Metropipe = Xerobank = Cryptohippie

Discussion in 'privacy technology' started by oldymin, Oct 31, 2008.

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  1. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

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    Hello,

    I was using the defense/attack term just for the sake of it, call it camp A vs camp B if you wish. I understand why the term sounded a little harsh.

    As to the shades of gray, I think it's up to the moderators / admins of this website to decide whether they want to allow something on their site.

    As to those who consider buying software, this kind of thread is all they need to decide what they want, if and how.

    Mrk
     
  2. Hillsboro

    Hillsboro Registered Member

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    I apologize for making what I said sound as if it were directed at you. I really meant in general to anyone who may think I was being unfair to Steve or others who come rushing to the defense of that is clearly a shell operation for Roque Holdings and these operations are one in the same as had been alluded to by others before and Oldymin most recently. The only thing I did beyond what other have (that I am aware of) is post the website IP and domain registrations to show they are one-in-the-same. In other words follow the money and see where is goes.

    As far as Wilders, allowing or not allowing Xerobank to make posts here. That is their business. I am sure there are admins here who are a lot smarter than I am and are aware of how it all connects back to a holding company in Germany. Anyone going to the Cryptohippie web page in Panama will see it is a shell. The address in Panama city is phony. The phone number is phony. Yes they say it is a relay. But relays don't work like that. They tried to make the number look like an overseas number but it was clear it wasn't. The country code, 20, is for Egypt. Panama's code is 507. But if you remove all the dashes and run it as a usa phone number it all falls into place

    Again I am sorry you took what I said as being directed at you. I should have been more clear.
     
  3. Hillsboro

    Hillsboro Registered Member

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    The way I did it was to run a sniffer as I connected to their respective websites. Then ran a trace on the hops, then pulled who the IPs were registered to. It was that easy. It is sort of like running a line trap on a phone. Caller ID is easy to fool and spoof. But a line trap is hard to get around because it traps and hold the connection so you can look at where it came from. It will take you back to the actual CO the call originated from and hence the real identity and location of the caller. There are ways to circumvent a line trap but then you are talking about agencies with 3 letter ID's and the cooperation of others.

    These guys, operated on the premise that most people will not question or look too deeply and when they attacked the naysayers they hoped that group intimidation would work to silence their critics. They play on emotions and misdirection to avoid facts, and that is what they hide behind.

    I hope Steve, does come back with some of his lame excuses and tries to engage be on this so we can put some more facts out on the table here for all to see. Steve may be an intelligent person and a hacker of some note. He has, however, one serious flaw. He seems to think he is more clever than those around him. A basic contempt for the intelligence of others and that we are all too dumb to see through it. I already posted the reasons for why I did what I did. I have no illusions that anything I said here will lead to the demise of Roque Holdings (BTW replace the "q" with a "g" and you get Rogue Holdings. Very Apro pos, Yes?). They will just wait for this to blow over and keep right on with business as usual.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2008
  4. traxx75

    traxx75 Registered Member

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    A much simpler method is to use a tool called Win32Whois :)

    I have found this tool _extremely_ useful over the years due to its somewhat "smart searching". If given a domain name, it will first perform a DNS lookup to get the IP before querying the appropriate registrars for information on both. It will continue querying referrals until it gets the information required.

    This should be easier than the method used above, I'd say, unless there's some information Hillsboro is withholding that Win32Whois doesn't see.

    In regards to the information provided, I'm always a bit wary of comparing details of web hosting as a way of proving identity since it's possible that one company is simply using the other for their hosting services. If there was evidence that their underlying infrastructure was identical, then I would be more likely to believe they were one and the same.

    As an example, a while back I found that privacy.li and trilightzone.org both claimed to produce SSH Tunneling software known as "The Tube". Despite this, I still didn't really feel it was enough "proof" they were the same organisation at the time. Another example, is torrentfreedom.com and goldens.com being hosted from the exact same IP. Technically they could just be on shared hosting, although I believe a fair bit of digging went into that one and it may have been proven to be the same guy running them [along with trueonlinesecurity.com].

    I guess it all depends on what is "enough evidence" for you to stop considering using a service. Being hosted by the same company, or using the same software, may be enough for some to stop considering a service provider, but not for others.
     
  5. Genady Prishnikov

    Genady Prishnikov Registered Member

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    Traxx....What are the odds of Metropipe, Xerobank and Cryptohippie all using the same web host? Really? And, remember, "Roque Holdings" is identified on Cryptohippie's "About Us" page as having merged with Cryptohippie - so "Roque Holdings" is more than just a web host. But maybe you're talking about Meshmx.com - a huge coincidence for such a tiny outfit. Remember, there are two connections here - not just one: Roque Holdings and Meshmx.

    What does this all tell us?

    1. That Steve's saying he "really doesn't know" who owns Xerobank is not true.

    2. Steve saying there is no ownership links to Metropipe - is not true. (And how would he know anyway if #1 were true?)

    3. Steve's odd pushing of Cryptohippie in another thread now makes since.

    4. The one I take personally: His character assassination of me when it was he who was not being upfront here at Wilders.
     
  6. SteveTX

    SteveTX Registered Member

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    Okay, so let me get this right. Because some servers have the same whois registrant data or AS for the IP block, they are the same or linked or ... ? :rolleyes: As you dreaded earlier, here comes the simple explanation.

    Some of you who register for domains may be familiar with whois privacy services. This happens when you do a whois on an IP, and it isn't the same company operating the servers, or the same business, a different company that is responsible for the registration.

    Many major registration and server management companies offer this. For example, idotz, 1&1, godaddy, etc. all have this. So if you whois'd 100,000 godaddy domains that have whois privacy, they come back with the same whois registrant data for some company.

    You can see that here: GoDaddy Private Registration

    Does that mean they are linked? Yes. They have the same company doing their whois privacy on that server! However, I think your whois data isn't updated. I had heard that MP wasn't using RHC anymore, but that could be a domain controller issue, no telling. I'm unsure of which xb servers have RHC for their whois, it may just be the www server because we work with them for server bulletproofing. Why? That's easy. We get 20 hacking attacks on our servers every minute. That is 51,840,000 hacking attempts per month. Guess how many succeed? I'll give you a hint: XeroBank - Bank, X = Z.

    Remember, when the choice is between a simple explanation or a vast conspiracy, occams razor suggests to choose the simple explanation.

    If you need some better digital private investigators, I can make some recommendations. They cost a fortune, but they do really good work. :p
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2008
  7. fuzzylogic

    fuzzylogic Registered Member

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    well its finally good to see some hard evidence; all to often these arugments will come through with pointless claims but hard evidence of whois information pointing to 'Roque Holdings' is very interesting. This actually points to something for more scarier; the mystery of whom owned xerobank; is something Steve never once said he know the owners of xerobank and never once said it mattered... now they appear on the whois information.

    http://whois.domaintools.com/xerobank.com
    http://whois.domaintools.com/metropipe.net
    http://whois.domaintools.com/cryptohippie.com
    http://whois.domaintools.com/213.239.234.50
    http://whois.domaintools.com/88.198.74.14
    All have the same host.

    Its pretty hard to suggest the the major players in anonymizing networks have all the same host, that just doesn't make sense. This will be interesting explanation and hopefully the final nail in the coffin.

    For those looking to jump boat, have a look at perfect-privacy.com, JAP (premium services), Ironkey TOR network for commerical services or look at JAP/TOR for free services.

    Final note, a apology for oldymin, Its hard to see whom is just screaming wolf and who is the wolf if this game and i see alot of these arugments breakdown into senseless paranoia rather than the good argument that this has turned out to be. If your still larking around, give us a post, you may well see a turning point. :)
     
  8. SteveTX

    SteveTX Registered Member

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    fuzzy, look above your post before you congratulate yourself. i think you missed it. :argh:
     
  9. fuzzylogic

    fuzzylogic Registered Member

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    but this isn't anything to do with whois privacy, all the details are there otherwise we'd all see Domains By Proxy. It just makes it really hard to believe that all the major players decided that 'hey, lets all be hosted at Roque Holdings', much to a host that doesn't have a working website (try going to meshmx.com) and having whois information saying that metropipe/crytohippie are apart of their network. This is the exact same argument you used when you first started with the SSH tunnel and people found you were working with metropipe, and you magically tried to to distance yourself from them only to come back and say, oh yes some of their administrators did help us out.

    noone is trying to conspire against anyone here but when some information comes to light, some would like a straight answer.

    edit; yeah i reliese that now, i posted that before we had a flood of new posts.
     
  10. SteveTX

    SteveTX Registered Member

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    I spoke with a guy at RHC a few minutes ago. He confirmed that metropipe switched away from RHC half a year ago, but that the datacenter never updated their block information they used when MP registered. All the servers are at Hetzner Datacenter, so that is what is really in common. But everyone knows that hetzner is awesome for hosting anonymity stuff. Infact, many of the most popular Tor servers are hosted at hetzner, of which half of the entire tor network is in germany (double plus conspiracy!!). I think ours is at the RZ6 building, I don't know if CH is in the same building but it's possible because they are a few class Cs away. However, MP is a full class A IP address away, which is like being in a whole other galaxy.
     
  11. Genady Prishnikov

    Genady Prishnikov Registered Member

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    Oh...God....please. You think the world is that small? Do you really think we're that stupid?

    Again, here's the Google search for "Roque Holdings" (who Steve "just got off the phone with") http://www.google.com/search?q="roque holdings"

    THAT'S how small they are. This thread is the first thing that comes up! Then the cryptohippie "merger" and - nothing else! Until, of course, you dig into the databases and find this tiny outfit is associated with Metropipe, Xerobank and Cryptohippie. It's an insult to our intelligence, Steve, to expect us to buy your explanation. Unbelievable.

    This one is as smoky of a gun as one can get. If it were evidence in a trial, the jury wouldn't buy your ridiculous attempt at an explanation. Roque? Meshmx? Throw Hetzner in there and --- no, Steve, the Occam's Razor theory of simplicity and logic would suggest the simplest answer is, not your explanation - but the simple conclusion that they're all the same outfit.

    Long ago I heard the saying that best describes your attempts - going on years now - to explain away every connection.....
    If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with B**lsh&##.
     
  12. SteveTX

    SteveTX Registered Member

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    You googled a private firm that specializes in anonymity and you didn't find them? Color me surprised.

    Roque, I think, operated under some brand prior which specialized in bulletproof server design for private clients. This was over 5 years ago, and there was one spinoff prior when one of their primaries left to form RHC. Big boys in the private anonymity community know them very well. You can, however find them in some private communities like Distributed City, I think, which was (is?) hosted by MP. Adem, the guy who ran privacy.li was kicked out of DC and furiously published DC's member list. Most of the privacy movers and shakers are on that list, so it's a primer for you. Then in late 07, Cryptohippie bought DiClave (anonymous vpn service), MeshMX (a network management corp), and partnered with RHC.

    History lesson over.
     
  13. Genady Prishnikov

    Genady Prishnikov Registered Member

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    Steve, Thanks for the lesson. Revisionist history with "easy explanations" and smears sounds an awful lot like a campaign that just got their butt beat on November 4th.

    And Xerobank fits in where in your history lesson?

    The excuse that Roque Holdings is something big in the "anonymity business," and so good at what they do that they manage to not have any Google references is ridiculous. Please. You call me a conspiracy nut? I guess they were only good at staying out of the sight of search engines until it came to the connection between Metropipe, Xerobank and Cryptohippie? Steve, you are too much.

    I'm waiting for "Q" and Mr. Bond to appear and tell us the secrets of the "anonymity community." It would be just like Q and James Bond - fiction.
     
  14. Genady Prishnikov

    Genady Prishnikov Registered Member

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    One other thing...

    So, privacy.lie publishes the member list of DC - and you post a link to it here at Wilders? Brilliant! Oh....the group was using Yahoo Groups for their secret agent communications? Whatever.

    "The movers and shakers of privacy" are on that list, huh? That's funny. Truly.

    From the Merriam-Webster Dictionary:

    delusion (dĭ-lū'zhən)
    noun
    - The act or process of deluding.
    - The state of being deluded.
    - A false belief or opinion: labored under the delusion that success was at hand.
    - In Psychiatry: A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom of mental illness: delusions of persecution.

    Put away the dark sunglasses and secret decoder ring. The game is up.
     
  15. SteveTX

    SteveTX Registered Member

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    Genady, I've had nothing but infinite patience with you and your conflationary tactics. The last time when you were unable to maintain civil conversation, you were ignored, and you're rather close to returning to that status, so I urge you to calm down.

    You presented information, asked a question, and were given a sound answer. The answer fits everything I've stated. However, the answer didn't fit your theory, so you rejected it and elaborated your theory. While this isn't unexpected, it is somewhat illogical.

    The problem is you engage in inductive reasoning, assuming your conclusion and cherry-picking your data to support it. Inductive reasoning is a logical fallacy in an a-posteriori universe.

    The data you have overwhelmingly suggests entirely unique entities which have some overlapping connections. All natural systems have coincidences and patterns. You seem to seize at these coincidences, and imagine a darker world to connect them, rather than the apparent, and justifying your view by pointing to the existence of coincidences. Ironically, the most suspicious circumstance is a system that has no coincidental information.

    For example, many services use certain protocols like pptp and have a bad authentication method. Many services are 1-hop proxies. Many services have virtually the exact same offerings. None of the coincidences are meaningful, and incidentally, none of them apply to xerobank, cryptohippie, or metropipe yet that is our discussion topic. The coincidence you seized upon is Roque, which is as arbitrary as any other piece of data. In my personal opinion it has value: Roque represents a rare level of quality in the service they provide. Those who are very knowledgeable used them in the past. However, don't assign any more meaning to it than fishermen who coincidentally troll the same cove to catch the big fish. Why? The highest quality is scarce by definition, experts know where to go, and you don't go around telling everyone your best fishing hole. Perhaps in your lake, there are no fish, it's all monsters under the surface, of infinite variety, distributed equally along the lake.

    I've noticed when you are presented facts that don't fit your preconceived notions, you dismiss them rather consistently. You have an agenda of some sort, and that's fine. However, when you engage in such intellectual dishonesty, it's a waste of everyone's time. I've contacted you offlist so I can give you more information without disturbing others, but you fail to respond. We can conclude this is either because you are afraid that your identity will be exposed, you don't know how to reply to a private message, you aren't interested in gaining wisdom, or your actual agenda is to spread FUD.

    At this time, as a measure of good faith, I would like to release an internal xerobank document that will clear up some long standing wide-eyed speculation from you. The Abuse Report Process Flow discusses how and when we log, how we treat abuse complaints and how we deal with requests from law enforcement. I don't think you'll ever see anything like this from cryptohippie or metropipe.
     
  16. Genady Prishnikov

    Genady Prishnikov Registered Member

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    If even your critics don't suck up to you - you are offended. Steve, your social engineering on this board is quite good. But shifting the topic to me won't work. "Cherry picking?" Anybody who wants to read through all the threads concerning the "Xerobank Mystery" can come to no other conclusion than the evidence is overwhelming and hardly "cherry picking." The abuse policy you linked to won't fool many either. It's part of the social engineering and makes it look like a criticism of Cryptohippie and Metropipe when it is not.

    The issue is not me.
    It is Xerobank, Metropipe, Cryptohippie, Roque Holdings, Inc., Meshmx, etc.

    If somehow all the evidence is wrong and we are wrong, then Steve, again....who owns Xerobank?
     
  17. SteveTX

    SteveTX Registered Member

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    Genady, only you could take an olive branch and proclaim it to be hemlock. You're back on ignored status. Peace.
     
  18. Genady Prishnikov

    Genady Prishnikov Registered Member

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    Good job making bad old Genady the issue. Again.....

    The issue is not me. It is Xerobank, Metropipe, Cryptohippie, Roque Holdings, Inc., Meshmx, etc.

    If somehow all the evidence is wrong and we are wrong, then Steve, again....who owns Xerobank?
     
  19. Hillsboro

    Hillsboro Registered Member

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    First of all Gernady is not the issue nor is anyone else beyond Steve... The truth is out Steve and the problem is you and what you have said and your attacks on anyone who dared question the veracity of what you had to say about Xerobank and your intentions. You have been less than forthright and certainly not aboveboard in regards to xerobank. So now the truth is out.

    You point to GoDaddy (More misdirection on your part). The fact that Go Daddy did the domain registration means nothing. They provide the certificate. BTW, Go Daddy isn't exactly the epitome of registration services as they cater to much of the web sleaze and malware sites. If the people reading this want some interesting reading; do a search of Go Daddy and the type of web sites they cater to that would gag a maggot.

    Regardless, The IP's comeback to Roque Holdings for the three sites in question. End of story. It is that simple and all the rhetoric and spin doesn't change the facts. Why don't you quit while you are ahead Steve. You have become very transparent, and the more blather on and on and avoid answering the hard questions the more foolish you appear. Stop treating people like they are morons. What you say is meaningless. No one with any sense is buying what you are selling. You have no credibility left. Stop the con game. It is clear, by virtue of your behavior, you can not be, nor should you be trusted, nor should anyone associated with you be trusted. We are known by the company we keep.

    Oh BTW, how did the UN Conference go? You know the one that you said was at the UN in the end of August but really took place in May, in Kuala Lumpur? LOL.

    Again for the record:

    Xerobank.com website IP is 88.198.74.243

    The Block 88.198.80.240 - 88.198.80.247 of IP's is registered to Roque Holdins In Germany

    88.198.74.8 - 88.198.74.15

    CryptoHippie USA and the so called Panamania website IP is 88.198.74.14

    The Block 88.198.74.8 - 88.198.74.15 of IP's is registered to Roque Holdings In Germany

    Metropipe.net website IP is 213.239.234.48

    The Block 213.239.234.48 - 213.239.234.63 of IP's is registered to Roque Holdings In Germany

    There is a twist with Metropipe in that the contact person is listed in Coasta Rica. Cute Huh?

    OK boys and girls, for those of you interested, here is your homework assignment for the weekend. Lookup "Seism Technology S.A." Besure you spell it as it is listed and see where is leads you to and how it is all about misdirection to make something seem to be what it is not. Your reward will be a certificate in the recognition of Bovine Scattolgy.


    213.239.234.48 - 213.239.234.63
    netname: ROQUE-HOLDINGS-NET
    descr: Roque Holdings Inc
    country: DE
    admin-c: BSR5-RIPE
    tech-c: BSR5-RIPE
    status: ASSIGNED PA
    remarks: MeshMX.com Anonymizing Network
    mnt-by: HOS-GUN
    mnt-lower: HOS-GUN
    mnt-routes: HOS-GUN
    source: RIPE # Filtered

    person: Brianda Sanchez Rodriguez
    address: Seism Technology S.A
    address: La Uruca de el Banco Cuscatlan 3000
    address: San Jose, COSTA RICA
    phone: +4913122123419
    e-mail: support@metropipe.net
    nic-hdl: BSR5-RIPE
    remarks: Anonymizing networks, all abuse to abuse@metropipe.net
    mnt-by: HOS-GUN
    source: RIPE # Filtered
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2008
  20. Hillsboro

    Hillsboro Registered Member

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    Do you really expect to get a straight answer from Steve? I don't mean this as a put down toward you. It has become clear that Steve can not and will not give a straight answer and he and his handlers/minions are of the PT Barnum school of a sucker being born every minute. His giving evasive answers to legitmate questions is answer enough as far as his trustworthiness and that of Xerobank, et al.

    As far as an anonymity service goes, they are the last one anyone would want to consider based on his conduct. The fact that he persists in pushing a loosing position speaks to the fact that his ego gets in the way of his common sense. If he had been smart he would have simply gone away and not continued to muddy the waters for himself. All he has done is to serve to call attention to these issues to anyone doing a google search of Xerobank and Cryptohippie and Metropipe. He has taken a giant dump in his own rice bowl.

    Maybe it is as some have suggested and this is a sole operation run by Steve or he is the mastermind. I say this because if their was anyone further up the food chain in this operation they would have muzzled him because he is a loose canon as far as drawing unwanted attention and raising questions that they don't really want to answer and that has become clear by his reticence. Lot of words and no substance. It is clear he is intelligent, but seems to lack commonsense and that, at the end of the day, makes him a liability. Always take commonsense over smarts because all the smarts in the world is worthless without the commonsense to use those smarts properly. He needs to learn humility and not to think he is the smartest guy in the room.

    Try not to let him get to you. He is not worth it.
     
  21. caspian

    caspian Registered Member

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    If you don't like bullies then why are you defending one? Oldyman attacked me first. If you are going to start accusing me of being someone other then who I am, then screw you. I don't have to put up with your sh*t.

    As far as Xerobank being affiliated with Cryptohippie? If Steve says they are not, I do not have any reason to doubt him. But what if he were associated with them? Why should I care?
     
  22. Genady Prishnikov

    Genady Prishnikov Registered Member

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    Ummm....hello? No reason to doubt him? Have you not read this thread and the last 15 or so posts?

    Why does it matter? Because Steve has not been honest. He said no ties to Metropipe - not true (unless you believe the fantastical explanation from Steve); he has said he doesn't know who owns Xerobank - ? I don't know what more you could possibly be given to show that Steve Topletz has been not only less than honest - but actually lying about the whole operation.

    Steve was right: Occam's Razor. The simple answer: Metropipe>Xerobank>Cryptohippie = one and the same.

    The cover-up has been far worse than the crime. But to run from the old Metropipe reputation, they/he (whoever) felt he had to not be honest and lie. I agree with a post above that says he should have kept quiet as opposed to digging deeper holes.
     
  23. zikarus

    zikarus Registered Member

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    Reading this thread including all the ot personal stuff being boiled here I am still wondering and keep asking myself two questions:

    1. What exactly was the problem with Metropipe (in brief)?
    2. What about the other members of the Xerobank team? Kyle Williams e.g. is the founder of the JanusVM project which has quite a good reputation as far as I know. Why should he danger his reputation joining a foul player?
     
  24. SteveTX

    SteveTX Registered Member

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    Zikarus,

    You won't actually get any real proof of anything from them, as there isn't any to be had. These characters are probably the same online personality(s) from usenet and the now defamed privacy.li. You'll notice the striking similarity in attack style, claims, and lack of proof. The MO is to create a bunch of seemingly different users over time, then increasingly use them in "me too" attacks to create a false cacophony of consensus, rabidly needing to have the last word, while avoiding rational discussion at all costs.

    I notice that when metropipe was being attacked in the past, it always came down to 1) a false claim, 2) someone asking for proof, and 3) the attackers disappear or provide some unrelated information, and finally 4) restart the attack in a new thread and when asked for proof point to the old thread / vague posts. These disinformation techniques rely on hit-and-run smear tactics, ad hominem attacks, demanding victims to prove a negative, or conflating the refusal to disclose proprietary information as dishonesty. It's a string of yarn that ultimately leads nowhere.

    Metropipe, as I am aware, had actually no real issues except support responsiveness, which is the crux of any online operation IMHO. There were no scams metropipe was involved in.

    The most humorous thing about this MP == CH claim is that if you knew the interpersonal stories of the folks who run MP and CH, you would know they refuse to do business with each other.

    Steve
     
  25. Hillsboro

    Hillsboro Registered Member

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    Fine take Steve at his word even though the facts contradict Steve's and your contention.. Your ignoring the facts and truth does not change the reality no matter how hard you may wish it to. You put your foot in it. If you don't like the smell, then be careful were you walk and the company you keep.

    Oldymin pointed out a truth regarding the relationship between Metropipe, Cryptohippie, Xerobank, et al. All I did was substantiate what he said with hard real facts so anyone could go look and see the connections for themselves and that the contact information, addresses and phone numbers on the Cryptohippie site was meant to deceive. Deception has only one purpose and that is to make something appear to be what in fact it is not.

    If you don't like my "sh*t which is the truth then the solution is simple. Prove what I posted here is not true. You have already said you don't care if there is a relationship between these services. If that is the case then why did you get all over Oldymin? He was telling the truth. How can the truth hurt you or anyone else unless you don't want the truth revealed. I stand by my bully statement. On one side Oldymin told the truth on the other side you and Steve and others tried to bury that truth with an attack on him. That act speaks volumes. Whether you like it or not is of no concern to me. I posted the facts so people can judge for themselves. Deal with it or prove me wrong with hard fact, not tangential arguments and hyperbole.
     
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