New is Better? (Not Necessarily)

Discussion in 'other firewalls' started by DVD+R, Nov 23, 2006.

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  1. DVD+R

    DVD+R Registered Member

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    The old addage that "New is Better" has some questionable uncertainty about it. Take for instance Outpost Firewal Pro, this has been in several flavours, v1.0 v2.0 v2.5 v2.6 v2.7 v3.0 v3.5 and now v4.0. I first subscribed to Outpost in 2004 and the version I got at the time was v2.5 with a Lifetime Upgrade Licence. I can remember this being a Rock Solid Firewall, at the time I was blissfully unaware of Leaktests, as I was new to the knowledge of them even though I had been on the Internet since 2002. I had previously used Sygate/Kerio and ZoneAlarm. I can remember when Agnitum announced that there was going to be a New version, v3.0 which would have added Spyware Protection, and I though Wow! this will be great,and eagerly awaited for the new release. Imagine my dissapointment when I finally installed it, and was looking all over the Firewall Interface for the Section that said "Anti-Spyware" only to discover that it was only a plug-in,and not a full functioning Anti-Spyware that was configurable. Anyway I continued with the v3.0 and found it to be very much the same as v2.5 but with this Spyware plug-in added. From then on things started to go wrong with Outpost and MSN Messenger, "It Just Wouldnt Sign-In Automaticaly" I fiddled around with rules, and even asked Outpost to permanently Allow it with no exceptions, but even that didnt work. Then comes the announcement a year later, that v4.0 new and vastly improved was about to be launched in a Beta version, I never touch Betas in my oppinion you should never install a Beta unless you have a test machine,and you arnt too worried if it gets screwed up, because you always have your main machine. On the day the final release of v4.0 was released, I eagerly installed it to see what all the fuss was about, rebooted my computer, and thats when the problems started. My Computer froze before my desktop fully loaded,and the only way out of this mess was to "Power Off" and start again, but this still happened. It turns out that this happened with 1000's of others too,and we all know how many complaints have been posted in forums etc...And I must add that v4.0 was also reporting that certain software installed on your computer, may cause system instability if you proceed with the installation of v4.0 (WTF!) Today there is a newer release to fix these software incompatibility issues, yet the warning message still appears when you install this newer version of v4.0 (Go figure! If its fixed> why still the warning?). Anyway since v4.0 has now decided it needs up to 79MB of Memory usage and above! with all the added plug-in's and added so called termination protection, I decided to throw it out, and re-install the trust worthy v2.5 again. My Computer runs like a Ferrari now, and it uses far less Memory 30MB less even, and thats while I'm writing this post,and have MSN Messenger open too! :cool: For those of you that are sceptical of using older versions of Firewalls, let me hastily mention I just ran the same tests that I ran at pcflank while using v4.0. The only difference is that is will not pass pcflank leaktest, but does pass several others, but every other test, including a complete browser test on pcflank, which v4.0 does not pass the cookie test, v2.5 does pass :) v2.5 Has a 99.9% pass rate.
    Its lighter, its faster,and its still as rock solid protection as ever :D I'll be sticking with v2.5 that is at least untill Agnitum can fix up ALL their current problems with v4.0, even then I may just wait untill v5.0 is released to see how that works. Dont be fooled that new means better, If your happy with what was not broken! "Dont try and Fix It!"
     
  2. farmerlee

    farmerlee Registered Member

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    I have been very impressed with the latest version of outpost. Its super stable with super security :). The fact that it has tauscan built in is a real bonus as it gives me decent trojan protection.
    Outpost 4 is the 'fort knox' of firewalls :)
     
  3. TairikuOkami

    TairikuOkami Registered Member

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    New version also fix security bugs, which will hardly get public. There were 2 bugs posted on Outpost forum for version 3.5, which allowed a limited user to run a cmd with admin privileges via Outpost or something like that. So using the old version may be comfortable, but not quiet secure. Eg I saw a video presentation from 2004, in which thanks to a bug in Outpost Free (2002) a hacker can gain admin access. Have you tried to disable some plugins, logging, etc?
     
  4. WSFuser

    WSFuser Registered Member

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    i rarely have problems using the latest or newest version of a software, but of course ymmv.
     
  5. Rickster100

    Rickster100 Registered Member

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    Hello DVD+R,

    I cant say I totally agree with you. Outpost 4.0 is much improved over the first final release of 4.0 IMHO - ive been using it since version 2.0. I played around a lot with the RCs when they became available for public release. I appreciate that every PC setup is different.

    Also it does pass the PC Flank leaktest, see this Outpost Forum thread, where I tested the first final release of 4.0 against many of the leaktests. Check your settings for Outpost. I do agree though, that there does need to be some improvements implimented and in time Agnitum will address them.

    There may be many users still having issues, but I would also say that there plenty more who are not having as many issues with this release. And like any software you buy, some just dont work with some users PC configurations. A fact of life. Like farmerlee, I think its the best release so far by Agnitum and its very stable and smooth on my machine. I am very happy with it. :)

    Richie
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2006
  6. the Tester

    the Tester Registered Member

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    I wouldn't consider that much of a bonus.
    Tauscan has been one of the weakest AT programs for quite a while now.
     
  7. cprtech

    cprtech Registered Member

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    The latest release is working extremely well for me. I have several of the plug-ins disabled: Content filtering. attachment filtering, advert filtering (I use Ad Muncher) and anti-spyware. The Component control is set to low because I'm using SSM full and Anti-Leak to prompt on everything. The auto-update option is also disabled. Essentially, I've got a firewall that is somewhere between basic and full-blown, damn the torpedos feature-packed.
     
  8. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

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    Hello,
    A good firewall is timeless. Many firewalls today are bloated with "currentware" (I'm coining in a new term), a popular collection of propaganda tools meant to cover would-be security aspects that are totally irrelevant to the basic function of firewalling.
    Mrk
     
  9. DVD+R

    DVD+R Registered Member

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    See there you have it! Some of you are contradicting yourselfs, saying Newer versions are more secure, Yet you are dissabling some of the features in the Newer version LOL, Oh gosh, do you know how screwed up that sounds. If its so perfect, why the need to dissable some features ? :p
     
  10. Pedro

    Pedro Registered Member

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    Not that my opinion is that important, but i think that the most important addition to a Firewall would be a sandbox module. Sure, try to improve on outbound control, but to really complement a firewall's 1st and basic function, inbound, would be IMO to isolate the applicatons that conect to the internet and pose a risk. Like the combinations FW+Sandboxie or FW+GeSWall.
    A firewall that does that for me without bloat, is the best firewall in existence.:thumb:
    Only my opinion, go ahead and criticise:D
     
  11. cprtech

    cprtech Registered Member

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    Because I can. And I never said it was perfect. SSM covers the majority of my system control needs, Ad Muncher excells at blocking adverts and NOD32 covers my antivirus and antispyware needs. Version 2.7 also has anti-stealth(rootkit) detection to improve the product.

    Besides, there are a number of other reasons I choose Outpost, not the least of which is its superior ability to resist termination attempts against it, its excellent logging functionality, anti-leak feature and active content filtering plug-in. If I want, I can run all the features but then that would be overkill and very redundant, so even with some of the plugins disabled and the Component Control set to low, it still provides excellent overall security and runs harmoniously with my other security apps. That is the beauty of this firewall: it can be fine-tuned quite nicely to fit one's needs.
     
  12. farmerlee

    farmerlee Registered Member

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    Outpost seems to have done ok in the latest malware test which is very encouraging.
     
  13. herbalist

    herbalist Guest

    The newer firewalls attempt to provide a wider scope of coverage than the old ones, such as process monitoring, detecting hooks, and a host of other "features" that aren't really firewall related, like e-mail viruses, browser popups, etc. It's as much advertising hype as anything else. As for the internet firewall components themselves, the good older firewalls were equally as good as the new ones. I still use Kerio 2.1.5 and run a separate HIPS with it, SSM free. The combination provides excellent security on both new and old systems. The downside is that the user needs to be knowlegable enough to configure them.
    Rick
     
  14. JerryM

    JerryM Registered Member

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    I am also running Kerioi 2.1.5 on my laptop. I have used it for years on a couple of machines with satisfaction.

    Jerry
     
  15. Jarmo P

    Jarmo P Registered Member

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    I see the need for sandbox type protection since unknown malware is out there.

    I am against building firewalls to be security suits, so please leave the sandbox or other HIPS's out. This wish of course will be ignored since all are trying to build a most solid fortress that will then conflict with everything else :(

    I was never a Netscape suite fan too in the olden times, hehe.
    Firefox does a good thing in being a basic browser and extensions when one needs. Them also tried first in Sandboxie or others.
    Downloaded the new IE7 yesterday as an automatic update. No menu bar as default, I put it back on, then thinked twice, switched it off. Tried to search for mouse gestures but seemed not implemented.
    I do suspect there is much in surface hidden anyways, so I went to kerio and blocked it again.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2006
  16. the Tester

    the Tester Registered Member

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  17. DVD+R

    DVD+R Registered Member

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    The self protection in the New version of Outpost 4.0 is ****!, and thats the bottom line, If a simple VBScript can close Outpost down in a split second, so ca n anything else. So much for the Raved self protection component,as soon as I tried the new version I got Microsoft Visual Runtime C++ has caused Outpost to terminate in an unexpected manner. "Unexpected My Ass"! what they do mean is they didnt even look at the possibility of this happening,and just threw out a so called updated version to fix software incompatibility issues,and did no such thing at all. Agnitum is fast becoming a company with a slack reputation of false promises. Anf before anyone happens to mention its a problem with my system, think again, This Baby is a $7000 machine 3.62Ghz with 4GB of memory,and a 500GB capacity hard drive capeable of handling whats thrown at it, If its not some bloated unfinished untested software like Outpost 4 that is. In my opinion Outpost 4 needs to be withdrawn and rewrote again,and not released untill all this crap is well and truely sorted out! :isay: I'm sure Agnitum would just love it If I sent them a bill saying your **** screwed up my machine,cause you promised everyone the troublers had been fixed!, of course that'll never work, but its just a insight
     
  18. cprtech

    cprtech Registered Member

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    The most expensive hardware on the face of the earth will do little to minimize the effects of Windows system file corruptions, software conflicts, virus plagues or incompatible drivers. This link Termination Tests contains results of termination tests on various firewalls, including Outpost 4.0 (first release). They don't have to - nor should be - taken as gospel. How they are interpreted is up to individual discretion. BTW, is your machine dual-core? I ask because many with that technology are encountering problems using ver 4.0.
     
  19. DVD+R

    DVD+R Registered Member

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    Its a x86 Family 15 Model 3 Stepping 4 GenuineIntel ~3617Mhz
    Dual Memory 4x 1,024,00MB Total Physical Memory, seriously though, Agnitum need to revoke this untill they can fix up all the known issues,I dont know one post recently where there hasnt been complaints with the stability of it as it stands, thoie without problem,s are the lucky ones I guess, those of us with problems,are **** outta luck at the moment
     
  20. cprtech

    cprtech Registered Member

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    Well DVD+R, the same bloody thing just happened to me the first time minutes ago! I was simply changing the WAN select speed in my router's interface when it happened. Outpost just shut down completely; Process Explorer revealed the Outpost process was not running. This, I have to admit, is very disturbing :mad: Furthermore, I have the outpost.exe in SSM protected against termination, yet it did nothing against this C++ Runtime error. Unfortunately, Outpost's Alert Tracker contains nothing of the error. Under Window's Event Viewer->System there is:

    "The Outpost firewall service terminated unexpectedly. It has done this one (1) times. For more information, see Help and Support..."

    I guess it is time to send a bug report to Agnitum :(
     
  21. DVD+R

    DVD+R Registered Member

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    Wow! not that I'm glad this happened to you too, cause it sucks ass Big Time!, but in a way Its a relief to know It's nothing wrong with my computer,and it is a issue that needs to be looked at by Agnitum:thumbd: You know what though! before they updated it, the first v4.0 release froze the computer, several people reported that, and all Agnitum could sugest was renaming files in the program folder:mad: that did nothing but to disable the antileak plug in, I really have lost faith in their technical help:( I'm going to have a "Live Chat" with them on Agnitums webpage,and see what they say about this
     
  22. DVD+R

    DVD+R Registered Member

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    Arnt Agnitum just super helpful! (NOT!) I just chatted Live Online to Technical Help and this is the response: :rolleyes:

    George: Hello, Outpost has just shutdown with this error: Microsoft Visual Runtime Error C++ and reported this Error also:
    "The Outpost firewall service terminated unexpectedly. It has done this one (1) times. For more information, see Help and Support..."
    Angelina: Hello.
    Angelina: This problem will be fixed in the next version.
    George: Ok when will that be ?
    Angelina: Sorry, we do not disclose the release date.
    George: ok thanks
    Angelina: You are welcome.

    See what I mean about losing faith in Agnitum :mad:
     
  23. zapjb

    zapjb Registered Member

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    DVD+R

    Please some spaces between paragraphs.

    Thank you.
     
  24. cprtech

    cprtech Registered Member

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    They probably will try to fix the problem for the next version, but things have not gone all that well since the development of ver 4.0. It's caused so much ongoing grief for many who use it. That was also the first time I had ever seen any version of Outpost terminate in no uncertain terms. Usually the outpost.exe process is still running after the firewall crashes. Up until the crash yesterday, I had not encountered any problems with the latest 4.0 version, which I still find annoying and disturbing. We'll see what Agnitum comes up with next after revisiting the drawing board. All I know is they better get the problems ironed out soon, because there are many customers losing their patience, and I will be one of them if I don't see this problem resolved in the next release.
     
  25. Rickster100

    Rickster100 Registered Member

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    Hello cprtech, DVD+R,

    If you both have not already done so, contact Agnitum Support and submit a detailed report (with perhaps logs etc) so that at least Agnitum can look into these issues you are having and perhaps work with you to get a solution.

    Richie
     
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