Is Privacy Dead?

Discussion in 'privacy general' started by lotuseclat79, Sep 11, 2012.

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  1. lotuseclat79

    lotuseclat79 Registered Member

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  2. mattbiernat

    mattbiernat Registered Member

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    not gonna work if you use VPN. so I don't think privacy is dead, you just have to pay for it now.
     
  3. Pedro

    Pedro Registered Member

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    I'm starting to believe that we'll only achieve minimum privacy with i2p, tor, or a similar project.

    A whole new layer on top on the existing internet, or something new like that new Meshnet.
    I can see people giggling, but if i were a dissident, refugee, something to say about corruption, or just wanting to be able to speak freely, it seems the political debate is almost lost.

    Am i being too pessimistic?
     
  4. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    VPNs, Tor, I2P, Anonet and other "layer on top on the existing nternet" are all vulnerable where they connect to the Internet. Long-range hotspot connections and meshnets would help, but connections can be traced, and equipment discovered. I've read that some of the Mexican drug gangs are using meshnets. But they have lots of money, and can coerce cooperation for node placement.

    I suppose that one could use covert channels, perhaps in packet timing. But bandwidth would be minimal. And connections through the Internet would still be needed, and would be obvious.
     
  5. Pedro

    Pedro Registered Member

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    That's why i mention i2p. i2p was not made to use an exit node, although you can. And tor could be used in the same manner, i think.

    It was done so everything is done inside the i2p network.
     
  6. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    Yes, that's true. But observers (your ISP, your VPN provider, etc) can see that you're connecting to other I2P nodes. Maybe they don't know, at first, that they're I2P nodes. But they could figure it out.
     
  7. Pedro

    Pedro Registered Member

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    Of course. But short of banning that protocol, they would have to break it to see what you doing/posting/reading.
     
  8. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    In some places, even using I2P might lead to prison or worse.
     
  9. PJC

    PJC Very Frequent Poster

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    -There is NO Privacy!
    -There is NO such a thing!
     
  10. silat

    silat Registered Member

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    Was it ever alive?
     
  11. SweX

    SweX Registered Member

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    I think it's really sad that if we in the future have no choice but to use VPNs, TOR etc etc to get some kind of privacy at all. :ninja:
     
  12. LockBox

    LockBox Registered Member

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    We can choose to fight for freedom (privacy) or choose (by accepting there's "no privacy") to live in a surveillance state (lack of freedom).

    Freedom=Privacy
    Privacy=Freedom
     
  13. encus

    encus Registered Member

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    In this high tech era, bloody yes!
     
  14. Mman79

    Mman79 Registered Member

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    1. Warrantless wiretapping.

    2. Police legally entitled to search mobile devices if you're stopped for any reason.

    3. ISP monitoring by the end of the year in the name of piracy control.

    4. Government interference in even the most mundane aspects of lives (see the school food regulations, the banning of "big sodas" in some cities.)

    5. Possible "tagging" of schoolchildren to track their whereabouts.

    6. Google.

    7. The obsession with social media and being considered risky or suspicious if you're not involved (I talked to a major employer around my area recently, she made it clear she would "not likely" hire anyone who didn't have a Facebook. She wondered what they were hiding.)

    I can keep going down the list, but you tell me whether we still live in a privacy-respecting world.

    Tor is absolutely useless to the masses as it is right now. There is no possible way the majority would suffer its slowness for every day activities and use. I'm not even certain it can be considered safe considering we have no real way of knowing who we're connecting to ("nixnix" or NSA, NATO C3 come up often) and Tor of course has weaknesses like any technology. VPNs are actually less safe than Tor because it's easier to analyze and you are generally relying on one company to not only secure the VPN, but also to not log too much or turn over everything should LEA "come a knockin".
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2012
  15. shuverisan

    shuverisan Registered Member

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    From HOPE 2006. Steve Rambam - Privacy is Dead, Get Over It.

    -http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3079242748023143842-
     
  16. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    "We" never lived in a "privacy-respecting world". Privacy has, from time to time, in some places, been considered a fundamental right. But governments generally want to know who their citizens are, and what they're doing. And businesses want to make money.

    If you want privacy, you must take it. You can help others too, if you're so inclined.
     
  17. Mman79

    Mman79 Registered Member

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    My post was admittedly from a U.S point of view, where this "right" is being eroded with a near "too bad, so sad" attitude. In the rest of the world, there are places who wish they had even a percentage of the freedoms and rights we are still managing to hold on to for now.

    Businesses survived for quite a long time before tracking became an epidemic, they still could. So I have absolutely zero understanding for them for wanting to digest information like a starving dog and wanting to know every location we visit physically in the real world or online.

    I most certainly can help others, until these entities decide to not accept the tools to do so in compromise. Look at Iran who has made its own "internet", if anyone thinks that can't happen in the rest of the world, they're nuts. Look at Do Not Track, it has already failed before it even became adopted fully. The tools are still there, but they are becoming increasingly ineffective either through technology advances or legislation.

    No one has ever had total privacy, no. But our past is certainly looking better than our future where privacy is concerned.
     
  18. noone_particular

    noone_particular Registered Member

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    "Do Not Track" never was a tool. In reality, it's nothing more than a polite request inserted into the headers that never had any means of enforcement. Actual tools are available, but like many other things, they require a certain amount of skill on the users part. Just as with security apps/policies, there's a tradeoff between effectiveness and convenience.
    A partial list of effective tools that can be used individually and in combination:
    Firewalls, software and hardware.
    Browser extensions, NoScript, Flashblock, ghostery, request policy, Prefbar, etc
    Local web filtering proxies, proxomitron, privoxy
    proxy services, VPNs, Tor
    Sandboxie, set to delete on browser exit.
    Virtual operating systems, as above.
    Eraser type programs configured to wipe areas used by browsers on demand.
    Hosts file.
    Peerblock with custom lists.
    Any tool that can make specific areas of the file system read only.

    Tools like these are still effective.
     
  19. lotuseclat79

    lotuseclat79 Registered Member

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    Big Brother Surveillance Secrets Have Practically Outlawed Privacy.

    -- Tom
     
  20. noone_particular

    noone_particular Registered Member

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    Then how is it not paranoid on their part to feel that they need to spy on their own people? Same old double standard.
     
  21. mant

    mant Registered Member

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    Yeah, do you see FCC sticker on all of your devices gadget or keyboard?

    Even on wireless router clearly states: This device complies with Part 15 of the FCC Rules. Operation is subject to the following two conditions: (1) This device may not cause harmful interference, and (2) This device must accept any interference received, including interference that may cause undesired operation.

    So if you mess with the government, suddenly your wireless device explode (interference from the space satellite).





    :doubt:
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2012
  22. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    Actually, "accept" here means "tolerate". So it might stop working, but it wouldn't explode ;)
     
  23. Xorg23

    Xorg23 Registered Member

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    Why we need privacy at all? We all are social creatures, we need to be with someone and we give our data so easy if someone know how to ask. If you want to keep your privacy in the web - just create real alter ego, not just nick but everything from pictures to fake accounts and mails, then let them "live". You can always try to protect yourself with firewall's but i don't trust them. Do you?
     
  24. jo3blac1

    jo3blac1 Registered Member

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    Anybody thought about spreading disinformation? Just to mess with the system create:
    - fake name
    - fake facebook with fake name
    - fake email address with fake name
    - let more than one person use your fake person to get provide fake tracking

    For real activities use:
    - VPN
    - real email address... etc...
     
  25. safeguy

    safeguy Registered Member

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    This is my opinion.

    Privacy is both a living dead and a compromise; at least for the majority.

    Be it in the virtual or physical world, even if we do not take into account the 'monitoring' or 'surveillance' done by someone or another, let's face it: some of us 'share' portions of our privacy - either out of pure willingness/choice or out of 'force' - meaning to say, we are left with little to no option or the ability to do just the opposite is out of the league for us. I'm not saying this is necessarily good or bad - the judge being ourselves, depending on our reasoning for the actions we take. Like most things in life - there's always 2 sides to a coin.
     
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