Just a head's up.

Discussion in 'other security issues & news' started by spy1, May 27, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. spy1

    spy1 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Posts:
    3,139
    Location:
    Clover, SC
    https://secure.eff.org/site/Advocac...u131.app2a&page=UserAction&cmd=display&id=133

    "The Senate Intelligence Committee is currently considering a draft bill that would not only renew the USA PATRIOT Act's worse provisions, but would also expand the government's power to secretly demand the private records of people who aren't suspected of any crime - without a judge's approval.

    The Justice Department already has dangerously broad subpoena powers under the USA PATRIOT Act. PATRIOT Section 215 allows intelligence investigators to demand all kinds of private records about citizens who aren't suspected of spying or terrorism. PATRIOT Section 505, meanwhile, expanded the government's ability to use "National Security Letters" to secretly obtain data on private online and financial activities without court oversight or probable cause.

    The new bill not only makes these highly controversial provisions permanent, it marries the worst aspects of the two, allowing new "administrative subpoenas" in national security cases that would let the government secretly demand all types of records without a judge's permission.

    The Justice Department tried to get this super-charged subpoena power inserted into PATRIOT back in 2001. But even in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, Congress refused to allow this kind of unchecked surveillance power.

    If you are a resident of Kansas, Utah, Ohio, Missouri, Maine, Nebraska, Georgia, Virginia, West Virginia, Michigan, California, Oregon, Indiana, Maryland, or New Jersey, your senator is on the Senate Intelligence Committee. Contact them below."

    Folks, this is happening right now, so it is very important that - if you live in one of the states mentioned above - you contact your Reps via the included mechanism in that page right now!

    It's so like them to do this kind of thing right before a holiday weekend, when everyone's more concerned with holiday plans. Please don't let that tactic result in passage of this! Pete

    *Similar ALERT from the ACLU:
    https://secure.aclu.org/site/Advoca...erAction&JServSessionIdr003=hzm0plvka1.app26a

    My apologies in advance if this isn't the correct venue for this alert - this is just entirely too important NOT to put everywhere.
     
  2. spy1

    spy1 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Posts:
    3,139
    Location:
    Clover, SC
    Senate Committee Fails to Approve Expanded FBI Authority

    http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/usapatriot/sunset.html

    "In a closed meeting yesterday, the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence did not reach consensus on legislation that would reauthorize sunsetting provisions of the USA PATRIOT Act and increase the FBI's investigative powers. EPIC had urged the committee in a statement to carefully consider each sunsetting provision of the USA PATRIOT Act before voting to reauthorize, and not to expand the FBI's investigative powers unless the agency can show a need for more authority. EPIC also joined more than twenty organizations opposing an expansion of FBI authority to allow the law enforcement agency to demand records in national security investigations with no judicial approval. For more information, see EPIC's USA PATRIOT Act page."
     
  3. Notok

    Notok Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Posts:
    2,969
    Location:
    Portland, OR (USA)
    Yikes, this stuff just keeps getting scarrier.. I'm glad at least some of the folks in office have their heads screwed on right.. hopefully it'll stay that way.
     
  4. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Posts:
    8,697
    Hi,
    All in the name of freedom and democracy.
    Free gov't-sponsored trojan horses, ye! I will soon be moving to Albania, at least they don't use Internet, and even if they do, they use 14.4k modems, so I'll be safe.
    Mrk
     
  5. The Hammer

    The Hammer Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2005
    Posts:
    5,619
    Location:
    Toronto Canada
    Come to Canada instead. You won't have to learn a new language.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2005
  6. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Posts:
    8,697
    Hi,
    Truth to be told, I DO intend to come to Canada. I'm submitting my papers to the local embassy in a few months, in autumn. Talking about coincidence ...
    Mrk

    P.S. I might have to learn . . . French . . . but hopefully not.
     
  7. The Hammer

    The Hammer Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2005
    Posts:
    5,619
    Location:
    Toronto Canada
    Not unless you are moving to Quebec.
     
  8. Primrose

    Primrose Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
    Posts:
    2,743
  9. The Hammer

    The Hammer Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2005
    Posts:
    5,619
    Location:
    Toronto Canada
  10. Sam42

    Sam42 Guest

    Nothing really new here! America spies on the Brits and the Brits spie on the Americans, so to by pass there own laws. This just makes me feel even more fearful for the future. Oh well, the alien will probaly invade soon - LOL

    sleep tight!!!!!
     
  11. SAm42

    SAm42 Guest

    Echloen!= NSA, GCHQ and all the other english speaking nations, spie on each other and then share the findings. SET up after world war two by the British Commonwealth and USA. The patrotic Act uses Menwith Hill bases, all emails are scanned!!!! r u scared yet!!!!:) No take away!
     
  12. spy1

    spy1 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Posts:
    3,139
    Location:
    Clover, SC
    The A.C.L.U is asking all interested individuals to go online and sign their petition, here:

    https://secure.aclu.org/site/SPageS...iendly=1&JServSessionIdr006=0hojcaqv21.app25a

    The purpose of the petition is mainly to let the government know how many actual individuals are concerned with - and want changes made - to the 'patriot' act.

    While I don't usually hold with the "online petition" route, in this case I went ahead and signed it (with all applicable information fully included to validate my "signature" ).

    If you feel strongly about this issue, then I suggest you do the same.

    (You might want to make sure you UN-check the box that says "Sign me up for ActForChange" . Pete
     
  13. citrus1927

    citrus1927 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2005
    Posts:
    3
    Thanks to spy1 for the alert.
    There has been widespread opposition to this act from the beginning, especially after more and more people found out that it was read by only a handfull of congressmen before it was rushed through and constituted the biggest roll back in basic liberties in US history. See the following link for a long list of cities and states that have passed resolutions in opposition to this law.
    http://www.bordc.org/list.php?sortAlpha=1
     
  14. big ed

    big ed Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2003
    Posts:
    3,137
    Location:
    Ye Olde New England
    Well, I'm in the clear. I'm lucky that I live in Mass. where we do not have any elected officials smart enough to be on any such committee. All of our guys are on the Defence and Global Warming (or Cooling) Committees. They are doing one h..l of a job!

    Dream on, big ed
     
  15. spy1

    spy1 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Posts:
    3,139
    Location:
    Clover, SC
    Let me quote you some portions of the NY Times article that came out after the latest Judiciary Committee meeting (I'll bold the most important points for emphasis):

    "In a day of wide-ranging debate over the future of the act, Mr. Specter and Senator Dianne Feinstein, Democrat of California, introduced a bill that would require greater judicial oversight for certain surveillance activities and put a four-year "sunset" on two sections of the law, including a provision that allows the government to demand library and medical records in intelligence investigations.

    While their bill would permanently extend 14 provisions of the act that are set to expire at the end of this year, it would require Congressional renewal in 2009 (! FIVE YEARS? ) for the library provision and for a separate section related to roving wiretaps.

    The Justice Department, which has backed a separate plan by the Senate Intelligence Committee giving the Federal Bureau of Investigation broader antiterrorism powers, said it was reviewing Mr. Specter's proposal.

    But a senior department official, speaking on condition of anonymity because of sensitive political negotiations, said the department was troubled by several elements of the proposal, including provisions to raise the standard needed to obtain approval for certain types of surveillance and a public accounting of how often such powers are used. A Republican Senate aide, also speaking on condition of anonymity for the same reason, said Justice Department officials had already expressed their concerns privately and were "freaked out" by the prospect of greater restrictions on records.

    In the House, the Intelligence Committee, in approving its renewal of the Patriot Act, passed a measure Wednesday that, in contrast to the White House position, would place a five-year limit on a provision of the law that enables investigators to eavesdrop on suspected "lone wolf" terrorists. The committee also toughened rules on roving wiretaps, which are used as suspects switch telephone numbers.

    And in the House Judiciary Committee, lawmakers were moving through a series of amendments to that panel's version of the law in an effort to bring legislation before the full House next week. The committee also bucked the White House and put in similar 10-year sunset (! 10 years! A DECADE before the next review?? ) requirements on provisions that make it easier to obtain library records and use roving wiretaps.

    Republicans on both panels beat back Democratic efforts to put more controls on the act, including a provision that would have made it harder for federal investigators who lack hard evidence to gather private records on individuals they suspect are working on behalf of a foreign power.

    Representative Jerrold L. Nadler, Democrat of New York, sought to require federal agents seeking such records to demonstrate "specific and articulable facts" showing that the suspect could be a foreign agent. Republicans said that threshold was too high given that the special surveillance powers were intended to catch terrorists before they strike.

    For the most part, the measures headed for the House floor would retain the broad investigative powers granted by Congress after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. "

    None of the proposals being considered are even remotely acceptable. All would make permanent the majority of the provisions that are supposed to sunset.

    Of the ones that they retain a "sunset" clause on, the time period between re-visiting the clauses ranges from 5-to-10 years. (This allows a whole generation of kids to grow up never having known anything but the repression of their freedom and a central government executive branch that wields un-limited power. What are the chances that they will be able to do something about rot so deeply entrenched?).

    I find it highly enlightening (and deeply disturbing) that the government is absolutely frantic about not wanting to have to adhere to any evidentiary standard at all when using their power to pick apart your life - it's their complete break from being controlled in any fashion by the Judiciary Branch of government (the Constitution was framed as it was to prevent this from happening, which is why I consider the entire Patriot Act to be un-Constitutional).

    If we let this pass, there's no doubt whatsoever that the F.B.I will be granted "administrative subpoena" power and that ISP's will be required to keep detailed logs on everyone's Internet activities - IOW, it's "end-game" time.

    The Constitution and the Bill of Rights will cease to be meaningful documents in any context of an American citizens life - they'll become a historical curiousity.

    If you do not want this to happen, then I urge you to right now use all of the following links to contact your Representatives and Congressmen about your feelings (do it now - do not wait - this is probably going to go down next week! ).

    http://hq.democracyinaction.org/dia/organi...ampaign_KEY=621

    https://secure.aclu.org/site/Advocacy?pagen...unzpgy93.app23a

    https://secure.eff.org/site/Advocacy?JServS...=display&id=147

    After you do that, I'd like you to consider going to the "Action Center" link on this page: http://www.eff.org/ and responding to every single "Action Item" that has to do with the 'patriot' act and digital rights in general.

    It is time to send a clear message that we're not happy about this - and to send that message loud and clear in over-whelming numbers.

    It is probably our last chance to do so. Pete

    * Oh, and BTW - I won't be posting anything else like this here.

    If this doesn't cause people to get involved, and this all sails through, IMO - it will no longer be safe to do so. Pete
     
  16. big ed

    big ed Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2003
    Posts:
    3,137
    Location:
    Ye Olde New England
    I would assume, taking a pessimistic view, that whether this law passes or not the 'Powers' that be will do whatever they damn well please. Past events pretty much bear this out.

    Dream on, big ed
     
  17. spy1

    spy1 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Posts:
    3,139
    Location:
    Clover, SC
    From my CDT newsletter:

    "The House is scheduled to meet this Thursday, July 21 to vote on H.R.
    3911, the PATRIOT Act Reauthorization Bill. Call your member of
    Congress and urge him or her to oppose any expansion of the PATRIOT Act
    and to support reasonable safeguards, such as those found in the SAFE
    Act, a bipartisan bill that restores much-needed checks and balances to
    protect the constitutional rights of American citizens."

    You can use this link: http://www.cdt.org/action/patriot/ to find out your Reps name and phone no. (C.D.T urges people to call their Reps).

    This is the main points of the A.C.L.U's opposition to all of the bills currently being considered:

    "Although two House committees approved Patriot Act reauthorization bills last week, only cosmetic changes were made. Specifically, under Section 213 of the act, the federal government would still have the power to get a court order to secretly search any American’s home or business without notifying them of the search for months or longer and without showing any link between that person and terrorism. And Sections 215 and 505 would still allow the federal government to search medical, financial, and even gun records without ever showing any facts connecting those records to a foreign terrorist. The recipient of one of these demands under Sections 215 and 505 are subject to a permanent, automatically imposed gag order. The Sensenbrenner bill is so severely flawed that it gives a procedural right to challenge but then sets a standard for such challenges that renders them virtually worthless, and there is no right to challenge the permanent secrecy requirement."

    You may also use their facilities to contact your Reps:

    http://action.aclu.org/reformthepatriotact/

    FAX numbers for contacting your Reps can be had here and here:

    http://www.theorator.com/senate.html

    http://www.theorator.com/government/house.html

    if you'd rather compose your own message (or to copy and paste either the A.C.L.U or another message into the FAX).

    This is happening tomorrow, people - if you haven't already made your voice heard on this issue either way, you need to do so right now . Pete
     
  18. spy1

    spy1 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Posts:
    3,139
    Location:
    Clover, SC
    Read Sen. Patrick Leahy's response here:

    http://judiciary.senate.gov/member_statement.cfm?id=1583&wit_id=2629

    and read the A.C.L.U's response here:

    http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=18798&c=206

    (please do read that one, as it's a fine summation of exactly what got chopped and what got rammed through)

    The fact that no "up or down votes" were allowed on the various proposed amendments to H.R. 3199 is what has prevented this bill from being any more than a watered-down version of what it should have been.

    The A.C.L.U has provided a means to let your Representatives know that H.R. 3199 isn't good enough - please use it!

    http://action.aclu.org/site/Advocacy?pagename=homepage&page=UserAction&id=239


    They want this thing to be a done deal before the August recess - and there is only me and thee to stop them. Pete
     
  19. controler

    controler Guest

  20. beetlejuice69

    beetlejuice69 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2005
    Posts:
    780
    Re: Freedom Lost?

    I wonder when the goverment is going to start curfews? All in the name of 9/11.
     
  21. Trooper

    Trooper Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Posts:
    2,825
    Re: Freedom Lost?

    I know right. :rolleyes:

    Stay inside citizen, bad things will happen to you otherwise! :rolleyes:

    Please...
     
  22. unreal

    unreal Guest

    Re: Freedom Lost?

    This is friggin' unreal and makes me sick just reading about this garbage. I can't believe we're seeing the end of freedom in the US. But that's what it looks like. There's no way we'll ever get those freedoms back they just stole from us. This is a great loss for all Americans. A truly sad time.

    There may not be any civil liberties violations at this time, but what's to stop it from happening in the future? And it will happen, I would bet the bank on it now.

    And on top of all this they want to change the way the president is elected so they can run more than two terms. Actually, so they can run, and be elected an unlimited amount of times!

    <snip>

    edited to remove the most excessive political comments - Detox
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 22, 2005
  23. Detox

    Detox Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2002
    Posts:
    8,507
    Location:
    Texas, USA
    That's enough of the political editorialization. Spy1 started this as a merely informative thread which is why it remained, but others have changed the tone so we're going to have to lock it up for now until admin might decide it should be reopened.
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.