NAV...past glory

Discussion in 'other anti-virus software' started by nod32_9, Dec 21, 2004.

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  1. nod32_9

    nod32_9 Guest

    Like AOHELL, Norton/SYMANTEC was one of the first stable AV solution. NAV hasn't changed much in years while its competitors have made big advances in detection, speed, and stability. And like AOHELL, NAV will continue to lose market share over time.

    If NOD32 has the financial resources to advertise like NAV, then it would probably rise to the #1 AV spot in 2 years. The strategy of using resellers is a flawed one. The trick is to bundle the trial version of NOD with each new PC. Keep the price at $15-20/year and make it up with volume. Heck, I'll even drop my free copy of Avast Home in favor of NOD. Adding a few servers to support thousands of new customers is a win-win solution.
     
  2. bigc73542

    bigc73542 Retired Moderator

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    I just read an article that said that from 2004/2005 symantec"norton" gained sales of 36% and trend micro gained 22%. It doesn't look as if norton has lost any sales or has gone down hill.

    McAfee's worldwide antivirus software revenue declined 7.1 percent between 2002 and 2003, according to IDC. During the same period, Symantec's antivirus revenue jumped by 36 percent and Trend's by 22 percent.

    (from an article from PC-World)
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2004
  3. Jimbob1989

    Jimbob1989 Registered Member

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    In my opinion, there is some truth behind this. A lot of my friends are not using Norton or Symantech any more, simply because you can get better and they want the best they can get.

    Also, I should think with the huge increase in router sales, there are many people who are just using their router hardware firewall and so have no or little need for a software firewall as well.

    Jimbob
     
  4. se7engreen

    se7engreen Registered Member

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    Mainstream products please people who care less about the inner-workings.
     
  5. TopperID

    TopperID Registered Member

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    That is a potentially fatal attitude! A bi-directional FW is not a luxury, it is a necessity. Have a look at this link and see how a FW saved the day - without it these victims would have had their passwords and bank details stolen without being any the wiser:- https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=54750 :rolleyes:
     
  6. Jimbob1989

    Jimbob1989 Registered Member

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    Can you explain that a little further please for those of us who are looking at this thread while half asleep. And those who might not have taken in what you just said.

    Thanks,
    Jimbob
     
  7. Jimbob1989

    Jimbob1989 Registered Member

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    Good point, however there are other tools that can do practically the same job are there not?

    Jimbob
     
  8. nod32_9

    nod32_9 Guest

    Sales as in revenues. SYMC has raised the subcription fee by $5 each year since 2001. New PC sales ain't growing at 36%/year. Charge people $30 to talk to mediocre customer support. That will also add to the bottom-line. That's the game in Wall Street. But ya can't fudge data forever. Remember WorldCom? Symantec is using its pumped-up stock price to acquire a much slower growing company Veritas, because it knows that it is competing against many superior AV vendors. Ya can't jack up the price $5/year indefinitely!

    Oh yeah, SYMC's stock dropped from 34 to 24 with the announcement of the Veritas acquisition. The days of pie-in-the-sky PRO FORMA growth is OVER. Starting in June 2005, US companies must report GAAP earnings. The dilutive effect of options must be included in the report.
     
  9. TopperID

    TopperID Registered Member

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    So much for layered defence, if you strip out the layers!
     
  10. Notok

    Notok Registered Member

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    I think for every customer Norton loses, there's 2 more new computer users that just got home from BestBuy/their local computer shop with that shiny yellow box. It certainly seems true, however, that there are more people seeking alternatives to NAV than ever before. I would chalk this up to entropy.

    The trick would be to do this without triggering a flood of requests for all the extra crap that tends to dilute AVs, I imagine the demand for this would be greatest from former (home) NAV users. Getting NOD32 bundled in with HIGH END/gaming systems, however, would probably help. Can you imagine if Alienware was known to bundle NOD32 in with their machines?
     
  11. Jimbob1989

    Jimbob1989 Registered Member

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    I notice that when we talk about if a product is doing well or not, we automatically look at its sales, however their is one thing which we have not taken into consideration and that is piracy.

    Norton has been made so it is reasonably secure against piracy, compared to most of the other packages available anyway. I should imagine this puts off the users who are not willing to pay for the product.

    Note: this post is in no way premoting piracy or potraying that piracy is an acceptable activity.

    Jimbob
     
  12. nod32_9

    nod32_9 Guest

    SYMC's insiders are selling like FELONS, and I don't blame them. SYMC's actual earning would be cut by at least 30% if these exercised options were treated as part of doing business.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/q/it?s=SYMC
     
  13. the mul

    the mul Registered Member

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    I used to have NAV, but got rid of that hungry monster a long time ago and have now gone with kav and nod as a back up and have not looked back since.
    I have to confess to using AOL, but I have had no problems and I have plenty of ram to run it and all my other programmes as well.

    THE MUL
     
  14. Jimbob1989

    Jimbob1989 Registered Member

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    Antivirus Comparisons from 2002.

    Jimbob
     

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  15. se7engreen

    se7engreen Registered Member

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    Certainly-
    What I mean is, people who don't know or care to know about tech specs or advanced detection methods look for a name they can associate with being the best. It's a commodity business and a lot of people just want a name they've heard before.

    Others like to get down and dirty, and do the homework, and find less know alternatives that work better for them. Of course, this is the minority of the protection purchasing public.
     
  16. Shaker

    Shaker Registered Member

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    Was any reason given why McAfee's revenue declined? Is it because there are so many other antivirus products out there. Just curious because I think it's a better product than Symantec's NAV.
     
  17. bigc73542

    bigc73542 Retired Moderator

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    It didn't give a reason for the decline. I also believe that mcafee is as good as any antivirus on the market and better than most imo.

    bigc
     
  18. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    Norton will probably be number one (in sales not necessarily quality) for a long time, why, because most users of Norton know nothing about pc security and simply go along with the crowd. (errr, I also use Norton but not because I believe it to be number one in quality). As for the Norton stock, ARE YOU KIDDING, now is the perfect buying opportunity! Just watch this stock, I bet in 2-4 weeks it gains 5-10%, just watch.

    Acadia

    EDIT: Today, Norton stock went up 3.87%.
     
  19. Shaker

    Shaker Registered Member

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    Hmmm. Thanks bigc73542. I agree with you about McAfee.
     
  20. nod32_9

    nod32_9 Guest

    Could hit 27...but several days of +1000% volume usually spells trouble with institutional support. This is a momentum stock. Broke 200MA yesterday. Forward PE is 24. Buyers always think that they know more about the company than the insiders. Common excuses are:

    -it's different this time
    -insiders are selling for diversification
    -users know nothing about PC and simply go along with the crowd

    If you use this logic, then ATT should be the KING of telecom. Great name. Had a monopoly on land line. I could go on....
     
  21. nod32_9

    nod32_9 Guest

    Up 4% after a 30% haircut. Some people like to catch a falling knife. The stock has appreciated from 5 to 34 in four years. Greed and fear. That's what makes the market. Conexant (CNXT) had a monopoly in the analog modem business in the late 90s. Went from 140 to 2!

    Veritas is under investigation for cooking the books. Its acquisition will result in slower growth for the merged entity. I don't believe SYMC can continue to raise price by $5 a year because its annual subscription is already approaching $30. People will learn that there are cheaper and more effective solutions out there.
     
  22. nod32_9

    nod32_9 Guest

    Ford and GM used to rule the US automotive market because people see them as the leaders in performance and styling. Today, Toyota is the undisputed KING in quality. And I would give the edge in styling to Honda and Nissan. And most of these people don't know squat about engine design and high-performance driving.

    It's very difficult to stay at the top unless you're constantly ahead of the competitors in price and performance.
     
  23. nameless

    nameless Registered Member

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    Give me a break. If GM gave away a crapmobile with every house a person bought, and sold "car subscriptions", they'd rule the market like no auto maker ever has.

    The auto market and anti-virus software market is an utterly terrible comparison to draw. The only similarity between them is that money and greed is involved.
     
  24. BlueZannetti

    BlueZannetti Administrator

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    Yea, the economics of tooling up, production, and distribution are a whole lot different.

    Of course, despite one's feelings on the matter, that's why we witnessed the buyout of Giant Software by Microsoft. An 11 or 12 employee operation (I saw both numbers quoted) arguably at the top of the antispyware heap. I wonder what the size of Microsoft's internal effort (accounting for overhead) was?

    The software industry is one place where the cost to penetrate a market can be almost nil. There's still plenty of opportunity for the small guy - although I will grant you that opportunity may only be to get quickly eaten by the larger fish...

    Blue
     
  25. nod32_9

    nod32_9 Guest

    Provide specific examples on why this is a bad comparison. People don't buy a new house every 3 years to get a free car! Perhaps you should apply for the CEO position at GM since you already have the solution to GM's woes.
     
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