kaspersky v/s tds-3

@Detox

Agreed. Please feel free to delete the last two sentences of my post. The first sentence already explains what's going on.

 

I have done so - and your understanding is appreciated. Now everyone stay on topic

 

I'd like to see some other reviews of AVK as well.. I love the idea of something with KAV + RAV for $30 and minus the bloat, but I'd like to see a thumbs up from West Coast or someone who can verify that it's not doing something it's shouldn't. I'm sure that StopSign and Virtual Bouncer had some pretty cool reviews to begin with, too. AVK sounds incredible.. too incredible, for $30.

As far as KAV vs TDS goes, I prefer having TDS for trojans as it's specialized. I like what I've heard about KAV, but it's failures on such tests as the VB100% lead me to believe that there have been a few false positives. It makes sense to me that a product that has a great specialty in one type of malware is going to do what it does very well. If you stretch yourself too thin, however, then something is bound to end up lacking.

I have personally opted for NOD & TDS (for scanning), two specialized products that do what they do very well and very efficiently. I haven't had any false positives and have had no overall negative impact on system performance, and I know that the developers are very well versed in their respective fields.. I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

Although this is not directly on topic, I don't think AVK sounds incredible for $30. It sounds about right given their corporate model. $30 (or the $20 single engine version) is the lowest tier in AV pricing above free - they're going for the folks who may be nervous about a free AV solution, but want to keep costs low.

They are certainly a very lean organization. The AV integrates and repackages current and/or previous generation engines of well respected applications with current signatures. As such, they don't have a application development team per se, nor an extensive support organization. Most of the issues that we'd refer to as support (integrating new viruses into signatures, dealing with false positive issues) can be fed to the AV engine parents since these are generic issues tied to the signature subscriptions. Most of the other components of "support" are non-technical in nature and can be handled by a sales/marketing function. As noted elsewhere, refunds are not offered on the downloaded product. The net result is that corporate overhead is very low.

As far as the product price point, look at the cost of KAV in quantity. 250 seats of KAV WS can be had for roughly $10.25 per seat from KL with support. Commit to more and the price should drop further, although I don't have any idea what the bottom is, but let's say it's between $5-$10/seat. For KAV/RAV/Bitdefender, it's a continuing revenue stream on, likely, an older version of their AV engine without appreciable support requirements. For the remarketer, it's a cost that allows you to build in a reasonable margin and still provide a low cost solution. The other thing to look at is the continuing cost of license extensions - for the AVK double engine it's $30 new and $25 for renewal versus ~ $50 new and ~$35 renewal (assumed 30% returning customer discount) for KAV from KL. Year over year, KAV is more expensive, but the differential is not as great as it first appears.

The whole situation is really no different than the private label/store brand approach that many manufacturers take to provide additional outlets for there products at lower price points. It's a potentially winning combination for both vendors and users.

If you don't need significant post-sales support, want a quality technical solution, and wish to keeps costs low, AVK looks to be a very attractive package. The only downside is when there is an incompatibility between AKV and something on your system. It's unlikely you'll receive rapid response support, but that's not something you've paid for. You will, however, often find fellow users out there who may be able to assist you.

Getting back on topic, as for using KAV or any other AV focused solution for extended malware coverage, I'm with you Notok - at the current state of development, I'll go with a multiple combination of specialized solutions (TDS-3 used here also) that are generally not continually active. Part of the rationale is a classical layered strategy, part of the reason is an ability to more finely tune the context in which the various solutions are applied (i.e. is it always active, demand only, etc.)

Blue

 

I got a phone call last night and hit "send" in the middle of editing, so I thought I'd finish my thoughts here.

AVK may not be directly on topic, but I think it's quite relavant to the topic. There are many things to consider when trying to find that balance between layered security & simplification (something I'm activly trying to find myself) and seems to be the issue here more than any specific product.

I can certainly understand how the company could obtain the engine and repackage it for a low price, but I think there are other considerations, such as where the updates come from, what version of the engines AVK is running etc. I'm sure it's a great product right now, but what about a year from now? I'd also be interested in seeing how it stacks up against the likes of NOD performance wise. We're also looking at what seems like a new company, and would like to know more about their business practices. Are they really dedicated to security? That's why I threw StopSign and Virtual Bouncer in there.. I would hate to recommend something to, say, my mother, and have it turn out down the road that it's downloading malware that "only" it can fix (or something of that ilk), I'm also eternally skeptical of companies that offer "reviews" in place of technical details of the product on their webpage, and don't openly offer a trial. Bottom line is that I'm taking a "wait and see" attitude with this. I'll keep an eye on it, but will wait until I see some more information by accredited independant sources before forming a real opinion either way. It's not getting the core components wrapped up into a new package for cheaper, it's the idea of "You get Kapersky, RAV, a firewall, encryption software, spam filter, ad blocker, content filter, backup tool, (etc etc etc) for ONLY $30!" that makes me take a step back and think "this sounds too good to be true." But then it doesn't help that I'm a pretty skeptical person to begin with.

If it works out, however, I would certainly recommend it as a good alternative, and would seriously considering picking it up as a secondary for on demand scanning to integrate with my download manager, Sentinel, RegRun, etc. (haven't quite got the simplification part down yet ) At any rate, things to consider when choosing any scanner, be it KAV, TDS, AVK, NOD, or any other programs with 3 letter acronyms for names.

Back to TDS vs KAV (specifically), the main kicker for me there, too (right beside performance), is that the specialized trojan scanner also gives you tools to help find what it can't detect. Even if you don't know how to fully utilize all the tools, you can view the help files offline. For example: if your system gets compromised, and someone or something is activly preventing you from getting online and getting help, you could be dead in the water, where something like TDS can help to hunt down the offending malware so that you CAN get more help. It's not just about what the scanner can pick up anymore. Maybe pre BackOrifice I could recommend something as a catch-all, but it's just not that easy anymore. You have to develop strategies for getting Windows installed SAFELY, who would have thought?!

Even if you prefer KAV over the other AVs, I would still recommend using a dedicated AT like TDS.

Blue: Exactly, I think the key words there are "current devlopment" Hopefully someone will come along that can help integrate these layers in a real way at some point, making some of these decisions a little less consuming.. even if it's just something that can manage a variety of other products. (Hmm.. if only we could get the OSS community more interested in Windows security.)

 

I have to agree - that offer gave me a lot of to pause about. Wouldn't touch it with the proverbial ten foot pole.

Excellent points!

I hadn't explicitly given any thought to the associated tools and information that TDS-3 specifically provides since I hadn't needed to use them. When you get down to it, these ARE the make or break components if you are down and are trying to get a handle on things. Even if the argument of a layered approach doesn't appeal, TDS-3 (I can't speak for others here) does have an extended complement of utilities to help you investigate, isolate, articulate, and resolve system problems that are simply not found in any other package that I know of, nor in many competing AT products. Some (many?) of these tools are available as standalone units, but you are quite right, the help files provide additional information and context that really would assist in a systematic investigation of a problem.

Maybe the best way to capture this is "treatment of malware" vs. "system/systematic diagnostics and treatment of malware". I'll always opt for the latter given an option. Treatment alone works if there's a standard therapy available. If a standard solution isn't available, you're dead in the water - so to speak. It's tough being patient zero, but products such as TDS-3 do provide measures that could save you.

Blue