Norton - Very shady billing practices

Discussion in 'other anti-virus software' started by jjc225, Aug 29, 2020.

  1. jjc225

    jjc225 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2010
    Posts:
    260
    I don't know what has happened to Norton Lifelock. They used to be a real standup organization.

    I had a one year subscription to Norton 360 with Lifelock Advantage. I knew the renewal was coming up in October, and just tonight I went to my account and saw that another year was already renewed and charged with an expiration date in 10/2021. I went to my account to turn off automatic renewal so that I could decide on whether or not to renew. And of course to my chagrin they already renewed and charged for another year a good month earlier than the expiration date.

    What a load of crap! The guy on the phone said we bill one month before the expiration date to make sure everything is okay with the card on file. I told him that is an extraordinarily shady business practice and probably illegal. I did demand a refund and they said it is being processed and to check my credit card in 5 to 7 days for the refund. But I am furious with Norton.
     
  2. Page42

    Page42 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2007
    Posts:
    6,476
    Location:
    USA
    The facts you have presented are definitely stunning, but then again, maybe not so much stunning. Auto renewal holds a very special place in the hatred section of my heart. But this sort of business practice seems to be increasingly common. That tells me that there is little we can do to stop it, except for what you did... fight for your own interests. All sorts of laws and fair business practices are being circumvented (and violated) every minute of every day, is my opinion. The internet has made it all possible. Oh how we love it and "need" it, but doesn't it extract a mean price? Looks like you have the refund coming back. In the meantime, I hope you don't stay furious. Norton probably deserves it, but you don't. ;)
     
  3. Krusty

    Krusty Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Posts:
    7,965
    Location:
    Among the gum trees
    What makes it worse is that we've seen plenty of posts on the Norton forums about not being able to activate a new Product Key without giving them your credit / debit card details, but you can disable auto-renewal and remove your card details later.

    If I come across that when next I renew that will be the end of my relationship with Norton.
     
  4. Page42

    Page42 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2007
    Posts:
    6,476
    Location:
    USA
    The consumer should start playing defense the minute he enters into any sort of contractual agreement. Playing defense before entering the agreement is helpful, of course, but I bet there is nothing the OP could have done in advance to ever see this one coming.
     
  5. TheBear

    TheBear Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Posts:
    162
    Simply buy it from Amazon,It is less expensive. You get more seats for not much more money. Then immediately go and cancel autorenewal. EasyPeasy
     
  6. Page42

    Page42 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2007
    Posts:
    6,476
    Location:
    USA
    Right. That's what I mean when I say playing defense. Take appropriate steps, or live with the consequences, most often the ones that the business dictates.
     
  7. topo

    topo Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2013
    Posts:
    142
    krusty, i was a loyal norton customer for 15 yrs. always bought norton from amazon whenever a good deal came up (mostly december). this april(my renew date) i entered my product key and norton wanted my cc details. no matter what i tried, norton would not let me renew without cc details. i canceled and backed out with intention to try again, but i never did. i have never nor will i ever give norton my cc details. i would have stayed with norton until i died but now i will never use them again. i'll just eat this norton purchase and i have already moved on. since the sale/breakoff, i've lost all faith and trust in norton. shame, i really liked norton internet security.
     
  8. jjc225

    jjc225 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2010
    Posts:
    260
    I think what is going on with Norton is desperation in times of acute competition over customers in the lucrative identity protection business. Now, for example, McAfee has launched their own identity protection product which is similar to Lifelock but for a better value (the premium service is around $210 a year instead of Norton's $240). I think I am going to try McAfee, because you can cancel the autorenewal immediately after purchase. Norton's renewing a month before the renewal date is an unconscionable practice.
     
  9. bellgamin

    bellgamin Very Frequent Poster

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2002
    Posts:
    7,049
    Location:
    Hawaii
    Once you give them your credit card details & activate the product key, simply call your credit card company & report that the card was lost so they will issue you a new one.

    If Norton plays dirty, their customers can play dirtier.

    By the way, I almost never buy online from an outfit that doesn't accept PayPal.
     
  10. xxJackxx

    xxJackxx Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2008
    Posts:
    5,783
    Location:
    USA
    Don't get me started on PayPal. I once tried to buy a laptop on eBay and the seller immediately closed his eBay account. No laptop was being delivered obviously. After reporting this to PayPal they gave me back $350ish of about $1,500 and said they would give back the rest if/when they could retrieve it from the seller. Fortunately I was able to do a charge-back with the CC company that I paid PayPal with. This is why they want you to register a bank account. That money would have been lost forever.

    As for Norton, always try to avoid giving them your CC info. Buy it from Amazon when possible. Or move on to a better product. Product development at Norton seems to have stalled out years ago with version 22.
     
  11. Marcelo

    Marcelo Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2005
    Posts:
    218
    Location:
    Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.
    You can use a disposable credit card as well. My CC will issue a disposable one in seconds from their web page.
     
  12. Krusty

    Krusty Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Posts:
    7,965
    Location:
    Among the gum trees
    Yeah, that's not a bad option either. I keep forgetting about them.
     
  13. zapjb

    zapjb Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2005
    Posts:
    4,941
    Location:
    USA still the best. But getting worse!
    I acknowledge there can be problems with PayPal. But what I like about PayPal & auto renewals is the authorization can be deactivated easily in PayPal.
     
  14. ProTruckDriver

    ProTruckDriver Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Posts:
    1,193
    Location:
    Stand Up For Your Country
    I've done that but once they have your credit card address they will start sending you renewal notices with private information enclosed by way of the US Postal Service as they done me.

    Post #1 that was closed on the Norton Forum:
    https://community.norton.com/en/forums/automatic-renewal-notice-and-us-mail-service

    Post #2 That was Solved, I think. We have already moved to a new residence so I don't know if Norton is sending anything to my old address:
    https://community.norton.com/en/forums/stop-sending-me-renewal-notices-us-mail-service

    This was the straw that broke the camels back with me and Norton. I don't believe I will ever put Norton Security software on my computers anymore. I will still do Safe Web Reviews for them with the Norton Browser Extension since I've been doing it for over 10 years.
     
  15. Krusty

    Krusty Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Posts:
    7,965
    Location:
    Among the gum trees
    Yes, I remember that. Pretty darn disgraceful behaviour, PTD.
     
  16. Osaban

    Osaban Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Posts:
    5,074
    I think we are witnessing the slow but systematic demise/metamorphosis of the anti-virus industry, MS Defender is good enough, why would one pay for third party protection that is already integrated with Windows?

    Norton is not the only company which uses these billing practices (won’t mention any names), I can just imagine, a lot of customers would probably find it even useful to have an automatic renewal, after all $40-$60 a year are peanuts for many.

    I for one, I am done with paid AVs, not because I can’t afford it, but they are not needed (at least on Win 10), and I would rather spend this money for charities or other useful services.
     
  17. Firecat

    Firecat Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2005
    Posts:
    8,205
    Location:
    The land of no identity :D
    This company and brand needs to resort to shady practices to survive. They haven't been a legitimate force in security in years.
    There are some very pressing issues and questions ever since Symantec/Norton split up.

    My advice: Just don't use this company's products anymore.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2020
  18. bellgamin

    bellgamin Very Frequent Poster

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2002
    Posts:
    7,049
    Location:
    Hawaii
    History has shown us, time & time again, that lack of competition is a focal point for ineptitude & apathy. When Microsoft's Internet Explorer (IE) became dominant, it caused all meaningful competition to die (except Opera). Microsoft then allowed IE to decay into mediocrity & become a honey pot for malware.

    The only reason Windows Defender is any good now is because of Microsoft's aim to eliminate competitors. Once they have accomplished that, they will no longer have the incentive to pay the salaries of expensive security experts and innovators. Ergo, Windows Defender will shortly degenerate for the same reason that Microsoft allowed Internet Explorer to degenerate.

    I am assuming, of course, that Google hasn't already buried Windows OS before all that yet-future stuff happens. Google now has 3 operating systems cooking in the oven: Android, Chrome OS, & now Fuchsia, whereas Microsoft is still doing patch, patch, & re-patch of a bloated, out-moded OS called Windoze Tin.

    Chrome VS Tin, who's gonna win? :rolleyes:
     
  19. zapjb

    zapjb Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2005
    Posts:
    4,941
    Location:
    USA still the best. But getting worse!
    Since we're kind of predicting. I predict Windows will be a Linux distro within the next 10-20yrs. M$ will disdain the distro verbage most strongly though.
     
  20. Krusty

    Krusty Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Posts:
    7,965
    Location:
    Among the gum trees
    If you can't beat 'em...
     
  21. Osaban

    Osaban Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Posts:
    5,074
    Why would MS aim to eliminate anti-malware competitors? They are not making any money out of Defender. Since Windows Vista there's been a concerted effort from MS to build an integrated security system to afford a high standard of security to all Windows users (at least on Win 10 nowadays). It didn't happen overnight, it took almost a decade. Furthermore almost every vendor nowadays has a free edition except for Eset and Norton... Regardless everyone is entitled to have their own interpretation. If I were still using Windows 7, I would certainly pay for an AV, but not on Win 10.
     
  22. bellgamin

    bellgamin Very Frequent Poster

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2002
    Posts:
    7,049
    Location:
    Hawaii
    I'm still using Win7 but I do not regularly use ANY conventional AV.
    The Windows firewall & AV might not be aimed at killing competition, but they will kill it nevertheless. Why? For the same reasons that Internet Explorer killed Netscape et alia.

    Windows is a commercial product. The word got around that Linux & Apple computers are much more secure than Windows so... a bad security reputation ensued! Bad reputation impairs sales, & security patches cost $$. So M$ spent $$ to develop a firewall & an AV for Windows. And they are still spending $$ to maintain & improve the Windows firewall & AV.

    But then, along came the comparison tests of competing AVs VS Windows Defender (WD). And those tests showed that WD was initially a poor performer. More bad reputation. So M$ spent $$ to get WD among the top tier AVs. They succeeded. And they are still spending $$ to maintain & improve the Windows firewall & AV.

    M$ is not a charitable organization. They are in business to make $$. Ergo, financial factors are the primary reason why the Windows "free" firewall & "free" AV even exist. And financial factors, plus the need to equal or exceed the effectiveness of competing AVs, are the primary reasons why the Windows firewall & AV have gradually become as good as they now are.

    Once the commercial AVs disappear, the excellence of the Windows firewall and AV will no longer be needed or even measurable. Why? Because the demise of competing products will do away with any objective basis for comparisons. As a commercial outfit, M$ won't pay the extra $$ required to sustain excellence. Why? Because, lacking any competition, "good enough" will soon become better than "excellent." How can "good enough" be better than "excellent"? Because staying good enough is less expensive than staying excellent.

    That's what occurred with Internet Explorer. IMO it will be repeated with WD -- unless Windows first fades into oblivion because of tablet computers & smart phones & smart watches & competing operating systems.
     
  23. xxJackxx

    xxJackxx Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2008
    Posts:
    5,783
    Location:
    USA
    You had me in agreement until the idea of Google beating Windows. Chrome OS is weak and I wouldn't be on Android if Windows phone still existed. Windows Defender will certainly eliminate some of the paid competition. Some of us will still pay for something more configurable without the false positives. No, Norton isn't it.
     
  24. Joxx

    Joxx Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Posts:
    1,555
    I find it the safest way to pay online.
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.