M.2 & MVNe Temperature Sensors - HWiNFO

Discussion in 'hardware' started by Surt, Mar 14, 2020.

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  1. Surt

    Surt Registered Member

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    I've got a couple of 500GB 970 EVO PLUS SSDs in my brand spankin' new desktop.

    While just about everything reports on but one temperature, it is HWiNFO that reports two: Drive Temperature and Drive Temperature 2.

    In scouring the intuhnetz I found the industry standard is for two sensors, the controller and the storage modules.

    But there doesn't seem to be any consensus of which is which in HWiNFO, even from the HWiNFO folks.

    I clipped from an HWiNFO screenshot of some one whacking the heck out of an SSD using ATTO.

    The columns are current, min and max. Minimum would be the idle values.

    HWiNFOdrive1-2temps.jpg

    I speculate it's "Drive Temperature 2" that's the controller, demonstrating throttling to keep the storage temperature at bay. I won't subject my drives to that pressure, but in a quick and dirty SEQ1M Q8T1 in Crystal Disk Mark, it's #2 that ramps up immediately.

    Anyone agree? Or...

    Ultimately, I would like to use HWiNFO's "Customize values..." to rename the appropriate sensors "Storage" and "Controller."

    Cheers.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2020
  2. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Industry standard?? Ummm, no. There are no standards for sensors. Every manufacturer can do it anyway they want. They can put them where they want and label them how they want - if they even have sensors. Nothing says they have to use sensors at all. And even if sensors are used, those devices are very low tech and no way could they be called "precision measuring" devices. If there was a standard, it sure would make it a lot easier for us to monitor our temps, and more importantly, to understand what they mean, and how to compare them with some published "baseline" and with other devices.

    How are the temps when idle?
    Ummm, no. First and foremost, they don't seem to be kept at bay at all! The way I read that, "Drive Temperature 2" is for drive number 2. Though admittedly, I may be reading that because of the limited scope of your screen shot.

    But again, because there is no industry standard, we cannot tell. I also have two SSDs in this machine and when I run HWiNFO64, my reports looks a little different. That might be because my drives are different (Samsung 850 Pro and Samsung 860 Evo) and thus are reporting different information while you have two identical drives. Or it may be because my motherboard's controller is reporting it differently - again reflecting a lack of industry standards for how that information is reported. :(

    My drives tend to sit ~25 - 27°C when not pushed, and when taxed, they might hit 40°C. My ambient (room temp) is 70°F. I note according to the specs on your drives here, the published operating environment should not exceed 70°C. According to your screen shot, you are well above that! Not good. :(

    Sadly you told us nothing about the rest of your system so we have nothing to go on there. How are your other temps?

    The first thing I would do is check with a different hardware monitor. My preferred monitor is HWiNFO64, which you appear to be using. So you might try Speccy to see if you get the same (or close to it) readings.

    If you do, then IMO, you need to look at your case cooling. Is the interior clean of heat trapping dust? How is your cable management? Again, what are your other temps? Do you have a good flow of cool air flowing through the case (and across the drives)? Typically you want good front-to-back flow. Do you have space to add another fan in front to pull more cool in?
     
  3. itman

    itman Registered Member

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  4. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Here are my two drives while web browsing...

    M2.png

    Ambient temperature 23° C.

    The first drive is always hotter (contains the OS) than the second and is situated just below the graphics card so it probably has poorer airflow cooling. I might move it above the graphics card later.

    Samsung Magician temps are 40 and 37.

    CrystalDiskInfo temps are 41 and 36.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2020
  5. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Yeah, so even within the same brand, they report differently.

    I don't have Drive Temperature or Drive Temperature 2 for either of my Samsung SSDs. Instead, mine has "Drive Airflow Temperature". That's with HWiNFO64 v6.22-4060.
     
  6. Surt

    Surt Registered Member

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    Being SATA drives, they're really different from M.2 drives and can't be referred to in the context of my posting. But thanks for your input.

    To save my life, I can't find the paper I read on the M.2 interface specs for drives. I should have saved the PDF. "Industry standard" wasn't the best way to describe it. Sorry.

    That said, no one has to implement all the specs as long as core functionality is delivered. Samsung has chosen to throw in the two sensors.
     
  7. itman

    itman Registered Member

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    Just get a full tower case. Distance between my graphics card and the drive bay in the front of the case is a good foot or more. My CoolerMaster case has a 120mm fan in the front of the case and drive bay blowing outside air on all the drives.
     
  8. Surt

    Surt Registered Member

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    Same here.

    My970sHWiNFO.jpg

    As you can see, I've already customized the labels though the 1 & 2 temps labels for are my best guess. I shortened the serial numbers. The D: drive is the one up near the CPU.
     
  9. Surt

    Surt Registered Member

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    Thanks. I know the Magician well. Ironically, it reports but one sensor temp and doesn't say which.

    And it won't park anything like these on a desktop:

    Desktop2.jpg

    I know that's Geek Overboard, but it is who I am...

    FYI: For those interested, the PCH operating range is 0-110C° and goes critical at 128. That's specifically the Z390, but represents specs for mostly all modern chipsets.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2020
  10. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Mine are in M2A and M2P ports.

    I avoided M2M as it shares lanes with SATA 5 and 6. But since I'm not using SATA 5 and 6 I might try it instead of M2A. M2A is the port just below the graphics card. It doesn't share any lanes.

    Or am I wasting my time trying to find "cooler" positions for the NVMe SSDs?
     
  11. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    I've got a Mid Tower case. 2 fans at the front, 2 fans on top and 1 fan at the rear.

    https://www.corsair.com/ww/en/Categ...Noise-Tempered-Glass-ATX-Case/p/CC-9011167-WW
     
  12. Surt

    Surt Registered Member

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    Are you referring to social status or temperature? :)

    When I was considering the two drives in my new build, I went nuts as to which slots would be for the OS and Data. In all that I read, while one could run benchmarks to demonstrate the one by the CPU is the faster slot, a human would not be able to notice.

    I put the data drive on the one up by the CPU and OS is on the other by the PCH mainly in the air flow and with the factory heatsink. I don't use GPU card so the one by the CPU is pretty much in the open and using a EKWB heatsink - nonetheless running 3-5 degrees warmer.

    BTW, sharing a lane doesn't mean all the the lane isn't used. It actually means one port is disabled if the other is used and vice versa. "Share" isn't actually the most precise way they chose to express it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2020
  13. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Good one!
     
  14. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    These drives are fast. After installing Win10 I made an image backup of the OS drive to the other NVMe drive. The backup took six seconds.

    I'm multi-booting on the first drive (several OS and a single common data partition) and using the second drive for backups.
     
  15. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Speccy doesn't show a temperature for my two drives.
     
  16. Surt

    Surt Registered Member

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    No temps for me either. And "S.M.A.R.T not supported." Speccy hasn't been updated since May, 2018 and shouldn't be depended on for completeness or accuracy.

    No temps for another popular monitor as well, Open Hardware Monitor. Upgraded on FEB 24 after a nearly four year hiatus, a comment on the site reported NVMe drives are "not yet supported."
     
  17. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    NO! You missed the point!

    My drives could be WD hard drives and my point remains the same and is still valid.

    This is NOT about the type of drives in there. This is all about the heat and how that temperature is being reported by the monitoring program. And according to your monitoring program, your drive is too hot! Period!

    So you need to see why that drive is too hot. It is the case's responsibility to provide a sufficient supply of cool air flowing through the case. And it is YOUR responsibility to set up case cooling, ensure proper cable management to minimize the impact of your cables on that air flow, and to keep the interior clean of heat trapping dust.

    Again, it does not matter what kind of drive you or I have. Your monitoring program is reporting your drive is running too hot!

    Remove the side panel of your case and blast a desk fan in there and see what happens.
     
  18. Surt

    Surt Registered Member

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    If you're referring to the screenshot in my #1 post, it's "...clipped from an HWiNFO screenshot of some one whacking the heck out of an SSD using ATTO." The ones in #8 and #9 are mine.

    The context of my OP is which is which of the two sensors' data are shown for HWiNFO's two drive temperature labels. Period! Everything else is chatter and slightly off topic. Which is fine.

    But, your too-hot judgement is misinformation; it needs to be corrected in the interest of those who might happen upon this thread.

    Generally, SSDs are rated for operating within 0-70°C measured at "the hottest spot on the controller case" and 85 being critical. Which is what spawned my OP. Anyhow...

    520 MB/s SATA SSDs, properly cooled, run in the mid 20's where my 850 has operated for years in my older system. Right now it's at 23°C.

    For screamin' 2500 MB/s M.2 SSDs, a search on "m.2 temperature" returns years of posts by gamers, builders and yoo toobers reporting the M.2 happy happy range is 35-45°C and with those inquiring about running in 50°C temp ranges are assured, though not ideal, they're safe. I agree.

    I have two filtered 120mm fans up front and a 120mm in back for very responsibly implemented positive pressure case cooling. Cable management is awesome. Without a GPU card or drive cage, air flow is superb. The temps for all monitored components, at idle and under load, are A-OK. Removing the side panel and using a desk fan, "blast" or not, wouldn't be anything but detrimental. Otherwise, thanks for your concern.

    Cheers.
     
  19. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    My mistake. I did think the shot in post #1 was for your system. Sorry.

    I would not make that generalization. And I disagree with your statement that the measurement is made at "the hottest spot on the controller case". The measurement is made by the sensor, and there is nothing to suggest all manufacturers place those sensors at "the hottest spot on the controller case". Because, once again, I note there is no industry standard on this.
     
  20. Surt

    Surt Registered Member

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    The 0-70°C operating temperature (critical at 85) is Samsung's published spec across its range of NVME M.2 model codes and is universally and extensively cited even in discussions of other manufacturers' as their specs are precisely that or closely within that scope.

    I wrote the hottest spot on the controller case in quotes to underscore a derived reasoning based on reading a boatload of online docs. And in re-thinking that, it's probably anywhere considering the components are in a case is about 2mm thick and a bit over a centimeter and a half square. I don't care to engage any further especially since any more time off-topic is a waste of time.

    Anyhow: my own observations during 30-40GB m2ts to DVD-fit mp4 conversions (hovers at about 65°C) and large file transfers over the past three months align with conclusions posted at HWiNFO and other enthusiast forums I've searched/visited since my OP:

    • Temperature 2 is the controller while the other is storage. Whew! Glad we got that squared away. :thumb:

    Cheers. Thread closed.
     
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