Linux vs Windows

Discussion in 'other software & services' started by Antarctica, Feb 25, 2007.

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  1. Antarctica

    Antarctica Registered Member

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    Re: Two Points

    Many thanks for the links, Someone.:) I will download that stuff, read it carefully and try to find some time free and see what I can do.
     
  2. Pedro

    Pedro Registered Member

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    Re: Two Points

    :thumb: Read Mrk's articles too if you must. Very good stuff:
    VMware Player - A great friend
    Installing VMware Server & Windows in Linux
    Installing SUSE Linux - Full tutorial
    Install (K)ubuntu - Full tutorial

    I'm using VirtualBox myself, but you should choose what you like best. With VirtualBox you can build your own VM, and install a regular OS.
    With VMware, Player only allows you to "play" VMs, but with this site you can build one too. VMware Server does what VirtualBox does, and some experienced members consider it superior i think. I myself can't tell them apart:D . And VMware asks for personal details, whereas VirtualBox is just download.
     
  3. Mastertech

    Mastertech Registered Member

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    The true vulnerability count

    You obviously didn't read the article I linked:

     
  4. Pedro

    Pedro Registered Member

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    Read my post, the kind of vulnerabilities, not blind numbers.

    A vulnerability that gives remote control of my pc is different from a vulnerability that can give away my e-mail. Just to stress what i mean by what kind, not to go into specifics on the vulnerabilities exposed.
     
  5. Ice_Czar

    Ice_Czar Registered Member

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    Re: Two Points

    as measured by www.netapplications.com
    of browser boxes
    from LAMP servers :p

    the reasons are changing...rapidly


    as for vulnerabilities

    http://i17.tinypic.com/46zaixc.png
    http://i19.tinypic.com/3yyyvz9.png

    just slightly more critical :p

    http://i19.tinypic.com/2rhlnk4.png
    http://i19.tinypic.com/317dxqa.png

    just a bit more remote access :p

    http://i15.tinypic.com/4d5p0n4.png
    http://i16.tinypic.com/2pq72hz.png

    just a tad more system access :p

    all security is a moving target, but the level and type of threats are fundamentally different
    even when factoring in the "other" distro specific or opensource application based exploits
    far less remote, far less severe, far less system access

    someone, you need to learn to use the "big hammer" :p
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2007
  6. Alphalutra1

    Alphalutra1 Registered Member

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    By the way, I do believe that linux is inherently more secure than Windows based on the implementation and design. However, many distros are trying to make it more and more a "Windows like" experience where everything is automatic. However, users have to realize that it is different (in many ways better, some ways not so much). One thing lacking is some vendors, who refuse to see it on the rise. This is circumvented by things such as ndiswrapper for linux or ndisulator (aka Project Evil) for FreeBSD (possibly NetBSD as well?)

    If you just want linux as a free as in money, free as in virus free, and free as in most hassle free, and free as in stability issue free, then try out ubuntu, or better yet, PC-BSD (freebsd + preconfigured GUI and a preconfigure package management system most windows users are used to)

    Why ubuntu or pc-bsd?

    Ubuntu is free, has a huge user community, GUI based, and does most of the configuring for you. Also, scripts such as the automatix script will download and install basically everything the average desktop user will ever need. Also, synaptic is a nice GUI-frontend for apt-get for installing packages.

    PC-BSD seems to be becoming on of my more preferred choices. Why?

    Based off of freebsd, so it is crazy stable and pretty darn secure.

    The development cycle for FreeBSD is much more stable and efficient IMO than Linux.

    It only provides a pre-configured GUI for users, so it is ready to go when it is installed with a nice KDE layout.

    The PBI packaging system is really sweet, you download a file, double-click it, then it comes up with a wizard very similar and familiar to what windows users are used to.

    However, PC-BSD doesn't change the basic freebsd system, so you still can compile your own kernel, work from the command line, install from ports, etc. and harness the speed of your computer.

    Cheers,

    Alphalutra1
     
  7. Pedro

    Pedro Registered Member

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    Re: Two Points

    Yes, i see what you mean :D
    But i prefer people get their own conclusions. By reading what i posted (even before, what Nick posted), and the links, one should be able to get the info you gave.
    Of course your graphical hammer was demolishing! As always:eek:

    Not to mention that "Linux" is free software, open source for everyone to read. Vulnerabilities should pop more easily when existing.

    Even the blind numbers help: unpatched for Windows - 33; for GNU/linux - 18.

    ........
     
  8. Ice_Czar

    Ice_Czar Registered Member

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    presentation counts for 40% of your total :p
    (why settle for small arms fire when you have a nice shiny jet full o napalm? )

    that rabid FUD posing as an "article"
    "Windows XP More Secure than Linux" (to hell with linking it again)
    is flawed in so many ways as to be laughable, most of which are covered in the commentary following it, however the level of obtuseness displayed by the "editor\author" in the piece and in the commentary argues that its a classic troll to generate traffic, he is either a blithering idiot or clever as a fox
    (not so clever since there all of 75 forum members for that site)
    that site isnt even pulling enough traffic to generate traffic stats\charts at alexa
    and they arent doing themselves any favors posting obvious FUD

    fanboy journalism :cautious: (at its worse)

    or on closer examination

    what I also find odd is Mastertech's posting history here (and elsewhere) and the high frequency of links to XP Myths (of the notorious Firefox Myths FUD)
    note the link to Popular Technology at the top and XP Myth's association to Microsoft Expert Zone, MVMVPS & MVPS.org
    in fact it appears Mastertech & Andrew K are one and the same, Mastertech is pimping his own errr...whatever you call that tripe
    (and why you never spare the big hammer)

    not that there is anything wrong with having a passionate opinion ;)
    but disinformation and deception is a different ballgame (and fairgame for a rapier wit)
    luckily this forum doesnt have any site pimping rules from what I can tell
    most forums Ive admin'd or mod'd would have slapped at least a timeout for a troll bomb+self pimp to a well known troll
    I would point out the serious handicap of being hoisted on your own petard,
    you and whatever valid viewpoint you may have had are now irrelevant.
    But I can see why you are here Andrew err David Dobsen err David H. err Drew, FFeLEET, GeneralAres, Jim, Joe Somebody, Mike G, MT, Newshound, Realist, TheHardTruth, Thor, Vincent, Im sorry I mean Mastertech.

    I wish I could get a well paid job as a fertilizer specialist :rolleyes:
    but being a ball breaking seeker does have it perks :p

    would have been a lot simpler to say I wrote this opinion as opposed to foisting it off as a "real" source of "real" information
    but that would be like asking a leopard to change its spots wouldn't it?
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2007
  9. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

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    Hello,

    I have one very simple analogy:

    Imagine you could get Mazda (Windows) or Ferrari (Linux).

    Mazda costs quite a bit of bucks.
    Unlike in the real world, Ferrari costs nothing!!!

    What are you going to get? Do you care about the "market share"?

    Who gives a fiddley fick about market share. All I know is that most servers in the world run *nix for a reason. And home users are hardly qualified to turn the light switch on, let alone judge OS.

    Mrk
     
  10. Antarctica

    Antarctica Registered Member

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    Ice_Czar, thanks for the reading.ROFL with your "Tripe":)
    By the way have you ever try that meal? When I was a kid, in my country, we use to have that once or twice a year.o_O :thumbd:
     
  11. Mastertech

    Mastertech Registered Member

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    Ice_Czar when you go to look for information on someone try to remember to avoid the Firefox/Linux Fanboy sites.

    Also Ice_Czar those charts again are ADVISORY totals not VULNERABILITY totals, thus inaccurate.

    The sad part about that is so long as you guys ignore the real problems (which you will) and continue to try and promote misconceptions Linux will stay around 0.35% market share.. There is nothing FUD about pointing out the security problems with Linux either.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2007
  12. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    lets face the facts that people at wilders are either here to ask for security advice or to help people with there security problems.
    would you say a guest account in windows xp is quite safe and doesn't have many rights?
    you can secure windows XP and vista.
    with windows you do have to reboot alot to install software.

    most home users have big problems with malware because they always use a admin account aka the default in XP. also they click on random links from messenger and emails and open any attachment. also some users use only avg antivirus for security and download illegal software from P2P.
    then they complain that windows xp in unsafe and wonder why there pc is so slow and crashes all the time.

    we all know its stupid to use an admin account all the time but most of use here can use a admin account all the time and be safe due to our safe surfing habits and security software and turn off services that are not needed. also we tighten up IE security settings and only use it for certain sites that need it.

    for the rest of the time we use e.g. firefox or opera.
    i always run as admin account and i havent seen malware for years.
    there are vulnerabilities in all operating systems and software.
    the problem is the user and not the OS
    try telling a teenager to use a limited account and they will just turn around and say i cant use limewire in a limited account or play e.g. World of warcraft. the point is they will just continue to use windows XP and IE7 on an admin account using P2p programs and wonder why there pc keeps crashing or complain
    lodore
     
  13. iceni60

    iceni60 ( ^o^)

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    i don't think market share is much of a priority for linux because linux is a free OS - a unix clone - it's more likely judged by how free it is (or at least i hear people talk about that a lot more than market share - it does come up, but i don't think it's that important) it doesn't have to be registered, downloads aren't counted, it's given away on magazine covers, you are told to make copies and give it away to your friends (all because being free is more important than market share) - anyway, i don't see how you can come up with a figure like 0.35% unless you are just trying to fool people, or perhaps have no idea what you are talking about :rolleyes:

    i personally hope the market share stays fairly low anyway so malware writers aren't tempted to start writing for linux and so it doesn't become anymore dumbed down - i like knowing how it works.

    what are the "real problems" you are talking about anyway?
     
  14. iceni60

    iceni60 ( ^o^)

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    i can't really be bothered to find it because it will probably take me all day, i've posted it before anyway, but there's an article on the internet somewhere that expalins how some linux Vs MS vulnerabilities are very misleading (the ones that show MS very much more secure lol). there's a big difference between how "linux" and MS declare vulnerabilities - linux and open source are known for getting it all out in the open, while MS will only admit something after they have made a patch, also most of the time the figures compare all linux distros against just one MS OS.

    i'll have quick look now for the article i'm talking about.
     
  15. iceni60

    iceni60 ( ^o^)

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  16. Mastertech

    Mastertech Registered Member

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    This is a good one so now NetApplications is trying to fool people?
     
  17. iceni60

    iceni60 ( ^o^)

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    or perhaps have no idea what you are talking about, yes. it's a fact ;)
     
  18. Mastertech

    Mastertech Registered Member

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  19. iceni60

    iceni60 ( ^o^)

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    that makes you and NetApplications then.

    anyway, what are the real problems you were talking about?
     
  20. NGRhodes

    NGRhodes Registered Member

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    Can you explain these Linux problems and how the compare/contrast to Windows problems ?
    And what misconceptions (are you reffering to the vunerbilities, or more)?

    Cheers, Nick
     
  21. NGRhodes

    NGRhodes Registered Member

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    Serious question, how do you measure the market share of Linux ? With Windows you can count number of licences sold, but how do you measure Linux ?

    Also, why does market share matter to something [Linux] that is community based, to me its like comparing Apples to Pears, the methods of distribution are just too different to compare.
     
  22. Mastertech

    Mastertech Registered Member

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    http://marketshare.hitslink.com/

    Market Share matters because despite Linux being free, despite years of online endorsements by advocates, despite so many claims of how great it is no ones uses it. And there are clear reasons for this. Firefox even gained over 10% market share after two years. Mainly because they did some of these things right.
     
  23. NGRhodes

    NGRhodes Registered Member

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    Not a true representation of market share share at all :rolleyes: . .. thats a specific group of sites, far from an impartial selection or sampling of data. Like taking one chain of car dealers and taking stats and saying its representitive of the national market.. they might not sell all brands, or a limited selection, or push certain brands/model/ranges more.

    I know plenty of people/companies who use Linux. There are more Linux webservers in the world, Google, Yahoo all run Linux boxes for their web farms, then we have all the embeded Linuxes running SOHO routers, eg Linksys, Belkin... I am not going to make silly claims, Linux use is widespread, but not in the same league as Windows, but considering that a lot of shops dont even stock linux distros and nearly all OEMs use Windows, I would say Linux is making steady progress.
     
  24. Mastertech

    Mastertech Registered Member

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    Sorry but I work for a PC OEM and deal with thousands of customers and clients. Only a handful has ever even asked about Linux, none use it. None of the educational institutions, small to medium businesses or end users use Linux. The market share statistics are very accurate and represent the reality that Linux advocates do not want to accept. While it is true many web hosting providers use it that is about it and has nothing to do with end user market share.

    Dispute it all you want but next to nobody uses Linux.
     
  25. NGRhodes

    NGRhodes Registered Member

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    On Securina there are some vunerabilities that are listed in more than one advisory.

    For example http://secunia.com/advisories/23384/ and http://secunia.com/advisories/23752/ - one is an advisory for Mandriva and one for Ubuntu but they both share 5 vulnerabilities.

    So the figures that "Andrew" from http://www.populartechnology.net/2007/01/windows-xp-more-secure-than-linux.html are already incorrect.

    Also what is important, as already mentioned is the severity, but also how quick they are fixed, maybe a measure of time in the wild before patched would be a useful measure.

    Anyhow, you know what I think, its down to the sys admins as far as security, XP and Linux can be secured to the point where the difference is insignificant, all it takes is a lazy sys admin who does'nt patch things or doesn't check on the servers regularly to realise something funny is happening.
     
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