kaspersky real-time AV, BD10 on-demand. possible?

Discussion in 'other anti-virus software' started by ejames82, Mar 30, 2007.

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  1. ejames82

    ejames82 Registered Member

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    my primary real-time antivirus is kaspersky. i scan regularly with several different antivirus and antispyware programmes in safe mode. i have a bitdefender disk that i purchased from them. i would like to include BD10 in the list of programmes that i scan with. the disk includes antivirus and antispyware. both of these programmes would be for safe mode scanning only.

    before i scan, i pause protection with kaspersky and update all the programs i have downloaded. i keep a close eye on the startup list, and don't let any icons remain in the system tray after an update. after updating spy sweeper, i always have to uncheck it from the startup list, and reboot. there's never a problem with the scans.

    i called the bitdefender people, and they told me that using BD10 this way, can't be done. the book that they include with the disk, says "sort of" the opposite. i think with the help of other experienced people, i can find out, one way or another, if it can be done.

    thanks to firecat and escalader on their previous replies in another thread.
     
  2. plantextract

    plantextract Registered Member

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    i really wouldn't try it. i saw a case where the whole pc froze if those 2 were installed, even in safe mode.
     
  3. Macstorm

    Macstorm Registered Member

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    Agreed with planet, BD products are especially reluctant to work well alongside any other 3rd party security apps.
     
  4. ejames82

    ejames82 Registered Member

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    everybody,
    one of the recommended steps was;

    "Take full backup of your whole PC at least anything that can't be found on a CD/DVD or USB stick."

    i have 2 ways to go about achieving this.
    1. ERUNT
    2. CD R disks to put the info on

    1. will these tools be adequate?
    2. does anybody have any tutorials or sticky's handy that cover these procedures/tools? my nephew did it last time, months ago.

    planetextract,
    when a computer freezes, what is the course of action? is there permanent damage? thanks.

    macstorm,
    thanks for the reply. i wonder if anybody else has tried this, and how it went for them.
     
  5. plantextract

    plantextract Registered Member

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    no there is no "permanent damage", but you can't boot, if you are using dual boot then you cna boot into the othe OS and delete the drivers and files of one of the AVs, or use a live cd.
     
  6. btman

    btman Registered Member

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    Hey there I wanted to do this but I couldn't log on after... Had to go into safe mode... delete lots of .dll files in BD folder (one of them was causing the error)... Log in normally and then using the uninstaller get rid of the rest of the files. So yeah, don't try it.
     
  7. ejames82

    ejames82 Registered Member

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    that's huge evidence, when someone has tried it and it didn't work. i am going to allow my healthy dose of cowardess to prevail and chicken out.
    sorry it didn't work out for you, btman. it would have been nice to have bitdefender with kaspersky, but online scans are still good.
    another factor that weighed in, was that i don't have a windows CD. i bought this computer from my neighbor.
    thanks to everyone who replied, and escalader, i printed out your post. it may come in handy for other programmes that may be less tempermental.
     
  8. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    what about the bitdefender live cd that boots in to linux.
    it updates before it scans.
    it can mount all harddrives and scan them.
    the iso is free from bitdefender site just burn to a cd.
    bitdefender ftp
    the live folder on the ftp is the cbit version of linux defender.
    the version under security folder is an older version.
    lodore
     
  9. Chubb

    Chubb Registered Member

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    NOD32 real-time and BD10 on-demand is working in my Win2K box.
     
  10. C.S.J

    C.S.J Massive Poster

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    this forum is biased!
    i just dont see the point of this at all,

    with all the 2av (realtime and ondemand)

    not only that, but either you have tons of money just to do this, or your running cracked versions, which i would NEVER do with an AV software, could be hacked and cracked to leak stuff or anything.

    either way, 2 avs ..... I JUST DONT UNDERSTAND IT. o_O
     
  11. Escalader

    Escalader Registered Member

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    Hey ejames:

    Now that you said it is neighbours former PC that changes a few things.

    1) IMHO everybody needs a valid OS cd/dvd and license key, it in the end is our last line of defense.

    2) I don't think you chickened out, you researched asked good questions and have made your decision, everybody should be so logical.

    3) Be happy with KAV, keep it up to date, run full scans at least weekly, and if it allows quick scans do them daily!

    4) Monthly, do your on line scans to double check, all should be well.

    5) If you go into high risk surfing and on line banking, consider ( if you haven't already) a router, a Firewall and an extra ASW on demand.
     
  12. Escalader

    Escalader Registered Member

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    It is just the fact that some believe that no one AV or ASW has 100% detection performance. Maybe someday, some vendor will do it, and I will be the first in line to buy it! Heuristic detection is #1, on demand is #2. That is why BD and others like it with good heuristics are talked about so much here.:D
     
  13. Chubb

    Chubb Registered Member

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    I understand that it is not a good practice to install 2 AV on the same OS, but the on-demand scanner helps to confirm an infection when the real-time scanner finds an infection. Sometimes, there are false positives and the on-demand scanner can confirm the infection. Of course, if such combination would cause instability, I will not install 2 AVs on the same OS.

    I have a dual boot system (WinXP and Win2K) and having licenses for more than one AV gives me more flexibility in installing the most stable and suitable AV in the right OS. In the months to come, I will buy Vista and I will have a triple boot system, and so I can install 3 different AVs in my 3 OS.

    I don't need to have tons of money to have licenses for more than one AV, because I must buy a license if I want to use the software, no matter I am rich or poor. I am a PC enthusiast and I am willing to invest in genuine software, just like people investing in expensive Hi-Fi or cars.
     
  14. ejames82

    ejames82 Registered Member

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    ladore,
    although i have a general idea of what you are suggesting, i'm not quite advanced enough yet.

    CSJ,
    the point is, if one does detect and one doesn't, maybe a third scan is warranted, or a hijackthis.

    "not only that, but either you have tons of money just to do this, or your running cracked versions, which i would NEVER do with an AV software, could be hacked and cracked to leak stuff or anything."
    1. good deals come along all the time
    2. what do you mean by "cracked versions"? i don't know what that means.

    escalader,
    "everybody needs a valid OS cd/dvd and license key"
    there's been many times i wish i had the windows CD, but it hasn't been crucial, yet.

    "Heuristic detection is #1, on demand is #2. That is why BD and others like it with good heuristics are talked about so much here."
    according to www.virus.gr, only kaspersky engine AV's have a higher rate of detection than bitdefender. cyberscrub is also kaspersky, i was told.

    my neighbor bought this computer at walmart. he gave me all the paperwork and literature, but no disk. maybe walmart didn't give him a disk.

    chubb,
    "NOD32 real-time and BD10 on-demand is working in my Win2K box."
    i would be interested in being told how you arranged that.

    "the on-demand scanner helps to confirm an infection when the real-time scanner finds an infection. Sometimes, there are false positives and the on-demand scanner can confirm the infection."
    "I don't need to have tons of money to have licenses for more than one AV,"
    "I am willing to invest"
    i'd like to compare it to legalizing your car. look how much it can cost if you're nailed for driving illegally.
    __________________

    thanks to everybody for their replies.
     
  15. C.S.J

    C.S.J Massive Poster

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    this forum is biased!
    i dont agree,

    no av is perfect in detection, far from it.... so maybe i should install kaspersky, avira, nod32 and just have my drweb for safe measure. *lol*

    i could use kasperskys proactive defense, with aviras detetion, nod32s heuristics and scan speeds and my drweb for its overall performance :D
     
  16. Escalader

    Escalader Registered Member

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    "according to www.virus.gr, only kaspersky engine AV's have a higher rate of detection than bitdefender. cyberscrub is also kaspersky, i was told."

    The independent http://www.av-comparatives.org/ is the one I use for comparing heuristics and on demand detection rates.

    Have a look at them when you get a chance, the main thing is to have 1 of the top 5 as your active/real time AV and another for on demand scans however you get that done, CD, installed but not active, or on line scanning.

    C.S.J is right none are 100% and users could go crazy adding one AV after the other and do a security package overdose. He is happy with his choice, not a problem for me anyway. Main thing is the layer defense exists on your PC and mine. If I had to reduce right now to 2 tools, one of them would be my router and the other BD10 since it has AS, ASW. The thing that then would be missing would be the outbound FW control.
     
  17. C.S.J

    C.S.J Massive Poster

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    this forum is biased!
    yep, this is how i have it (although drweb and not BD) and i dont even 'miss' the outbound firewall control.
     
  18. Chubb

    Chubb Registered Member

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    It is not difficult to arrange for BD and NOD to exist together. Install BD first, disable the real-time protection of virus scanning and anti-spyware. Then install NOD32. If you do not experience a conflict, you can go for it if you want to. If you get an error or some conflict, you should go for only one AV.

    Every computer configuration is different and you need to test it before you can really install it. Installing one, two or more than two AV on the same OS is a personal preference. You may disagree but some people might want to try, so far as it is working. Of course, as I have said, if installing more than one AV is not working with your configuration, you should not go for it even if you want to do so.
     
  19. Firecat

    Firecat Registered Member

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    BD and NOD co-existing is OK enough, as NOD32 itself is light and is not very sensitive to other anti-malware applications. On the other hand, Kaspersky is more sensitive than NOD, and BD is hyper-sensitive, and that is why I think problems will happen, especially related to the Proactive Defense Module in KAV 6.

    It may, however, be easier to have KAV 5 or 4.5 co-exist with BD.
     
  20. ejames82

    ejames82 Registered Member

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    chubb said "It is not difficult to arrange for BD and NOD to exist together"
    firecat said "NOD32 itself is light and is not very sensitive to other anti-malware applications"

    those are two more reasons why nod32 is a great AV.
     
  21. Firecat

    Firecat Registered Member

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    NOD32 is not very sensitive to other anti-malware applications by design. You see, several years ago, before the release of version 2.5, Eset's primary focus of detection was on viruses, and for this reason various resellers and users would recommend using an anti-trojan or anti-spyware application along with NOD32 in order to keep the protection level high. With version 2.5, NOD32 improved its detection of trojans and spyware to a very high level, and though an anti-trojan was not particularly needed anymore, the NOD32 design remained the same.

    On the other hand, KAV was always extremely good in malware detection, to the point that it would match standalone anti-trojan or anti-spyware applications in detection rate. Today, this is common for most AVs, but 3-4 years ago many AVs would lag behind separate Anti-Trojan programs by a noticeable margin (in trojan detection rates). Since KAV was always this good, I believe the developers, the company, and the resellers never ever recommended their users to use an Anti-Trojan or Anti-Spyware application alongside the AV, since KAV could protect the user well enough without them. For this reason, KAV probably was not developed keeping compatibility with other anti-malware applications in mind.

    BitDefender pretty much came out of nowhere :)P), at least thats what I gather from reading past threads. In the past, they were quite tolerant of other anti-spyware applications, but with version 9, BD introduced its own antispyware, and from this point on BD probably decided to not focus on compatibility again, because BitDefender was and still has very good detection rates in all areas of malware, including trojans, adware, spyware, etc. :)
     
  22. ejames82

    ejames82 Registered Member

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    firecat,
    i agree with all that you said.
    do you think the AV companies would benefit from making their programmes compatible? their programme would be more attractive. especially to someone like me, who prefers to scan with different engines. it's kind of senseless to scan with kaspersky, fsecure, escan, and cyberscrub, because it's the same engine. but to scan with kaspersky, bitdefender, and nod32, possibly even mcafee and symantec, for someone who is really worried that they have malware and wants peace of mind. after scanning with those programmes and finding nothing detected, one could safely say that they don't have a virus or worms, probably no trojan, and likely not to have a rootkit. most spyware would be detected too, i think.
     
  23. Firecat

    Firecat Registered Member

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    While it would be good to have such a thing, the sales department of some AV companies would prefer to think otherwise. When someone uses an AV and a separate Anti-Spyware, there is a risk of a drop in sales of the AV. Consider this situation:

    This obviously leads to a loss in sales for Dr.Web (in this case). For this reason, companies do not recommend using another anti-malware product along with your AV. Which is why making this possible is a bit of a long shot. Usually, the smaller companies have to modify their product to make it compatible with the bigger company's product. That costs significant development effort. It may or may not be worth it. :)
     
  24. Escalader

    Escalader Registered Member

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    Just to add fuel to the fire I just found this on the Webroot SS 5.3 FAQ knowledge base, saying HOW to have SS 5.3 with AV on same machine as BD 10!

    Go figure! Seems like this vendor is aware of BD 10 and accommodating it!

    "Can I have Bit Defender Version Internet Security Version 10 and Spy Sweeper with AntiVirus on the same machine?

    Yes, however if the Anti Virus slider is set higher than Permissive in Bit Defender, then an incompatibility issue could occur which would cause unnecessary temp file to accumulate. In order to resolve this, make sure the slider under Antivirus to permissive in bit defender will stop the loop and is what I would recommend. Also If you are not stuck in the loop you can set the slider to aggressive and will NOT get caught in the loop."
     
  25. Mele20

    Mele20 Former Poster

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    I think vendors like BD are shooting themselves in the foot. I had BD 9 Pro version and loved it ...until the FORCED 9.5 update which had the new spyware scanner. I updated because it was forced and promptly had a BSOD on boot caused by the BD driver. BD, to my surprise, no longer had good email support and I futzed around with support back and forth and could not use BD at all because of the boot BSOD. Finally, support asked me to run Belarc Advisor and send them the results. After I did that, I got an email from them demanding that I immediately remove Spyware Blaster and Spybot Search and Destroy. I wrote back and said why are you saying they are incompatible with BD? I have had both for many, many years...since they were both in beta. I don't use Tea Timer...and they have never conflicted with BD before the forced upgrade to 9.5. Tech support replied that I was REQUIRED to remove both if I wanted to use BD. I wrote back and said why can't I revert to version 9 of BD which I loved? I never wanted 9.5. I don't need your spyware module and I tried to stop the forced upgrade so can I just go back to version 9 that works fine with MY chosen antispyware applications? The answer was NO. We will force the upgrade to 9.5. You cannot stop it and you cannot use 9.0.

    Wow! I then posted in the Spybot forum and was told "ho,hum" BD has always been hostile to SpyBot. I also posted here in JavaCool's forum and he was very puzzled. He said he had no idea why BD would tell me that the BD driver caused BSOD on boot was because I have Spyware Blaster installed along with BD 9.5. The particular BSOD I was getting was in BD's knowledge base and supposedly had been fixed back with version 8.0. So, I wrote back again to BD and said I was unwilling to give up my favorite antispyware programs and asked again if I could just use version 9.0 of the Pro BD that I had. The answer was NO. So, I uninstalled BD and will never use it again. That is a ridiculous attitude IMO. I have NEVER had Spyware Blaster or Spybot, in all the many years I have had them, conflict with an AV on any machine using 98SE or XP Pro...until BD 9.5 and I have trialed, done the beta, or owned just about every AV at one time.
     
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