Macrium Reflect

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by Stigg, Nov 23, 2013.

  1. Peter 123

    Peter 123 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2009
    Posts:
    452
    Location:
    Austria
    This concept of "selective" updating sounds logical. But isn't there a certain risk that a later and "necessary" update might not work because a previous update (which I regarded as not relevant) is missing?

    Sometimes it will be clear. For example I think I could have skipped the latest update to version 7.2.4952 as it concerns exclusively the Image Guardian which I do not have installed. So obviously this update will play no role for future updates on my computer. But the situation will not always be so clear.

    (Of course this is an issue not only concerning Macrium but software updates in general.)
     
  2. Osaban

    Osaban Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Posts:
    5,378
    Location:
    Milan and Seoul
    Or diligent attention to detail, it really depends on the critical perspective. I've updated and performed my usual backup/restore test without any issues...
     
  3. jphughan

    jphughan Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2018
    Posts:
    761
    Location:
    US
    Reflect Updater can work in two different ways. If you're already running a sufficiently new release, it will download a "delta" update package, which contains only the changed portions of the changed files between your current release and the new release. I believe this patch method involves checking the hashes of the updated files after they've been updated, but I'm not 100% sure on that. If on the other hand you're not currently using a sufficiently new version, then Reflect Updater will download the full installer package and use that, in which case it won't matter what version you're currently running. But either way, the post-update end state would be the same. I don't think it would be possible to have "holes" in your updated state simply because you skipped over a few earlier releases. After all, not everyone is going to install every update on every system, and it wouldn't be acceptable for that reality to cause people to be left with a broken Reflect installation after they finally did update.
     
  4. Peter 123

    Peter 123 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2009
    Posts:
    452
    Location:
    Austria
    Thanks for the explanation, jphughan. :thumb:
     
  5. Spartan

    Spartan Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2016
    Posts:
    1,045
    Location:
    Dubai
    The problem for me personally is. I don't want to install it on my system. So every time there is an update, I have to install it (I have the Home Edition), then recreate the USB Rescue Disk, then uninstall it. Pain in the butt to do every couple of days. I liked how updates were much less on v6 where one could set it and forget it.
     
  6. Osaban

    Osaban Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Posts:
    5,378
    Location:
    Milan and Seoul
    Spartan let me put things how I see them into perspective, you don't have to update if you don't want to, and therefore keep your MR version static if it works for you. I don't see what the problem is. The latest update from MR was triggered because some customers were having problems with Image Guardian. Can you blame MR to clear a bug in their software because of some complaints? Any software nowadays is work in progress because things are changing so rapidly that there is no final stage for anything, 'set it and forget it' belongs to the XP era where changes were indeed sporadic...
     
  7. imdb

    imdb Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2011
    Posts:
    3,288
    rescue media doesn't need to be updated frequently. frequent updates are (mostly) meant for live/hot imaging.
     
  8. Spartan

    Spartan Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2016
    Posts:
    1,045
    Location:
    Dubai
    good point
    I see, I won't bother then maybe I'll do it every couple of months or so then
     
  9. Peter 123

    Peter 123 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2009
    Posts:
    452
    Location:
    Austria
    As I was also not sure how often I should update the rescue media, a short time ago I had made a note of various comments I found about this matter in another forum
    (source: https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/macrium-reflect-do-i-need-to-make-new-rescue-media/)

    Perhaps it is of interest for user users too:

    And of course it is always useful to take a look at the release notes on the Macrium website (http://updates.macrium.com/reflect/v7/latest_release_notes.asp) if they recommend such an update - as it happened e.g. for v.7.2.4732 in February:
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2020
  10. paulderdash

    paulderdash Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Posts:
    4,420
    Location:
    Under a bushel ...
    Thanks for the useful summation @Peter 123.
     
  11. Peter 123

    Peter 123 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2009
    Posts:
    452
    Location:
    Austria
    You're welcome, paulderdash.
     
  12. Osaban

    Osaban Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Posts:
    5,378
    Location:
    Milan and Seoul
    New update to version 7.2.4971
    Everything worked fine performing backup/restore and bootable rescue media.
    upload_2020-6-16_21-13-58.png
     
  13. jphughan

    jphughan Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2018
    Posts:
    761
    Location:
    US
    ^ Those release notes were subsequently updated to include a fix for viBoot. The fix itself was present in 7.2.4971 from the beginning; it was just inadvertently omitted from the release notes initially.
     
  14. MPSAN

    MPSAN Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Posts:
    956
    Looking for good Backup DRIVE...
    You guys know a lot about this and I wonder if there is a BEST drive for me to consider.
    I have Windows 10 Pro 64 Bit 1909 and Reflect 7.2....

    I have 2 systems and each have an ICYDOCK SATA Cage. I have BIOS configured for the drive to be hot swapable and all works. I run backups on a 4 TB drive...it is a normal 7200 rpm INTERNAL drive...So, I just thought for the BEST protection I should get a 2nd drive so I can rotate which drive I run my backup images to. These are powered off unless I am running a backup.

    I thought I may as well get an 8TB drive but need the best reliability. Also, they must be 3.5 inch but wonder if a 5400 rpm drive would save money and be good enough?

    Thank you for any help!
     
  15. Hadron

    Hadron Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2014
    Posts:
    1,779
    Hi MPSAN.

    For 3.5" internal mechanical drives, I am a big fan of Western Digital (WD).
    I've been using them for years, and have never seen one fail.
    I usually use Black (7200 RPM), but Blue (5400 & 7200 RPM) are a good all rounder. Even Red NAS (5400 RPM) drives work well for storage. And Red Pro are 7200 RPM.

    About WD Hard Drive Colors.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2020
  16. MPSAN

    MPSAN Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Posts:
    956
    Great as I like WD as well. I just do not know at this time which color would be OK for what I want to use it for. I was going to get an 8TB drive as I do not think that a 4 TB is that much less.
     
  17. jphughan

    jphughan Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2018
    Posts:
    761
    Location:
    US
    If you'll only be running one at a time and it's just for typical backups, then I would get just a basic WD Blue drive, or Black if you want somewhat better performance. I'd have recommended Green, but they don't seem to offer that on spinning disks anymore. The Red drives are designed for NAS boxes and therefore have optimizations for running 24/7 and dealing with higher vibration levels caused by having multiple spinning disks installed in close proximity, as is often the case with a NAS. The Purple drives are designed for surveillance and are therefore optimized for 24/7 operation AND non-stop write activity, while still being able to deliver decent read performance without interrupting writes.

    So any color will be fine for what you're doing, since it's a pretty typical use case, but you'd probably be wasting money on things you don't need with most of them. I MIGHT have said the longer warranty and/or higher MTBF of the Red disks could be worth it if you found a decent deal, but if you have a disk rotation going anyway, then drive failure is less of a problem even if it happens.

    As for rotational speed, that doesn't tell the whole story in terms of performance. You also have to look at the number of platters in the drive itself, so if you want to get a sense of performance, try to find benchmarks that measure sequential read and write.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2020
  18. MPSAN

    MPSAN Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Posts:
    956
    Thank you. I wonder if the RED would be what I need as I will be moving the drive from 1 system to the other when I backup. Other than that it will be powered off and if I only use it for full Images, I am not sure performance would be much of an issue 5400 vs 7200. Still wonder if the 4TB to 8TB cost difference is worth it.
     
  19. jphughan

    jphughan Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2018
    Posts:
    761
    Location:
    US
    I personally wouldn't go for Red unless the cost difference was negligible, in which case I might go for it just for the longer warranty and higher MTBF. But otherwise, as I said, Red is designed for 24/7 operation and installations that involve multiple drives in close proximity within the same chassis. You'll only have one drive installed at a time, and therefore your drives won't be running 24/7, so if there's a meaningful cost difference, I don't know that the value proposition would be there for you.

    As for 4TB vs. 8TB, I pretty much only buy what I realistically expect I might need simply because extremely high data density spinning disks make me nervous. Perhaps not rational, but I try to keep things as simple as I can to meet my needs, so I won't buy way more capacity than I think I'll ever need just because it's "not that much more cost".

    In terms of performance, if the source you're imaging is an SSD, then the spinning drive will be the bottleneck during image operations no matter what. It's just a question of how much of a bottleneck. And if your backups are occurring overnight, you might not care about backup speed. But if you ever want to RESTORE something at a time when you're waiting to use your PC, then having your backups on a faster drive might be nice for reducing restore time, especially if you have Reflect Free and therefore wouldn't have access to RDR.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2020
  20. MPSAN

    MPSAN Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Posts:
    956
    Thank You again...
    Well, I do NOT have Reflect FREE..I paid! :)

    My current Backup drive is a 4TB 7200 RPM Drive and I only want another one to use for change off when I do my FULL MANUAL Images a few times per month on each System. The Images are of an SSD, but how long it may take to restore or even do the backup is not much of a concern. Still, if a 7200 RPM drive is not much more then it may be worth it. The WD Black is a great drive but would it be too good?
     
  21. jphughan

    jphughan Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2018
    Posts:
    761
    Location:
    US
    I don't know how to answer the question of whether it's "too good". I would recommend comparing sequential read and write performance of the WD Blue and Black drives. Since you'll be using them for backups, that's the type of reading and writing you'll be doing all the time anyway. If the increase in performance is worth the marginal cost for you, then it's worth it. If not, possibly because you're never in a rush to complete a backup and you wouldn't be too concerned if a restore took longer even in cases where you couldn't use RDR, then go with a Blue and don't look back.
     
  22. MPSAN

    MPSAN Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Posts:
    956
    One quick note that a lot of 4TB drives are actually 8 TB drives that had some bad surfaces and were sold as only 4 TB...just a comment.
     
  23. MPSAN

    MPSAN Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Posts:
    956
    I notice that B&H has the Retail Kit of the Red 4TB drive kit with a discount making it $84.99 but am not sure it is CMR. For what I want to use it for would it matter if they, in fact, send an SMR or is this beyond anything that would matter?
     
  24. jphughan

    jphughan Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2018
    Posts:
    761
    Location:
    US
    So drive manufacturers are doing what CPU manufacturers have done for years. Sigh.... But that sort of makes my point that we may be pushing platter density a bit too far. Even before this, HDDs were relying on nearly constant on-the-fly error correction.
     
  25. MPSAN

    MPSAN Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Posts:
    956
    Yes with offsets in case they landed a little off track! Anyway, I can see if the Blue drive is any less money than the B&H Red deal.
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.