Mozilla Will Serve Ads Within Tiles Of Its New Tab Pages

Remember this one? :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_be_evil Companies change, especially in the era of "Big Data".

 

Well if this is indeed the case, I think we might have trouble finding a suitable replacement. Even with so many chrome and firefox branches, it remains to see how many will follow in the way of mozilla. I'm definately not looking forward to giving up the built-in developers tools, certain add-ons, and degree of customization. I'm trying to be optimistic about this, but at the very least I'll keep looking for a replacement. I also plan to protest the change by not downloading the update. I recommend others that feel the same way do the same thing.

Guess we are just going to have to keep our heads up and keep looking for a place to jump off this crazy train. I'd like to take as many folks with me when we find a suitable replacement. Problem is so many that hate Australis have already got replacements like Chrome and IE in mind. I can understand the switch to IE, but the switch from Australis to Chrome still doesn't make sense to me.

 

K-Meleon is on it's way back ...

 

Techwhiz, there really aren't that many Firefox and Chrome branches though. On the Firefox side, you've really only got Waterfox (is that still around, btw?), Cyberfox and Pale Moon. On the Chrome side, what few branches there are consist of mainly playing on privacy fears and removing completely misunderstood and vilified things like Installation ID and RLZ-Tracking.

The guy running Cyberfox promises to remove the ads:https://8pecxstudios.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=304#p1712. Hopefully he actually can.

Mhf, I don't think so. Even with a somewhat working new Beta going on at the moment, that time has come and gone.

I think one of three things will happen with Mozilla:

1. People will end up getting over the ads and interface changes like most did when these changes started happening. Oh sure, some flocked to places like Wilders and Mozilla forums and groaned, promising they'd burn Mozilla at the stake and quit. But they didn't. Lol, it kind of reminds me of a few MMO forums. Players will holler at anyone paying attention to them and threaten to quit and "speak with their wallet" at every little change they don't like. A month or so down the road, these same people are still logged in to the games, and still b****ing on the forums about quitting.

2. Mozilla usage will drop to Opera levels because the hardcore config tweakers will give up and casuals will drift away or stop coming because of bad word of mouth.

3. Mozilla will go the way of Netscape and others. If all this is due to money issues and Google not renewing its contract, then Mozilla is going to have its hands full trying to get that kind of money out of advertisements on a page that people only see on a new tab and only if they haven't changed the settings and never click links on the web (which I believe open up in a new tab by default, therefore people never seeing the "blank tab page" as it is now).

**Edit** I was wrong about links opening up in a new tab. But still, the new tab page won't be seen because links will open in the same tab you are using.

 

That guy does with Pale Moon exactly what Mozilla will do with Firefox.

 

Possible, I'm working off of year and half old data. I don't follow the branching too closely, but I seem to remember a number of branches including ironfox, waterfox, and I believe there was a icefox as well if memory serves me correctly.

I'm seen mention of Cyberfox, but I haven't actually taken a look at their browser. I'll have to add this to my list of candidates for consideration, but we'll have to wait and see.

This is a very realistic possibility. People tend to gripe about problems verbal, but when it comes to taking action they roll over. I think we've become a little too tolerant to change. Even when it makes us miserable.

Not uncommon for community support to drop off. Usually the folks helping get bored or move on when they hit a brick wall up by the developer. Mozilla's efforts to do a overhaul of their browser could very well be one of several bricks to be set down moving forward.

 

But isn't IceFox a Linux version of Firefox, and named so because of some legal issues? If so, that leaves a good chunk of FF users out. Actually, just doing a little searching now on Google I can't even find what looks to be a legit download site for it. Having used Cyberfox in the past and seeing the support given in its forums, it's likely to be the one branch that manages to stay afloat.

Google has no need for Firefox or anything it has to offer, so that would be out. MS could possibly turn it into some XBox browser or some stupid junk like that, but that would be about all they'd do with it.

 

FWIW, Mozilla Chair's blog entry (no detailed info, but some might want to read it): https://blog.lizardwrangler.com/2014/02/13/content-ads-caution/

I recall the collection of search engine usage info by Firefox's Health Report: https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/file/default/services/healthreport/docs/. I believe one or more involved with this attempted to justify it on the basis that it was necessary to monitor the use of search engines with which Mozilla has a financial placement agreement. Given the parallels, I think we must assume that Mozilla would also collect information about sponsored tile usage and any other "content" they are paid to display.

I noticed when skimming https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/file/d275eebfae04/services/healthreport/docs/dataformat.rst that it appears the Desktop version of Firefox collects per-search-provider info for search partners and the info for all other search providers is lumped under "other". However, it appears the Android version of Firefox collects per-search-provider info for all search providers.

 

I don't think there are any ads left on the web that don't do some sort of tracking. After all, how the hell are they "tailored to user experience" if they just sit there and show a picture? You know good and well Facebook is going to be one of those "sponsors", and I wish Mozilla all the luck in the world telling them "No tracking". I think the guy is just trying to keep the torches from being lit too quickly. It's obvious they have to get money somehow to keep going, and I'll admit I don't have any good alternative answers.

 

I haven't used FireFox since it was called Firebird. Always preferred the Mozilla Suite, which later became SeaMonkey. If Mozilla-FireFox wants to become adware, they can keep it. If SeaMonkey, Palemoon, and the others follow the same path as FireFox, I'll stay with the last version that I trust and let Proxomitron deal with any exploit code that's discovered. Staying current isn't worth it when it comes with a tradeoff like this.

 

Someone in a position at Mozilla attempts to ratify the attempt at a revenue based Browser -
https://blog.lizardwrangler.com/

 

"More Details on Directory Tiles"
https://blog.mozilla.org/advancingcontent/2014/02/13/more-details-on-directory-tiles/

 

Yeah, sure! And I suppose Firefox doesn't connect to any server to get them, right?

 

http://www.informationweek.com/clou...-firefox-ads-will-users-buy-it/d/d-id/1113821

 

Well, my opinion would be unpopular among folks here.
You are warned.

I think this is a great move. I honestly do.

While the Google-Mozilla partnership to set default search engine has brought in the necessary revenue so far, Mozilla can no longer depend on it as much as they used to. Google has its own browser now which sees increasing usage/adoption.

This move allows Mozilla the chance to diversify their revenue stream in order to sustain the project and keep Firefox alive. Being non-profit does not mean there is no need for money....but people just don't get it. It's pretty obvious to me that they are taking steps to finding a balance between financial needs and optimizing the experience for users...it is a thin line to walk on but nope, let's not acknowledge that and start portraying them as some sort of evil money-hungry organization that has strayed away from their roots. It's spicier that way..

What I'm seeing here is plenty of unnecessary negative assumptions and unfounded allegations against Mozilla. There is nothing to prove they are contradicting the Manifesto. There is nothing to prove claims of Mozilla no longer being "transparent and accountable".
All because of the word 'ads'. Oh yeah...that itself is a complicated subject.

I don't think it's enough to justify the thrash talk though. It's easy to forget t what Mozilla has done for the open-source community. Alas, I may be alone in my thoughts here...so pardon my words and have fun guys.

 

There have been many controlled studies on human nature, especially at Universities. One study I read (sorry can not find an electronic copy), participants were faced with 10 squares of which 5 were marked with something very familiar to them. The other 5 were labelled as follows: Deals, Special Offer, Promotions, Free, Final Sale. Each participant was asked to select only 5 out of the 10 squares and then explain their choice and the order in which they chose. There were 300 participants and 90% of them went for the unfamiliar squares first and only 15% picked a familiar content square at all. Asked if they would revisit the unfamiliar squares again, they overwhelmingly replied yes but only if their first experience was a good one.

What did this prove? Labels have to entice, Curiosity is a major human driver and humans must be satisfied/gratified/rewarded to continue a specific behavior.

Maybe this is what Mozilla will be counting on with their Tiles. IMHO, the 3rd finding will be the most difficult to achieve. Success will be fleeting if they miss the first finding.

 

I understand that they need to make money but showing ads with most likely tracking behind our backs is not something that I would be keen on. I would most likely uninstall the browser and go another route.
They could save a lot of money by not developing new features. Maintain Firefox for security fixes only. Also they could fire their UI developers, they have been more annoying than helpful to my browser experience. And talk to Microsoft and see if they could outbid Google.
Now once all of the above is done and they are still short on money then I would be more sympathetic towards their cause.

 

Safeguy, actually I'm not going to attack your position on the matter because in a lot of ways you're right. These men and women have to eat, have to pay bills, etc. If Mozilla could count on donations from its user base to keep afloat, that would be wonderful. But we don't live in that reality and financially it wouldn't likely be enough even then. Costs of operating tend to only go up, as does the costs of living. I don't think the issue is Mozilla making money, hopefully no one is that dense and selfish. The issue lies with the ad industry and the likely many ways they could take advantage of a company coming to them for money.

Mozilla may very well not want to make things ugly for their users, but the industry they are about to depend on doesn't have such reservations. Neither will the inevitable Facebook and such partnerships. It's what these guys will "request" of Mozilla in order to partner with them that is the biggest concern here.

Matdocs12345, I've been wondering about MS paying for their search engine in FF too. But then I realized that, one, they aren't likely to pay the kind of money Google was handing out, and Mozilla needs more money not less. Two, I'm thinking MS is still in a deal with Yahoo to power the Yahoo engine, so they really couldn't move right now anyway.

 

Even if there were no way around the ads in a blank new tab, it's possible to use Firefox in such a way that you never see a blank new tab. My search results and bookmarks always open in a new tab automatically (due to settings that I use in Tab Mix Plus). When I'm done with a tab, I close it manually (using a simple mouse gesture with FireGestures for speed).

 

Lets break out some bits from that https://blog.mozilla.org/advancingcontent/2014/02/13/more-details-on-directory-tiles/ link siljaline posted...

30 days before Tiles are updated for a new user? Is that the way current releases work or are they lengthening the period of updates to cause ads to linger?

An IP Address based location determination or a WiFi/Tower/GPS based location determination? For those who don't know, Mozilla recently began their own program to map "WiFi access points, cell towers, etc" around the world: https://location.services.mozilla.com/.

Although what I've read so far doesn't totally rule out the possibility that the tiles could be built in the installer, several things... their being location based, the potential for there to be many such advertising tiles, their being rotated, and what sounds like a 30-day display period... suggests to me that they may be retrieved via a separate mechanism and involve multiple contacts with Mozilla ad servers.

The "basic metrics that marketers or content publishers might need" are a huge part of what makes today's advertising and other systems a threat to privacy/security. For they almost always revolve around a cookie, GUID, or other mechanism to uniquely identify users and acquire per-unique-user datapoints. We'll have to take a very close look at what they collect and how they collect it. If it is via Firefox Health Report then we may already know how to prevent it. If they use a new/separate mechanism, we will have to figure out how to stop the phoning home.

 

In other words, the whole "we won't track you" thing is BS. If it won't be built in to Firefox, then it'll be a much bigger issue that about:config tweakers won't likely be able to fix. Actually, 30 days isn't that bad..but then again, "reflects sites they've recently seen and frequently visited"..aka "Tracking". They don't have a choice, otherwise it won't work. Related to that is the question of what about the current options for Firefox not to save any data and remember history? Will that interfere with this? If it does, how do they plan on dealing with that? And, you're right, the "basic metrics" is where things are likely to go screwy. Mozilla may not want or need more beyond IP address and a general idea of what your interests are. But the advertisers involved are an entirely different story.

 

I don't believe that refers to something we would typically call "tracking". I believe it refers to the already existing nature of tiles. That they are chosen based on "recently seen/frequently visited" information that it maintained on the client device. In contexts where information doesn't leave the user's device, there is no "they" receiving information and "tracking" you.

IOW, I think the "At that point the user will start seeing content that reflects the sites they’ve recently and frequently visited." phase is the one we probably aren't concerned about. It is the phase before that... the 30 day window during which advertising tiles will be displayed... that we are definitely concerned about.

That alone would be of considerable concern. However...

Absolutely. It is why knowledgeable, experienced, and wise users have an immediate and strong negative reaction to any suggestion of advertising support.

I certainly wouldn't want to see it, but Mozilla could include advertising content in Firefox and get that advertising onto the client in a safe/generic/non-revealing way. Then, choose which ads are displayed based on nothing but client side information. If everything were done properly, Mozilla would receive zero information about the user's interests and activities, and even the advertised sites would upon click through see nothing but a generic visit to a well known public page.

Generally speaking, those in the advertising industry don't like that type of idea at all because it prevents them from gathering information and maximizing their profits. At a minimum, they would object to the inability to count impressions and base pricing off of those actual numbers. Some intermediaries would also object to at least the inability to also count click-throughs. Many would object to the mere idea that any data collection and use of the information would be limited in some way. However, history has proven that advertising works without such data collection... and given a choice between "you don't advertise here" and "you advertise here the way we tell you to", you know many advertisers would accept what they can get.

Unfortunately, given Mozilla's decision to start collecting the search provider usage, their closer relationship with the IAB, and the stated plan to collect metrics for these ad tiles, it doesn't seem like Mozilla is even willing to try to hold the line on data collection.

 

The frequently viewed sites tiles are not a danger, you're right. But the sponsored tiles are going to have to have some way of being relevant and "tailored". It's these tiles I'm worried about. Again, what if a user doesn't allow Firefox to retain data such as history, blocks 3rd party cookies by default, etc? The sponsored ads are going to conflict with Firefox being so configurable compared to other browsers. That's why I am concerned about what Mozilla will do to avoid the entire program being useless. If they had ads right this minute with no secret behind the scenes tweaking, and the config options left as they currently are, that program would be a bust before it even started.

 

Giving Yandex a test drive after Firefox broke an extension.
http://browser.yandex.com/desktop/?from=allpromo

Also trying it on android tablet and it is spectacular.