack happened. It's like it isn't real to them, they don't see digital threats like they do physical. It's a huge mistake, but they can't be forced to care.

On to Snowden again, our little traitor friend has filed for asylum in Ecuador.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2013/06/beyond-moscow-where-edward-snowden-going-next/66511/

 

Edward Snowden seeks asylum in Ecuador amid diplomatic storm.
Whistleblower escapes from Hong Kong to Moscow on a commercial flight despite a formal US extradition request
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/23/edward-snowden-escape-moscow-ecuador

 

I wonder how long he'll last holed up in an embassy if they grant it? Assange has lasted a while, but they won't let either of them live there forever. These guys would have it so much easier if they'd just disappear the old fashioned way. Assange is too much of a publicity hound for it, and Snowden is probably getting a crash course in "Fleeing 101". I guarantee you that China and the U.S are having rather strong words with each other at the moment.

 

Assange is in the embassy of Ecuador in London, UK.
Snowden is in Moscow, waiting for his flight to Ecuador (or Venezuela), with a stopover in Havana, Cuba. Once in Ecuador/Venezuela, he'll be free to move around. I don't suspect he'll reside in an embassy there.
And China and HongKong will probably be very happy he's not their problem anymore.
His crash course seems to have been given in a ruski-ran 'capsule hotel' in HongKong.

Recent US 3-letter cash money, wigs, compass and tourist map of Moscow-guy karma?

 

He may never make it to Ecuador. I still think he'd be better off staying put in Moscow. Out of all possible places he can go, Russia has the better ability to tell the U.S to go fly a kite. You are probably right that Hong Kong is glad to be rid of him. But I wouldn't want to be the poor guy or girl having to do the explaining right now, lol.

 

The thought HAS occurred to me that he's already got help faking a trip for asylum to fill-in-the-blank and he actually assumes a new identity within the huge borders of the Russian Federation.

I also agree with those that say we need to keep our focus on the issue. I hope that once the Snowden talk quiets down, we can get back to the real issues.

 

The real issues can still be discussed, and they certainly shouldn't be forgotten in favor of watching "John McAfee: The Sequel" play out. But I am very interested in watching just how far the U.S will go to get this guy back on their shores, and how well other nations will play along. If he stays within Russian borders, it could be years before the U.S gets a shot, and even then Putin would have to be gone. That's my opinion at least.

Going back to the main issue though, this isn't the end. More will come out, a lot more. I'm sure Snowden himself is holding back plenty, and he may inspire more to follow in his footsteps. I'm not for damaging the security of a nation, but things like this just can't go on. Not to this extent and not with so little oversight from others not directly involved.

 

Paul Revere was a British Citizen when he warned of British troop movements. Traitor?

IMO, ES is protecting the Bill of Rights, therefore, not a traitor.

Also, espionage has certain legal definitions...I'm not sure ES has met them (intent to harm country).

PD

 

Sure Paul was, to the British. The U.S Espionage Act applies to him in regards to unauthorized passing of secrets and intelligence to unauthorized persons, among other sections. You don't have to be out to specifically cause harm for it to apply.

In the grand scheme of things, yes, he did the right thing, but even the right thing has consequences when done illegally. I'm not crucifying the man, we need people like him. But he's simply not "innocent" and did commit a crime, a huge one.

I'm afraid though his rep is going to take a hit when people start to understand politics in Ecuador. Their government is all too happy to be the protector of foreigners throwing pie in the face of their governments, but none too keen on its citizens doing the same to them. Just recently acts have been put into place to censor the media, among other issues that may end up making Snowden look like a hypocrite, just like Assange.

 

True, but the Espionage act has many "charges" available. For instance, Aldrich Aimes and Robert Hanssen (actual spies) were charged with this:

-http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/794#c-

No way ES did this to help foreigners. Anyway, Schneier's comments are the most level headed and we all need to stop talking about ES...and stick with the main issue of the NSA violating the US Bill of Rights (which trumps all other "law"), as well as the privacy rights of the world.

PD

 

Which will get the thread shut down, as it inevitably always does. So keeping Snowden news in here is the easiest way to avoid that. I could discuss it in depth, but why bother if the comments will just get wiped. To dip my toe in the water though, I'm sorry, but the government has seen fit to decide that national interests trumps the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, whether we like that or not. I'll end that right there though.

So, yeah, ES is actually important both to keeping the discussion alive and, again, seeing just to what lengths a country (all involved) will go to protect its secrets and to avoid "messes".

 

Project Chess helped NSA snoop on your Skype communications.

-- Tom

 

I think that shows Skype has never been safe from prying. And Schneier is right, if you're not assuming everything can be watched and gathered up, you're doing it wrong and really only fooling yourself. I agree with what is said about the likes of Facebook and others as well. They could, barring government forcing of course, maintain a very private service without worry of snooping and other data violations. But, they'd be out of business within months. The problem is just going to get worse and worse. The government and companies that rely on collecting data aren't just going to stop suddenly with "Okay, we think we've gone far enough now". And consumers aren't going to stop logging into Facebook, using the cloud, etc.

 

Somewhat OT, but possibly relevant as a response to all this data collecting and snooping.

Some time ago, I saw threads here that discussed modifying wireless routers so they'd interconnect with each other and with wireless transmitters, along with other ideas for networking and/or alternatives to the "normal" internet. Maybe it's time to take another look at these.

 

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...-snag-leaker-fails-to-catch-flight-to-havana/

Snowden switching plans or are they falling apart? We'll see.

New news:

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...route-to-ecuador-and-in-a-safe-place-for-now/

"During a Monday morning conference call, WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange said that National Security Agency (NSA) leaker Edward Snowden’s digital trove of leaked documents and materials was “secured by the relevant journalistic organizations prior to travel.”

Assange's comments could suggest that The Guardian and the Washington Post—where Snowden previously leaked information—are now in possession of his entire cache. Ars asked The Guardian and the Post to confirm this but did not receive an immediate reply."

 

For those wondering about lack of media coverage.
MoD serves news outlets with D notice over surveillance leaks

I'm sure a similar applicable law is invoked for U.S. media outlets.

 

Well, I mean that was expected. Both the U.K and U.S would much prefer everyone to just shut up about the whole thing.

 

Some info in my previous post was (probably) based on a translation error or something.

"A Russian law enforcement official quoted anonymously by Interfax said that the Russian authorities had taken unusual measures to protect Mr. Snowden.
“This was done so that nothing threatened Edward Snowden, so that he could spend the night calmly in a capsule hotel and fly to Russia without problems,” the official was quoted as saying."

The Capsule Hotel is a "newly opened site in Sheremetyevo's terminal E, featuring sparse suites with room for little more than a bed." link
So russian help was offered after arriving in Moscow, not before leaving HongKong.

 

Either way the Russians are getting an earful, not that they particularly care. They know they have the upper hand as far as leverage goes. Barring a CIA op ( which is likely already being tossed around), Snowden may actually be home free if he manages to touch down in Ecuador. Then again, information is coming from Assange most recently, so who knows where this guy is and what his plans are. One thing is for sure, the more airports he shows up at and the flights he takes, the bigger chances he's taking on getting snatched up.

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/06/24/politics/nsa-leak/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

 

Hmmm.

The comment in the South China Morning Post article ...

...does cast him as a spy, albeit a public-interest spy

 

And as it is with digital surveillance, and innocents getting lumped in with the guilty, he's undoubtedly going to ruin some legitimate operations against actual bad people. This was the problem Assange had, although, again, Assange never really cared who got burned so long as he embarrassed the U.S and got his spotlight (my opinion only, and of him, not necessarily the entire Wikileaks operation).

There's no way to avoid collateral damage in these things.

 

Sure would like to see evidence of all these "bad people". So far, every violent "plot" they say they stopped, has been debunked as false. Wikileaks harmed no one, as even the US government admitted. It was just embarrassing. The way to prevent that, is to not do embarrassing things.

PD

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/25/us-usa-security-putin-idUSBRE95O0VE20130625

" Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Tuesday former U.S. spy agency contractor Edward Snowden was still in the transit area of Moscow's Sheremetyevo airport, was free to leave and should do so as soon as possible."

In other words, Russia is tired of dealing with it too

 

A somewhat different perspective on Snowden than in the general media in TheNewYorker , from fellow NSA whistleblower Thomas Drake who revealed PRISM-like Trailblazer in 2010. link

Drake apparantly got off with pleading guilty to a misdemeanor after having been charged with espionage.