New hard drive - must it be formatted before cloning to it?

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by Wedge1, May 11, 2006.

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  1. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

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    I can't find any reference to "be sure you use the BootCD version" in the help file or the User Guide but your statement about Windows having control is not one I'd care to argue against; it seems very logical.
     
  2. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

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    That is one reason why you don't see the so-called brand names at my house. I would never buy an OS, even if it came with a PC, without a proper CD.
     
  3. TheQuest

    TheQuest Registered Member

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    Hi, Secure1

    When you had the problem restore to a new HDD was an old build, and did you either not Image the full HDD [with MBR] or did not restore all of the Partitions in the Image if more then one, because that did use to cause problems with the older Versions and Builds.
    I know it is a cheek that they do it, but Legally you should be given it, as I said if needed with the Law on your side everbody with an entitlement to one should get [claim] one.

    Take Care,
    TheQuest :cool:
     
  4. TheQuest

    TheQuest Registered Member

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    Hi, seekforever

    If Windows Management does not show the HDD [as not been initialize] Ti can not see it.

    But with the BootCD Ti is using the BIOS settings to see things.

    Take Care,
    TheQuest :cool:
     
  5. Secure1

    Secure1 Registered Member

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    I selected the entire disk for the restore. This included an old hibernation partition, the MBR/Track0, and the c: partition. Not sure why the system didn't want to boot. I wasn't asked to resize the partitions, something I was hoping to do, as the new drive was larger than the old one, nor was I asked which partition was to be active, but I presume TI knew the answer that this already, from the backup image.

    On the second try I only selected the c: partition to restore. But that didn't work either. That time I was prompted for active part. (which I selected) and was able to resize the partition to fill the new disk. I guess these prompts appeared either because the new disk was now initialized from the previous restore, or since I did not select mbr/track0 as an option.
     
  6. bVolk

    bVolk Registered Member

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    Secure1,

    To set up a new system disk in a straightforward TI way, you need an image of the entire disk and you have to restore the image of the entire disk as well (the box next to Disk1 ticked for both operations).

    If the new drive is larger than the original, you can perform the restoration again, this time a partition restore, selecting the partition you would like to stretch to take up the additional space. Only partition restore allows you to change partition size.

    If your original drive had more than one partition, but the image you have available contains only C: and the MBR, you must first partition the new disk to as many partitions as the original and then restore partition C: to it. If the MBR was not a common Windows one, you should restore that too (on a second pass). Now the previously stored MBR will match the actual partition structure on the new disk.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2006
  7. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

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    Hello Everyone,

    Thank you for choosing Acronis Disk Backup Software.

    Could you please post here exact models of the hard drives, which weren't recognized by Acronis True Image before their initialization in Disk Management?

    Thank you.
    --
    Anton Sherkhonov
     
  8. Stevis

    Stevis Registered Member

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    I have to restore a crashed internal HD from an external back up drive. I have read this thread and I am a bit confused. Can someone please verify that I have the process right:

    1) Install the new internal drive
    2) Attach the external usb drive
    3) boot from the Acronis CD
    4) Perform the restore
    5) detach the usb drive before rebooting

    There is no need to partition or format the new drive.
     
  9. bVolk

    bVolk Registered Member

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    Correct, as long as you'll be restoring an entire disk image.

    If your original disk was partitioned to C: and D: but you imaged C: only, then the third paragraph of my previous post apllies.
     
  10. Wedge1

    Wedge1 Registered Member

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    Sorry my response is quite late, but as per your request:
    Seagate ST3250623A
     
  11. bVolk

    bVolk Registered Member

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    I had an interesting experience a few days ago.

    I bought a new USB HD enclosure because the old one wasn't very well accepted by TI in rescue mode. This new enclosure takes IDE and SATA disks.

    First I tested the compatibility of the chipset with a smaller IDE HD I already had. External disk recognized, all well. Then I went to buy a big SATA-II (Seagate ST3250624AS) and arranged with the seller that I could exange it for an IDE if SATA didn't work with TI from my enclosure, but I should refrain from formatting it, if ever possible. So I installed the SATA HD into the enclosure and went to explore with the SATA still blank.

    My Computer saw the external as a New Volume. Then I booted from TI Rescue CD and it was seen from there too. Great, now I can format it. I rebooted in Windows, but now My Computer would not show it any more. Disconnected the enclosure and reconnected again, rebooted the machine - no go. Then I went into Disk Management and without further ado the New Disk Wizard came up and offered to initialize the drive. I did that and the drive was shown in My Computer again. I returned to Disk Management, formatted the disk and all's well.

    BTW, the new enclosure is an LC Power EH-35BS with a JMicron JM20337 chipset.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2006
  12. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    bVolk,

    A few months ago I bought a Vantec enclosure that only holds SATA HDs. It can connect to the computer via eSATA or USB cables. Initially I tried the SATA connection but couldn't see the HD in Windows. Eventually I upgraded my SATA drivers from ver 4 to ver 5 (Intel) and the HD appeared. Strange, as I could see my two internal SATA HDs with ver 4 drivers. It was fast, around 45 MB/sec (SATA 1) transfer, but after copying more than 2 GB my computer froze with a "Delayed Write Failure" error. This happened everytime at around the 2 GB mark.

    So I then tried the USB mode and it's fine. 25 MB/sec transfer and it never fails. I emailed Vantec numerous times and I'm still waiting for a response. Terrible support. At least it works in USB mode and I can use my spare SATA HD.

    I gather your connection is USB.
     
  13. mark3

    mark3 Registered Member

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    TI Rescue CD will deal with bare-metal but TI Windows will not because it cannot see the disk until it is initialized. TI Windows depends on Windows OS and the latter does not see a HDD unless the disk is initialized.

    This is verified by the next quote (except for the first sentence which goes against the grain), in this same thread -

     
  14. bVolk

    bVolk Registered Member

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    Brian K,

    Yes, it's connected through USB.

    But it's good to know these details about eSATA. I would have probably gone the eSATA route if my computer had the port for it. No (or should I say less) protocol conversions - a sure winner.
     
  15. bVolk

    bVolk Registered Member

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    mark3,

    There is no misunderstanding. I'm positive about My Computer reporting the blank disk as New Volume until Linux touched it. After that there was no trace of it in My Computer, although the Plug-and-Play tone chimed upon connecting the drive and the Safely Disconnect Mass Storage Device icon showed up, but without a drive letter assigned.

    If that's really "against the grain" (I didn't know it was), you'll once be proud of having known Boris Volk from Slovenia.

    :D :D :D


    An afterthought.

    What if this behaviour was caused by the fact that the same enclosure had been connected to the computer before, that time with an already formatted disk installed? No glory for bVolk then, I'm afraid. Sorry for you too, mark3.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2006
  16. mark3

    mark3 Registered Member

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    Don't get me wrong, bVolk, I was not trying to criticise your observation. When I said that "it went against the grain", I meant that my statement did not fit in with your observation and I could not explain why that actually happened. Theoretically it should not have shown a New Volume with a brand new disk that had not been initialized.

    Your afterthought may show that an OS has lapses in memory. :D
     
  17. bVolk

    bVolk Registered Member

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    mark3,

    Understood you perfectly and was amused by the expression. That's the reason for my quotes. Was just catching the occasion for playing a lighter tune. Hope nobody minds. :D
     
  18. Computer1

    Computer1 Registered Member

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    If I didn't image the ENTIRE drive and only the current partition, am I out of luck trying to restore my HDD? My previous one crashed and I don't know how the partitions were set to recreate them exactly as before. I ran TI from the GUI on a periodic basis, so I guess I messed up by not getting the ENTIRE image...

    When restoring, I did have an option to check that mentioned MBR and drive 0 or my C: partition. I could only check one or the other. I never consciously backed up MBR and drive 0 though. If I restore MBR and drive 0 first and then go back to restore the C: partition, can I get back to working status?

    Please tell me that I can get back to working order...




    Some [hopefully] helpful details:
    • I am getting the "Windows could not start because of a computer disk hardware configuration problem" error after a recovery of ONLY the C: partition.
    • I ran the WinXP Recovery Console and I cannot perform a bootcfg /rebuild or /add because of an error that states "Failed to successsfully scan disks for Windows installations. This error may be caused by a corrupt file system, which would prevent Bootcfg from successfully scanning. Use chkdsk to detect any disk errors."
    • I ran chkdsk /p and came up with unspecified errors.
     
  19. bcool2

    bcool2 Registered Member

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    I'm surprised by your assertion that WINXP installation disks rarely accompany new PC's. Is that really common practice? That ain't right.
     
  20. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

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    Just how rare is "rarely", I don't know. A lot of the big-name vendors (Dell, HP,...) which have a significant share of the market supply a recovery disk that apparently is not a regular XP installation disk but a means to get the machine back to where it was when it left the factory. They may be configured to work with the data in a special partition on the disk.

    Friend of mine got a new Dell and was able to buy a real XP CD for it from Dell for a few dollars.

    I sort of understand the rationale of doing it this way since these vendors claim 24/7 support for their systems. Presumably this is an easier way to restore a system with some obscure fault via telephone with a customer who literally doesn't have a clue about disks, RAM, OSs etc. Providing a real XP disk could be a recipe for disaster.

    People, like most on this forum, who have worked with computers, see them as a hobby, or have learned something about them because of interest, tend to forget there are many people out there who use the PC like a car. "I do this and it goes" without the faintest idea of how a transmission works.
     
  21. rafael

    rafael Registered Member

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    I have assisted newbies in buying new computers the last 12 months. The least expensive units does not have an xp cd or a restore cd/dvd( in order to cut down on cost and be very competitive). The restore cd can be made by the buyer, or it can be done by the store at a small fee. Three years ago, the hard drive had single partition ( mostly NTFS )containing everything but the xp cd was also included in the purchase price. Nowadays, no more xp cd on cheaper computers but it now resides in another partition ( usually in the Fat 32 )in the same hard drive.This can be copied/restored to the working partition if needed and put back the computer to it's original state.

    The higher priced models are in general, come with xp cd's, a few full licensed softwares and of course the usual security suites on trial for limited number of days.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2006
  22. bVolk

    bVolk Registered Member

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    Computer1,

    See my post #31 above. Note that the partitions you will create before restoring C: need not be the same size as the originals, but there should be the same number of them.

    If your original MBR was not a modified one, you shouldn't need to restore the MBR included with the C: partition image (on second pass).

    Your running the backups from GUI (Windows) was not the reason for obtaining images of C: partition only instead of the entire disk: you should have ticked the box next to Disk 1. That applies for Windows as well as for rescue environment (after booting from Rescue CD).
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2006
  23. Computer1

    Computer1 Registered Member

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    Thank you for your response bVolk.

    I added another partition, and I was able to pass that error. Thanks. But now I have an error that indicates a missing or corrupt hal.dll. I am still unable to bootcfg /add or /repair due to the "Failed to successsfully scan disks for Windows installations. This error may be caused by a corrupt file system, which would prevent Bootcfg from successfully scanning. Use chkdsk to detect any disk errors" error.

    For kicks, I checked the boot.ini file on C: and found that partition was indicated as (2) on both sections (all other numbers were (0)). Does this mean that the boot.ini and concurrent C: drive needs to be on the second partition? Or does it mean that there are two partitions on the disk? I couldn't seem to edit the boot.ini file using the Recovery Console command prompt as the EDIT command was not an available option.

    I really appreciate all of your help in this. I really need to get this drive back in working order... well, my Outlook files are pertinent in this case.



    Side note: Even though Disk0 / MBR have a checkbox in the recovery process, there isn't a file size like there indicated like there is with the C: partition that is also available as a checkbox.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2006
  24. bVolk

    bVolk Registered Member

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    I'm afraid the hal.dll problem is beyond me, but I'm sure other members will be able to help you.

    I remember HAL being mentioned in connection with SysPrep, the preparation required if you want to migrate to another computer with different hardware. Did you carry out any other hardware changes besides replacing the HD drive?
     
  25. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

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    I don't have any confident advice to give you but perhaps this might help; ;it is out of an Acronis post on boot problems that I copied. I haven't read this thread so I hope you haven't already tried it. Use at your own peril but it seems you don't have much to lose by trying it.

    "Please boot your computer from the Windows Bootable CD, then go to the Recovery Console (the first Repair option you come to).

    From the command prompt please type:

    FIXMBR C:
    FIXBOOT C:
    COPY CDDrive:\I386\NTLDR C:\
    COPY CDDrive:\I386|NTDETECT.COM C:\
    BOOTCFG /rebuild

    After that, please reboot your computer.
     
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