Macrium Reflect or Shadow Protect Win 8

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by SourMilk, Jan 17, 2013.

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  1. Isso

    Isso Developer

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    Brian,

    You may want to try UltimateDefrag, first do a boot defrag, then ordinary consolidate. UltimateDefrag boot module is able to move all NTFS metadata files - this should clean all space at the end of the partition. Besides, you can use it to view what files are occupying that space.
     
  2. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Isso, thanks. I think I quoted an unfair example as that is a partition on a SSD that had been resized down from 100 GB. However I do have a 30 GB Win8 partition on a HD (not SSD) where the last sector in use is at the end of the partition. It's obviously another resized partition. Performance wise I don't think it matters. Subjectively at least.
     
  3. Isso

    Isso Developer

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    Thank you Steve,

    From the articles that you've posted I learned that agentless programs don't actually install anything on the target OS, thus obviously they cannot use VSS at all, and that's why Microsoft recommends agent-based solutions. This seems quite logical to me.

    And I don't think VSS is in any way related to the fact that program requires reboot or not. You either use VSS or not - that's the main point IMHO. And since both ShadowProtect and Macrium do use VSS, I assume that the backups are equally safe. Please let me know if I'm missing something.

    BTW I'm in no way affiliated with Macrium, to some extent it's even our competitor, I was just curious about your statement that ShadowProtect makes safer backups that Macrium, and I was hoping it could give me some ideas to make our product better. So far I couldn't find any difference, please correct me if I'm wrong. Thank you

    Isso
     
  4. Isso

    Isso Developer

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    Brian,

    I see, thank you for explaining. I'm just sometimes using UD boot defrag to move that "unmovable" files back and allow Windows to shrink the partition further.

    Isso
     
  5. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Isso, Drive Snapshot doesn't install anything at all. It can run from the exe and it can use VSS.
     
  6. Isso

    Isso Developer

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    Brian, I didn't mean installation in terms of a setup program, but the fact that the program simply doesn't run on the target machine. It runs on another machine, and gets the data either by reading the backed up drive as a network share, or by using VM interfaces (if the target is a VM). Hope this makes sense

    Isso
     
  7. andylau

    andylau Registered Member

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    Te be honest, agent-based or agent-less is not important to home users! Also some people do not like background processes.

    Both shrink/resize/compact/defrag are waste of time to do so.
    If one need not to shrink/resize/compact/defrag both source and target partition/image, and can restore image to smaller partition automatically. Which one will you choose? You want to waste your time or save your time?
     
  8. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Andy, I know you are keen on restoring images to a smaller partition. How often do you need to do this? Just interested.
     
  9. andylau

    andylau Registered Member

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    Brian,

    It is not a point how often a user will restore image to a smaller partition. It is the point that it is flexible and convenient or not.

    I think most of people will not often restore image to a smaller partition, the same as me. I will do that when I need.
     
  10. andylau

    andylau Registered Member

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    Not just Drive Snapshot, Active Disk Image and Image for Windows can also do that.:D
     
  11. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    Dear Raza,

    Thank you for the above informative post. Talking about MBA, I also do have a MBA from a very prestigious University in USA.

    I fully understand what you are saying, and that Steve has not been able to defend his product and therefore he has reduced himself to ranking his competitor. Any company who does this doesn't have my respect at all, even that company is Macrium Reflect. When Steve first posted in this thread, I had lots of respect for him and I thought that we will learn from him, not that he will be criticizing his competitor. He said his motive was as such:

     
  12. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    Dear Andylau,

    Excellent point and I hope Brian can see that a product like IFW which costs 12 times less than Shadow Protect is able to do the above, or Macrium Reflect which costs 6 times less than Shadow Protect can do the above. But a product like Shadow Protect which costs arms and legs is not able to do without someone pulling their hair, massive research and tons of work.

    Best regards,
     
  13. andylau

    andylau Registered Member

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    Aladdin,

    IFW cannot restore to smaller partition without resizing/compact/defrag/shrink both source and target partition/image.
    It is one of reasons that I do not continue to use IFW.
     
  14. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    Double Post!
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2013
  15. Keatah

    Keatah Registered Member

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    Why are we even arguing about the price? Just don't use it.
     
  16. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    We've been through this before and that isn't true. Restoring an IFW image to a smaller partition depends on the sector spread in the source partition. Say the source partition is 300 GB. Some partitioning apps will only restore to a 300 GB or larger partition. This doesn't apply to the TeraByte trio.

    Today I restored an image of a 300 GB partition to a 100 GB partition. No resizing, etc.
     
  17. andylau

    andylau Registered Member

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    I have told you before, I mean no matter how sector is spread, image still can restore to smaller partition.

    IFW can restore to smaller partition only when the last place of used sector is smaller than the target partition size.
    When the last used sector is in 101GB, you cannot restore to a 100GB partition.

    Depending on the sector spread in the source partition is not flexible and inconvenient in some situations.

    Of course, if user do not care about this, then this is not an issue.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2013
  18. jo3blac1

    jo3blac1 Registered Member

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    A Lot of people do when they upgrade their 320gb hard drive to a smaller size SSD.
     
  19. stevesnyder

    stevesnyder Registered Member

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    Hello Isso,

    I think your assessment is spot on. VSS is definitely the way to go when it comes to properly backing up Windows at the block/sector level. Too much is left on the table with a file/folder backup when an OS is concerned.

    Cheers!
     
  20. stevesnyder

    stevesnyder Registered Member

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  21. andylau

    andylau Registered Member

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    We do not want to resize/compact/defrag/shrink both source and target partition/image!!!
     
  22. pandlouk

    pandlouk Registered Member

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    And who are "we"?
    Personally, I do not want or need imaging software that performs file based restores to achieve resizing.
    If you believe that acronis or ghost are superior products, since they offer this ability, just use them and move on. No need to troll about file restoration in every imaging thread.

    Panagiotis
     
  23. andylau

    andylau Registered Member

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    Of course, "we" means people who also do not want.

    There are not just acronis and ghost can do that. As I know Macrium Reflect also can do that. This thread is talking about "Macrium Reflect or Shadow Protect", so what's wrong with my saying?

    When you want to restore an image to SSD you will know its importance/convenience.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2013
  24. pandlouk

    pandlouk Registered Member

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    I know that macrium 5 can also do that.
    Also, every other imaging app that supports image mounting on a WinPE can perform it as well, with the use of robocopy. But is not an partition/disk image restore; is a file based restore on a new formatted partition which is a different thing.
    I already have restored to smaller ssds and did not find it inconvenient not using file based restores.

    Panagiotis
     
  25. andylau

    andylau Registered Member

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    Both Acronis and Symantec Ghost are needed not to mount image to restore to smaller partition.
    They can restore image to both formatted and unformatted drive/partition directly. I think Macrium also can do that.

    I think you have not used either one of them before, right?
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2013
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