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i wuldnt call it adware exactly.

 

Me neither.Ok they bundle the Ask toolbar with CIS but it isn't the same as true adware where refusal isn't an option.

 

Me neither too...

How can it be adware?

1) You don't have to install it - It's on installation as to if a user installs it or not.
2) You can simply uninstall it if you don't want it anymore...
3) Don't cause pop ups...

Cheers,
Josh

 

True adware, not true adware, what is the difference ?

Adware is a s/w that tries to get money from you indirectly. Ask toolbar is a true adware and any s/w that is used to distribute adware is also adware. Let it be "not true" adware, let it be "more sneaky" adware, if you please

 

The difference is that true adware incorporates the adware component by embedding it within the software,with no option to avoid it,or even without the user's knowledge.On no account could CIS be classed like that,while the inclusion of Ask is debatable it's transparent (although the default opt-in should be changed).

 

Let us try Viki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adware

===
Advertising functions are integrated into or bundled with the software, which
is often designed to note what Internet sites the user visits and to present advertising pertinent to the types of goods or services featured there. Adware is usually seen by the developer as a way to recover development costs, and in some cases it may allow the software to be provided to the user free of charge or at a reduced price. The income derived from presenting advertisements to the user may allow or motivate the developer to continue to develop, maintain and upgrade the software product. Conversely, the advertisements may be seen by the user as interruptions or annoyances, or as distractions from the task at hand.

Some adware is also shareware, and so the word may be used as term of distinction to differentiate between types of shareware software. What differentiates adware from other shareware is that it is primarily advertising-supported. Users may also be given the option to pay for a "registered" or "licensed" copy to do away with the advertisements.

Adware can also download and install PUPs.
===

It seems your definition differs from viki. Viki says nothing about ability to uninstall, it only says "integrated or bundled with the software".

 

Think so.

 

The results look minced. One thing will never change OA, Outpost and Comodo as top3. Maybe once PCTools Firewall will scratch this top ranking.

 

I installed 'burnaware free' recently, and it prompted me for the ask toolbar.

Very easy to see if it's an additional download you can opt out of (which I did). In my opinion, if you're in a rush and install it without knowing or seeing the prompts, you might be the type of person who generally is in a rush when downloading anything from the net.

I know the definition of adware on wikipedia, but to me, it's a product that is doing something you're unaware of or have no knowledge of. I agree the ask toolbar is adware if you install it.

The product I mentioned (burnaware) has a paid version which doesn't include this 'adware toolbar' at any point of the installation, and the free version, I accept is doing this to offset any revenue lost with people only taking/downloading the free version.

I know analogies are frequently used on this forum. To me, this toolbar is like a someone coming up to rob me by saying, 'I'm going to rob you, but you can say no and I'll walk away'. I couldn't say I consider that a threat! Maybe I'm way off course.

The ask toolbar is like any website you visit where you see 'you have won, download me now', you read the page, make a decision not to click and install the software.

Maybe I'm missing something. But to prevent yourself from this 'adware', all you need is basic reading skills. Just check out www.raymond.cc , great site, but if you don't read the links you're clicking on, you might be taken straight to an adware install.

 

KIS2009 is slipping out of top 10 ?

 

My point is that the ad component in CIS is neither compulsory nor hidden,therefore to deem it as adware is,in the recognised sense wrong.It's in the same category as Ccleaner and an increasing number of other utilities,in including an optional toolbar.

I'm in no way supporting the likes of Ask,etc IMO they're all useless junkware,but the term adware conjours up the likes of realplayer where the ads are non optional and part of the licensing terms to use the software.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adware:

"Adware or advertising-supported software is any software package which automatically plays, displays, or downloads advertisements to a computer after the software is installed on it or while the application is being used. Some types of adware are also spyware and can be classified as privacy-invasive software."

 

I can bet, a good lawyer could prove this is advare and could prove just the opposite depending on how much you pay him and what you ask him to

The question is what to do with the smell ?

 

There's no need for drama. I agree it shouldn't have it, but it does.

So for now, if you can read, you'll be able to choose not to install it, and you get to keep using the product for free.

Just to clarify, even if you installed this 'toolbar' it can be uninstalled easily in add/remove programs. Also, this is the official statement on whether it contains spyware/adware: http://dl.uk.ask.com/toolbars/askbaruk/help.html#O.7

 

I honestly don't care for the toolbar, but just doing a google search, and the good ol wikipedia search, see below:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ask.com

And see what Sophos, king of false positives and flagging every program as spyware, says:

 

Regarding the Ask Toolbar I think Alex Eckelberry has stated some valid questions in his blog entry Here comes the Ask Toolbar again:

 

Does anyone know how the Ask toolbar installation business really works? Another thread here says that Norton gets $1 per actual installation (presume Comodo gets the same), but is pretty vague on details. Probably just good for the first installer with all the Ask toolbars floating around. Presume that Comodo needs to monitor the installations of Ask, continue to monitor to be sure it isn't removed within some time period, and report that data at some level to Ask to get paid. Haven't heard from Comodo (or anyone else) what level of reporting is required. Maybe I just missed it?
At Ask, there are advertiser fees and placement fees that are tied to things like the number of hits, number of verified users, ... that must go up when a lot of the toolbars get installed. Don't know if this requires any feedback between the online request information and the installers?
The lack of disclosure and lack of transparency are a bit of a concern, but in most cases you can opt out if concerned. I wouldn't install one, but other than arguing about the ethics and integrity of security companies working with advertising companies, is their any violation of privacy or other impact on the users? Other than that most like Google search better?

 

When i install Comodo, i use no automatic updates, no auto submission, no contact with Comodo at all and i have deleted the built-in Comodo rules. Still, periodically, i get pop up of Comodo wanting to connect outbound. I always block it, since i have thought the same (presumably, it must report if the toolbar was installed).

 

With rather large user bases and evolving products we are talking serious money here whether Norton, Comodo, or ... . $1 may be exaggerated even, but whatever the real amount, it is enough to get companies to take the offer even if they get a lot of flack from their users. Seems like somehow all the removal and reinstallation of toolbars and new versions must be tracked, so there must be a way to identify you uniquely. But nothing that necessarily needs to be disclosed to Ask. Otherwise you should just ask all your users to uninstall and reinstall the Ask toolbar every Monday and make the counter spin. Or maybe it is much simpler than that, but

 

Here is Kevin McAleavey's Analysis of the toolbar in Comodo:

***
Recently, questions have arisen with respect to the "Ask.com" toolbar which is offered along with COMODO's "Safe Surf" software, which is bundled with recent releases of the COMODO firewall. As a result of these questions, I was requested to provide an independent examination of these concerns as part of an internal review of the issues raised as an employee of COMODO. I can only offer that despite my employment by COMODO, it is important to note that my "independence" is contractual and therefore I'm putting my PERSONAL reputation "on the line" in this commentary. I speak for myself in what follows, without encumberances, directives or reservations.

Let's begin with information as to the basis for malware detection with respect to "search bars" and BHO's ("Browser Helper Objects") in general not only by BOClean, but by the standards of the rest of the "anti-malware community" in general. Some programs and "system add-ons" can be useful and non-malicious. Other search toolbars provided by Google, Yahoo and others are considered inert or "safe" because they go about their installation in specific, proper ways, and do not compromise privacy or security. And when their actions are discretionary and do not interfere with normal internet activities, then they are routinely judged inert and not covered.

In past years, such operations as "AskJeeves," "MyWay," "MySearch" and other holdings had a long history of adverse behavior not only in the way their software was designed, but also their "affiliate" programs. These improper policies resulted in "hijacking" of existing home pages or URL requests, installation of what is referred to as "additional crapware," false "click throughs" and "page hits" when the pages were never intended to be visited, as well as hiding of these mechanisms by other means preventing the user from correcting any of these changes. We've always referred to these as "rogue affiliates" and "drive-by installs." In short, clearly "Malware."

In addition, most of these "toolbars" were surreptitiously installed as part of a "drive-by download" with the toolbar provider taking few if any steps to control the behavior of their affiliates. All were well known as "rogue" and stopped by most anti-malware programs, including BOClean.

Since that time, IAC (the current owner of Ask.com) has changed their policies and practices and have since become "responsible parties." It's happened before with other programs. COMODO did extensive vetting of this toolbar supplier prior to accepting this "toolbar" as now have I. Regardless of their prior activities, they have "changed their ways" and have apparently found that the only way to be accepted is to follow the legitimate requirements of the " internet community."

BOClean, like most other anti-malware programs decides that a "toolbar" is malware if it meets one or more of the following suspicious behaviors, which are not listed in any particular priority:

1. Installed without the knowledge of the user.
2. Cannot be removed by either uninstall or control panel.
3. Reinstalls itself once it has been removed.
4. Changes system or browser settings without asking permission first.
5. Redirects page requests to other "sites."
6. "Spoofs" search sites or other "phishing-like" actions.
7. Removes other pages and replaces them with "affiliate" pages.
8. Transmits personal information or reports back to a third party without the permission of the user or some form of prior notification.
9. Downloads and/or installs other software without permission.
10. Hides itself or other components.
11. Results in noticeable deterioration of browser performance
12. Results in spam.

There are other "egregious" behaviors I've likely forgotten, but the above are the more serious ones. Any one or more of the above will result in BOClean and most other anti-malware "detecting" any such toolbars or BHO's as malware. However, there are "legitimate" and desireable "add-ons" which can be useful such as the "Google toolbar" or the "Yahoo toolbar" and numerous others which no one would classify as "malicious" or "suspicious" even if they are installed with other software installations.

I have personally performed a BOCLEAN analysis of the toolbar, subject to the ORIGINAL BOClean "standards" and have determined the following:

1. Notification is given to the user prior to completion of installation and the user has the option of not installing the software.

2. License agreement and privacy notification during installation is given.

3. User can readily decline the installation of the toolbar and other options because they are not hidden or placed beyond an "expert installation mode" and is clearly visible on a "main screen" during the installation.

[0.jpg]


4. The toolbar can be readily uninstalled using "Add/Remove programs" in the control panel and the uninstall is successful after a system reboot has occurred, leaving behind only an "Uninstall Ask Toolbar.dll" in the "Program Files" folder. This file is both visible in the folder, and can be successfully deleted:

[1.jpg]



5. In Internet Explorer, the toolbar can be successfully disabled if the following three settings in Internet Explorer are set to disabled. It does not perform a "zombie reload" if it hasn't been uninstalled if these settings are made in Internet Explorer:

[2.jpg]

Under Firefox, the toolbar can be disabled by unchecking it as follows:

[3.jpg]

Obviously if there is concern about this toolbar, then it should be uninstalled using the Add/Remove Programs option in Control Panel (as shown in item #4 above) which assures a complete removal. It will not recur once uninstalled.

6. Behavior analysis of the added toolbar indicates that it does not contain any personally-identifying information, does not create a unique ID within its programs, does not assert itself into any other interactions, and does not do anything unless you enter a search request and submit it to ask.com or click on a button which simply loads the URL into the browser as though it were a bookmark/favorite being clicked on. No other transactions were noted in traffic analysis. Therefore, even with the toolbar present on the browser, if it is not used, no interaction occurs. The individual files, configurations, registry data, and internet traffic were examined to arrive at this determination.

Conclusion: By BOClean's long-standing standards since 1997, the IAC/Ask toolbar included with COMODO's "Safe Surf" does not constitute malware and therefore does not qualify for detection.
---

(Please note that the screenshot images only appear for logged in members - guests will not see them)
***

Source. Take note of things in bold. This is not adware as Alex_s saids so, But we do have a few Comodo bashers here... So it's not surprising.

I think we can get a good long rest now over this 7-10 month old issue.

Cheers,
Josh

 

The last question was a bit different, and not particularly directed at Comodo (although they may have the easiest answer). Since the Norton thread said that they were paid per valid install, how does the client track and verify the number of valid installs so they can report that to Ask and get paid? What do they report to Ask as part of this? With all of the uninstalling and reinstalling going on this could be a bit of a chore, or it is probably something very simple. Maybe Kevin can answer this too, but it doesn't really have much to do with whether you consider Ask malware or not, just about what data is collected and reported by the client about the users to support the Toolbar count and Ask payments. Not anything the Toolbar might report, which Kevin covered. See Fuzzfas comment also. More interesting because of discussions that Norton may remove the opt out. Thanks; Ed.

 

Hi Fuzz.

If it still something you wish to confirm now, Could you send me a screen shot of the Alert and also the configuration Comodo is using, etc and I will get back to you with the relevant info even if I have to ask a Comodo dev...

Cheers,
Josh

 

Well, that will have to wait, till the next time i will reinstall Comodo. Basically, i use proactive security. I import rules, no autoupdate, no autosubmission, no antivirus, the rules that by default allow internet permission to Comodo firewall deleted, custom policy mode, on the highest alert.

I think i have once posted about it in the Comodo forum too. Happens everytime i install .439. I think once that i had searched, the IP was of Comodo. I think that when i had posted this in the bug forum, there was a comment that it is somehow related to the antivirus and can't be dealt with.

It would be very easier and more interesting, if you could ask the devs, how does Ask know, if someone installed or not the toolbar, so to pay Comodo. Does the firewall inform Comodo? Ask.com? Once? More times?

 

This thread has devolved into a toolbar debate

 

Maybe the mods can split the thread. Still curious about how the whole toolbar thing works in terms of reporting demographics to Ask with all the offerers though. Might be a short simple answer, but could also incite more comments.

 

True. I think the toolbar debate however is necessary. Otherwise there's a lot of product bashing based on 'hearsay' rather than fact, eg. 'my friend told me this install wipes your computer - so it'll wipe your system too'.

For the record, I still think 'toolbar' installations are more annoying than a security problem.