Metropipe = Xerobank = Cryptohippie

Discussion in 'privacy technology' started by oldymin, Oct 31, 2008.

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  1. Hillsboro

    Hillsboro Registered Member

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    Why don't you email Kyle and ask him? kyle.kwilliams [at] gmail [dot] com Nothing like going directly to the person in question. Point him to this thread while you are at it. Xerobank is using his name. See what he thinks of it all.
     
  2. caspian

    caspian Registered Member

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    I know that he (oldymin) was pointing out a problem that he had with Xerobank using the same servers or whatever. But that is an old issue that was brought up months and months ago. And it was also discussed that guys in that industry know each other.......at least the ones that have been in the forefront of it for a long time. Steve said a long time ago that he knows other people involved in anonymity services, including (I think) some people from MP (I think he said that anyway). Also Kyle (JanusVM) who many regard as a valuable asset in the fight for privacy and freedom of speech has offered some support with XB Machine or something like that. I, and many others, consider him to be a very worthy and valuable source of knowledge and expertise. I have never heard anyone suggest that he is anything but sincere.

    But anyway, I have absolutely no problem with him (oldymin) voicing a concern. But when he starts accusing me of being Steve or being a liar, then I'm gonna speak up. That just hits a nerve with me. So I don't care if you don't like Steve, or if you think he is the Anti-Christ or whatever, and I don't care if you don't agree with what I have to say. But if you start making up sh*t about me then I'm gonna get pissed and shoot my mouth off right back at you.

    So I'm not going to cut my tongue out. I like xerobank better than any of the other services that I have tried. And I also appreciate and trust Steve's affiliations. I would donate and support some of their projects if I could afford it. They (xerobank) have the best service available, that I know of, and they are the only one that I know of that has a direct relationship with well known human rights activists. That carries a lot of weight with me.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX3RM87OXlc

    http://www.hacktivismo.com/news/

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...GUXSauqGKKy2gL5v4i9DQ&q="steve topletz"&hl=en

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3LcIHpGM50
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2008
  3. zikarus

    zikarus Registered Member

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    @Hillsboro
    Good idea - why haven't you already done this by yourself?

    @caspian
    The Hacktivismo contact was Arrakis, who was the creator of Torpark and now calls himself Steve from Texas who is the one being with Xerobank now and came up here quite often before their forum was opened...
     
  4. caspian

    caspian Registered Member

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    This reminds me of a blog I found while looking up some info about Torrentfreedom. There were some guys there bashing them hard. I was taking up for them because I think they have a pretty cool service and I thought these guys were being really unfair. But anyway, these guys were accusing the owner of torrentfreedom of being into beastiality and a bunch of stuff.*puppy* They even got pretty explicit about their allegations and claimed to have proof.:argh: They posted that stuff over and over. It was far worse than this is though. It was bizarre.
     
  5. caspian

    caspian Registered Member

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    Yeah I know Arrakis is Steve. I use to read the Torpark forum. That was my first introduction to privacy software....except for Iphantom. I did have an Iphantom already.
     
  6. Genady Prishnikov

    Genady Prishnikov Registered Member

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    Just like the 2008 elections in the USA.....

    When you can't reasonably explain a charge against you - attack and smear the messenger!
     
  7. Hillsboro

    Hillsboro Registered Member

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    Who said I haven't? Emails are private. I suggested you go to the source for your own information and see that he had to say.
     
  8. Hillsboro

    Hillsboro Registered Member

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    How and where people spend there money and who they associate with is their business.

    My intent was to substantiate what Oldymin alluded to.

    I don't trust a person who paints himself to be something he is not. I made a reference to that directed at Steve. I am sure he picked up on it and it is up to him to respond or not. He was the one who made a deal of being a guess speaker at a supposed UN conference in August of this year. The conference he was referring to took place in Kuala Lumpur. I know I was there. Steve never came back at me on that. I wonder why. I never said Steve was stupid or did not know what he is talking about in some areas of security. With that said the whole thing about being a champion for privacy is a canard. The privacy offered by any subscription VPN service is an illusion at best. I have wrote about this before too.

    More to the point all he does is bad mouth every other service around except Cryptohippie. The domain are registered to the same own. End of story it is that simple. I mean these guys where not even smart enough to set up separate entities for the domain registration. That is the work of rank armatures when is come to security. A mailing address in that forwarded from Argentina. No city or postal code. Any one who is buying that I have a deal on a bridge in Brooklyn they will just love.

    It is all there for you to see, accept it or not. As I said in the beginning, how you or anyone else spends their money is their business, and if you and others think what Steve is offering is the best around, that is also your concern because at the end of the day if anyone using these services for privacy purposes and gets hauled up by the short hairs when they find out it was not so private after all, they can look back and realize they got exactly what they paid for from people they put their trust in.

    Have a good one...
     
  9. SteveTX

    SteveTX Registered Member

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    Hillsboro,

    If I might point out, you may want to ask me personally if you have such a question, but I'll entertain your query publicly since you seem to have been so upset by the conference schedule. As a favor to a satellite ICT organization I agreed to present. The group that was to have the conference slot, for which I was keynote, was delayed, as happens frequently in united nations proceedings.

    I am entertained that you are so captivated by me that my speaking calendar is being scrutinized. :cool: If I change my grocery list, shall I let you know? Don't lose heart, we'll probably still have the ICT meeting, but it's up to the satellite org and NEPAD Council.

    Steve
     
  10. goldenone

    goldenone Registered Member

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    A couple of users on this forum have summoned me (via e-mail)and requested I comment on what is going on here.

    @ Everyone
    So first, a brief introduction of me. I'm Kyle. I work on JanusVM. I work on XeroBank products. I work on Tor. I do lots of security research in regards to privacy and anonymity.
    In my years of work on these type of projects, I've come across four different types of people.
    1)Professional security and privacy researchers/developers.
    2)Users that are un-sure about what is what and just want something that works.
    3)Crazed/scared fanatics that do not trust anyone else work.
    4)Educational students that are in school doing research on privacy and anonymity.

    @ oldymin
    I rebuilt XB Machine from the first version of it's release to the current version of it's release. XB Machine is not the same as The Portable Virtual Privacy Machine from MetroPipe. I know this because I didn't work on the MetroPipe virtual machine. Maybe simular in concept, but not the same nor built by the same people. Plus, metropipe's VM is smaller than ours.

    Have you ever run your own small business? Well, those who have understand the some pretty basic concepts. Said business (Xerobank) needs to have servers all over the world, therefore we “lease” servers from different companies around the world. Same goes for this very forum. It's on a server somewhere that someone is paying for as a service from a hosting provider. Does that mean that WilderSecurity Forums is a part of the hosting provider, absolutely not. Same goes for Xerobank dude, we are customers as well as service providers. So if Xerobank leased service from Metropipe in the past, that's doesn't mean they are one in the same. Same goes for Xerobank and Cryptohippie.

    So oldymin, which one of the four types of people listed above, which are you?

    @ oldymin again
    So you love your Tor do you? Good for you. You love your open source do you? Open source is great. So why don't you head on over to http://www.janusvm.com/tor_vm/ and quit your bitching. There is your Open source Tor virtual machine. Blessed by Roger D himself. It's not 100% ready for public release, but I figured it's close enough and it should make you and all the other critics happy. If not, then build something useful yourself.

    @ Everyone
    So why would I work for Xerobank? First, it's fun working on the cutting edge of privacy, security, and anonymity projects and products. Second, IT'S MONEY IN MY POCKET. How do you think I pay my bills? Do you think I have this amazing, magical tree in my back yard that grows money on it? As nice as that would be, it's obviously not the case. Working on FREE and OPEN SOURCE software DOES NOT PAY THE BILLS! Most people that work on Open Source projects have a real job too. There was a period that I didn't work, about 13 months, and I was very happy working on cool, cutting edge technology. People loved (or hated) the results of that work. What wasn't cool was when I ran out of money, became late with all my bills, almost lost my home and my car. Steve stepped up, PAID ME IN ADVANCE (which most employers would never even consider) and appreciates my knowledge and creativity.

    So for anyone that wants to slander either Steve or Xerobank, either bring proof that you paid for a service and got a lemon, or shut the hell up. As for attacking Xerobank's products or services, I do that quite regularly to make sure that we do not leave our customers exposed. Ask your self this, "What have I done to help others?" There is no better feeling than finding a new exploit, creating a solution for the exploit, and protecting people from it. I enjoy my work, I enjoy Xerobank, I enjoy Tor, I enjoy Tor VM/JanusVM, and I enjoy protecting all of you from people that wish to invade your privacy.

    Now if you'll excuse me, I'd like to get back to work and not be dragged into forums to settle long disputes. If anyone reply's to this, do NOT expect me to reply back, I have work to do.


    - Kyle
    kyle.kwilliams [at] gmail [dot] com
     
  11. SteveTX

    SteveTX Registered Member

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    atom.jpg

    Wow, Kyle. Heh, you make me look like the smooth talker.
     
  12. axle00

    axle00 Registered Member

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    Thanks for the post Kyle.

    I'm a Xerobank customer and have been following this thread. Although I have no reason to not trust Xerobank or Steve, your post made me feel a bit better.
     
  13. Hillsboro

    Hillsboro Registered Member

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    It was something you posted on the Xerobank website and I called you out on it because you were using to to inflate your position much as these clowns who go to veterans gatherings and brag how they were in special ops until someone who was there calls them on their BS and outs them. It was nothing more than that Steve. Same reason for my posting the domain registration for all three services. So anyone reading it could decide for themselves. Same for my posting the phony contact information from Cryptohippie. I never made anything up. I took what was there and used it to refute the contentions being made by you. Anyone with an interest could follow the thread and come to their own conclusions.

    In the end I put the truth out there and you didn't counter it and enough people have read it, and as I said earlier, they will decide based on what is here. If they are cautious they will verify it through impartial means. It is why I said what I did about Go Daddy. Go Daddy will give a certificate to anyone with the money. I just pointed people in another direction.

    As far as you grocery list comments. You are such an armature Steve. Is that the best you can come up with as a retort to me? It is called goon baiting. You continue to make my point regarding your arrogance and how you look down on people who question you. You don't give answers, you attack. I am not a threat to you, neither are any of your other detractors here. You are your own worst enemy as far as marketing. No one respects a representative on one company who can do nothing better than bad mouth all the competition and refuses to give direct answers to direct questions. Anyone with a grain of common sense is going to head for the door.

    In the end the people who participated in this thread are not important and that includes me. What is important is all the people who will read it and will judge me and you and the rest of us by our words and how we either backed them up or didn't. Most people are smart enough to connect the dots. I think that was proven in your recent presidential elections there. They were tired of all the BS and decide where the truth was.

    Good luck to you, Steve
     
  14. SteveTX

    SteveTX Registered Member

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    I know. I'm just here to help and answer questions if I can. I can't stop the humorously false accusations, but I can debunk them with truth. > 42% of all your posts are regarding xerobank, so I am flattered.
     
  15. Hillsboro

    Hillsboro Registered Member

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    Flattered, Oh spare me, please. I am no one of any consequence. Besides I get nose bleeds in lofty places.

    Say what you want about me I have no control over that. But I never accused you falsely of anything. Every thing I said was based on what I posted here and not thing I was pulling out of thin air. I have never put forth any conspiracy theories toward you and you know that.

    I don't understand why you continue to bad mouth other services. No other commercial commercial VPN service have a presence here. I don't understand why you do, but that is your business. All I do know is you are evasive and even your allies tend to shot you in the foot more than they help you. Kyle, for instance told everyone here to shut up unless they were subscribers to Xerobank. This is a public forum and you say things either by intent or not that draws heat to you and polarizes people. But that is OK because it is a public forum Yet he has the gaul to tell anyone other than subscribers to shut up and not question. Certainly if it was a forum at Xerobank there would be a right to censure.

    And there you were tossing hi fives to him with the nuke photo. Come on Steve can't you step back and look at that objectively and how anyone lurking and reading this thread is going to take that? It was pretty straight forward in regards to the rest of us being silent. Yet to my knowledge, I have not seen anyone here tell you to P*ss off or to shut up and go back to Xerobank. No one to my knowledge has tried to silence you. You have every right to say what you want as long as you keep the punches above the belt and so do the rest of us.

    If you reply to this, I won't be able to duke it out with you as I will be gone to other places to spread hate and discontent. So you can breathe easy for awhile and you will have one less person to do battle with on, "Wilders' Fields."
     
  16. Genady Prishnikov

    Genady Prishnikov Registered Member

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    Steve and goldenone - what a pair!!!!!

    Kyle, before you started working with XB and getting a paycheck from them, you paid a visit to Wilders. In fact, it was June 5th, 2007. You posted in a long thread of mine regarding my concern about Xerobank. Your post was 4 words long: "I wouldn't trust them." It's right here for all to read:
    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=1019580&postcount=18

    You also misrepresented the JAP backdoor episode for your own benefit by posting a misleading statement here:
    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=1019585&postcount=7

    You posted pretending to be merely a JanusVM user (not the author) here:
    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=1309521&postcount=2

    On the same day, within one minute of each other, you posted a pro-JanusVM message and posted the "I wouldn't trust them," comment about Xerobank.

    Yet, we're supposed to trust you NOW, Kyle? You and Steve make good partners, I'll say that. Reading your post above, it's quite clear you have an ego to match Steve's as well. Match made in heaven!
     
  17. PirateLife

    PirateLife Registered Member

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    I must say after following this thread, this response is not very mature. As someone who advertises his services all over this forums I would expect someone to act more mature than this.

    No I am not friends or a second account of anyone who is bashing Xerobank, just a lurker until this post.
     
  18. geazer40

    geazer40 Registered Member

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    this post in it self as just shown any newby like me to stay well clear of xerobank
     
  19. JokersWild

    JokersWild Registered Member

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    Mr. Prishnikov;

    I must say I am outraged by your slanderous attacks against Mr. Kyle Williams. Outraged.

    They are nothing short of vicious. They are really uncalled for.

    Kyle is a major security researcher with impeccable credentials. People with any degree of familiarity with Tor, know Kyle's reputation.

    Kyle has been a major, respected long-standing, formal contributor to the Tor Project.

    I certainly don't see your name appearing anywhere on the Tor Project as a board member of project volunteer. Kyle has offered his work at Defcon on several occasions.

    JanusVM, which Kyle wrote with Martin Peck was, and is, a watershed contribution to Tor.

    Kyle Williams has always been on the forefront, the cutting edge of advancing anonymity technology.

    He's a contributor. An anonymity warrior.

    You have contributed nothing but venom, rage and anger.

    Reading your posts from the last year your tone has increasingly become worse and worse.

    Kyle's reputation needs no defense. None.

    I have no idea what Xerobank is up to, and frankly I don't give a damn as I'm not a subscriber. I'll leave that to the "experts" to wrangle.

    But when you attack Kyle, that is entirely another matter.

    You're really obsessed with Xerobank. Seems to extend way beyond mere truth-seeking. But that's your business.

    Tell you what, Sir, in a dogfight, I'd stake my safety on Kyle's known body of work than yours any day of the damn week.

    Any day.
     
  20. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

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    Hello,

    Being a contributor does not make anyone holy. So for that matter, if Linus started going around naked - or something - that would be ok? No.

    Software contribution is one matter; credibility, integrity and courtesy another. You can be a great developer and a vile person - and vice versa. Or both. Or neither.

    But no one is beyond reproach or criticism.

    You can look at anonymity warriors as people who help terrorists and pedos do their stuff more efficiently? Have you thought about that? Now, I'm NOT saying this is the case, but everything is a double-edged sword. And nothing is absolute or sacred in the computer world.

    Jokes, do have any idea what Genady does? Maybe he's a doctor and saves lives every day? Can you compare lives with lines of code?

    So, take things into perspective, one. Two, go carefully through the information posted here and decide for yourself who to trust, no need for huge public fanfare.

    Mrk
     
  21. BlueZannetti

    BlueZannetti Registered Member

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    As usual, a modicum of reason from Mrk.... Those are important words that I'd hope people take to heart.

    As for the thread content, unfortunately we have a decided mix of isolated context-free factoids and conjecture of motivation. Even when I'm sitting across the table from someone having a live discussion, I find it dangerous to try to step into someone else's mind and assign motive to statements and/or actions. For example, in the above exchange, it is noted that
    My own read is quite different - the poster is directing someone to use the official contact point. No more, no less. No misrepresentations were explicit or even implied. The type of unsupported extrapolation made above simply should not be done.

    Furthermore, as time passes the situation can change. Dredging up old quotes may or may not be germane to the present discussion. Views evolve as new information becomes available, and that may include new information based on one's employment situation in which a person becomes privy to nominally internal confidential information.

    As for the thread topic...., let's focus on real facts, understand the difference between fact and conjecture, leave assignation of motive by the wayside, and tone down the general level of invective.

    Blue
     
  22. AnonG

    AnonG Registered Member

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    This thread is a prime example of FUD.

    It started out with Metropipe being called a scam. As far as my knowledge goes they
    provide working tunnels but the support sucks. That hardly qualifies as a scam. Sure
    you can find linked all over "Metropipe SCAM" threads when searching. When
    reading those links it is painfully obvious that it is the same guy parroting.

    Xerobank and Cryptohippie are the same!!! Scam!!! Oh dear!!! Same hosting provider
    and that's all. Would it make any business sense to start 2 almost identical services
    within a year? XB started in 2007 and CH couple of months ago with their US
    reseller. Both are quite pricey 275/380$ and seem to cater to the same section of the
    market = upscale VPN services. Why would a single owner set them up competing
    against each other over a fairly small corner spot of a specialist field?

    CONSPIRACY that's why!!!

    Has there been real evidence that MP ripped off someone? I haven't seen
    anything so far. Personally I think some competitor of all the services mentioned in
    the thread is spreading this thick fud and unfortunately succeeding to some extent.

    Oh man, it is so hard to find solid and credible facts about paid proxies
    that threads like these make me want to give the search entirely, dust off my
    Windows OS disk and sign up for Anonymizer. At least I would know what I'm
    getting into.... :(
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2008
  23. JokersWild

    JokersWild Registered Member

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    The essence of this thread seems essentially this:

    Metropipe=Fraud-Metropipe=Xerobank=Cryptohippe= Fraud.
    There's a whole lot more, but that is a fairly succinct summary.

    But in order to unravel this, perhaps we could start at the beginning.
    And that was oldymin's original post.

    First of all, I feel for this man. I feel empathy for anyone defrauded by an unscrupulous business or been a victim of identity theft or credit card fraud. It is a damning, hellish thing to go through. Many of us have, I'm sure.

    But we're looking for some enlightenment here. As such, oldymin, if you're willing, more details might be very helpful here, so others can avoid this tragedy. If it happened with Metropipe, surely it could happen with other professional privacy services if one is not careful.

    oldymin may I quote you here?

    ""The reason i mention this is because i got scammed by metropipe for a large amount of money. I worked for a company which thought their services would protect the employees when travelling. But we were deadwrong. Lost a 4 figure amount to that scam. I advise people to google about metropipe and their new outlet xerobank / cryptohippie."

    Your post kind of zips through a fairly horrific event rather quickly and is scant on any details. Understandable perhaps as I'm sure this is painful. But you offer little or no specificity in order to help us out.

    I have read, and reread your post dozens of times.

    I had a million questions.

    1) With Metropipe's notably bad reputation why did you choose them?
    2) You contracted for a service. Are you able to be more specific about which service you contracted and technically why the solution failed?
    3) You were "deadwrong." How so? Can you offer further details?
    4) For that kind of money you spent, one would expect you had ready access to Metropipe support. Exactly what was their response or responses? Or was there simply no response at all?
    5) Without compromising your identity how did you pay them?
    With a credit card you would have availed the dispute resolution process. If you effected payment through an international wire transfer, EFT or bank transfer did you work with the bank's security dept? Were they not able to help? Was an investigation initiated?
    6) What attempts did you make to recover your money?
    7) Did you file a complaint with law enforcement and what is the status of that investigation? I am certain you simply did not walk away from the transaction.
    :cool: How long did this process take or is it still evolving?
    9) You say "i got scammed....I worked for a company .." Were these personal funds or company funds? It may be tangential but things get a little confusing here.

    oldymin I'm sorry about what happened to you.

    But could you provide a more detailed explanation as to what exactly what happened?
     
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