Introducing AX64 Time Machine - hybrid imaging/snapshot software

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by Isso, Jan 18, 2013.

  1. sukarof

    sukarof Registered Member

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    Thanks for the offer wajamus! Bought one.
    I havent been using AX64 for a long time but just started to evaluate it again. Its been working just fine, only a little glitch now that I upgraded to .528 from .499 the taskbar icon doesnt appear when I reboot after the upgrade. Time machine process is running but the taskbar icon is gone...Any ideas?

    *edit*
    Forget about the icon glitch, it wasnt a glitch, it just took some time for it to appear. :thumb:
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2014
  2. Gjbth

    Gjbth Registered Member

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    Well wajamus, no point in me sending you my logs for 499 & 526 as 528 seems to be working on both PC's now.

    However, when I first installed and run build 528 on both machines, I got the following error message when exiting AX64.

    'Microsoft Visual C+ Runtime Library'
    Runtime error TMAPP.exe
    R6025
    Pure Virtual Function Call

    Up to now I have only seen this error once on both PC's and that was when running AX64 immediately after updating to build 528, hasn't happened since
     
  3. MerleOne

    MerleOne Registered Member

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    Hi, Could someone update me about PerfectDisk 13 and AX64 TM V2 ( Build 528 ) compatibility ? Thanks !
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2014
  4. zfactor

    zfactor Registered Member

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    same as before with pd13. if you do a boot time defrag it will mess up your ax64 backups. i believe its okay as long as you dont do boot time (ill have to test more this week but i believe someone tested it somewhere in this thread i just dont remember who it was off the top of my head)
     
  5. MerleOne

    MerleOne Registered Member

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    Thanks. Any issue also with StealthPatrol ?
     
  6. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Re PD 13, the problem isn't that it just messes up the backup chain, but full restores before offline defrag can totally fail. That is totally unacceptable in an imaging program. When I tested that with V2, it was a problem for Shadow Protect, Macrium or IFW, only for AX64. So AX64 is a good snapshot program, but fails as an imaging program. The website is totally misleading on this.
     
  7. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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    Morning Pete! In looking at your quotes above, I can't see how the second one is justified if the first is also true. How can it possibly be a "good snapshot program" if the backup chain is compromised by PD13's BOOT Time defrag? Isn't the integrity of the entire backup chain required to allow it to be a good snapshot program (with PERFECT DISK installed anyway)?
     
  8. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Of course you are correct. In my mind the snapshot(or time back and forth) is more of a short term thing, so when you do the defrag stuff you just start over, as opposed to longer term image restore. The reality from my previous testing is you really need to start over after the defrag period, and anything prior to that is broken.
     
  9. MerleOne

    MerleOne Registered Member

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    Hi, I am not sure to fully understand what you say, and I would not like missing something.
    Do you mean offlined defrag (aka defrag at boot time) messes the TM V2 chain of backups and requires to create a new chain. Is offline defrag the only cause of conflict ? I never use this feature, just defrag when Windows has started.
    Thanks.
     
  10. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi Merle

    I don't remember. But you should be able to test that. I think the only impact was the next snapshot took the same time as the the baseline. If I read you correctly you are defragging at every windows start. That is probably a waste of time, with any imaging program. Say you take a image today, and then every day you defrag. If you restore today's image, your disk will be like it was today, and all the defragging was undone

    Pete

    But any "Imaging" program should be able to handle anything on the disk, including offline defrag. Period.
     
  11. MerleOne

    MerleOne Registered Member

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    Sorry for being unclear : I only use defragmentation when Windows has started, online if you prefer, but not at every start. And yes, it does increase the size/time of subsequent snapshots since they are sector based.
     
  12. SanyaIV

    SanyaIV Registered Member

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  13. michaelwileman

    michaelwileman Registered Member

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    With slow restore V2 doing a warm restore is it possible that when computer re-boots at that point there are no drivers be it USB 3 ACHI or whatever.
     
  14. Adric

    Adric Registered Member

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    Are there any other options for automatic backups other than on or off?
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2014
  15. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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    Adric... no additional options. This from the v2 announcement earlier in the thread.

    IV. New merging and purging schedule
    Following a similar schedule to Apple's own backup solution, AX64 Time Machine now keeps: hourly backups for the past 24 hours, daily backups for the past month, and weekly backups until your backup drive is full.


    What happens when the drive is full?
    As your backup drive begins to fill up to its capacity, Time Machine intelligently deletes the oldest backups to make room for newer ones. In the future, we are planning to implement an optional "Notify user when older backups are deleted".
     
  16. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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    Michael... AX Time Machine doesn't remove any drivers specifically during its restore process unless the drivers weren't there when the retored snapshot was taken... it doesn't work at that level. It works at the disk block level, not the file level, in all its operations. It would be almost impossible to perform a restoration and leave specific files out of the process.
     
  17. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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    Could be... just deselect your SSD from the process and see if it makes a difference over time. I deselected mine when I installed W8 and don't do any scheduled "optimization" on the other drives either... only MANUAL when needed.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
  18. michaelwileman

    michaelwileman Registered Member

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    Thanks,what i was trying to say is when windows loads it loads drivers USB ACHI Graphics Etc when you do a warm restore the computer re-boots these drivers would not be there at that point ,does time machine add Usb ACHI drivers as it enters the recovery environment as these would be needed for external drives etc to give full performance this is why i thought may slow things,if i do a hot restore it is quite quick but a warm restore very slow.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
  19. SanyaIV

    SanyaIV Registered Member

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    After reading I disabled the schedule through the disk fragmentation program thingy and I then created a custom scheduled task that gives the correct re-trim command to my SSD whenever i log in (So generally once a day)

    Does trim on an SSD cause the snapshots to become larger? By how much?
    (A second off-topic question: Does trim affect the lifetime of the SSD and does using it once a day like I do cause any negative side effects?)
     
  20. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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    Well my first comment would be... WARM restore should not be that much slower than HOT restore. Once your system has BOOTed into the WARM restore environment (may take 45-60 sec. typically), the balance of the operation should be very similar.

    That said, a quick description as to what's really going on in the WARM restore operation, from the 2nd one on (I'll explain later). Your system is being reBOOTed, not into your normal LIVE Windows, but a special "external version of Windows that AX Time Machine has built for you to BOOT from. This special version of Windows is actually a melded version of your standard WinRE environment (Windows RECOVERY ENVIRONMENT) along with any special drivers your system configuration requires... these drivers are copied from your LIVE Windows environment and integrated into this special WARM restore WinRE environment when it's created (which happens only during the 1st WARM restore operation... after that, it just uses the created original special WinRE config). This special WinRE is saved on your SYSTEM volume and used for all WARM restores.

    Following the restore operation, your restored LIVE Windows environment is BOOTed into for operation and the specially created WinRE WARM restore environment remains on disk as a file to be used for the next WARM restore. The "I'll explain later" note from above refers specifically to the first WARM restore you do. If the special WinRE WARM restore environment had never been created before, the WARM restore process needs to create it for the first time on its way out of the LIVE Windows system into the WARM restore environment... this adds even more time to the first WARM restore.

    Since the HOT restore process always uses the existing LIVE Windows to perform its restore (at some possible risk of failure), the time required to create the special WinRE WARM restore environment and to BOOT into it are never seen during the HOT restore process, making it a bit faster in its operation.

    EDIT: I will add the comment that if the actual DATA restoration part of the process (after the WARM restore environment has loaded and the data is being restored) is significantly different in time than the same under HOT restore (under the same exact operation), this should be brought to the attention of the developers... it's NOT supposed to happen this way, that is my understanding.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
  21. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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    SanyaIV, even reTRIMming an SSD isn't required daily at all. Normally, once the SSD is in SYNC with LIVE Windows operations, it manages itself very well during normal file structure operations, automatically TRIMming when required following DELETions and/or disk space deALLOCATIONs. The only time I ever re-TRIM an SSD is when I know I've made some major changes to the Windows file system through external operations (the main one being a reIMAGING of the system, if required). Since external file structure operations (ones out of the LIVE Windows environment) cannot be seen by the LIVE system, the SYNC between the SSD and the LIVE system gets out of whack... nothing goes wrong, it's just that the SSD no longer completely understands which data blocks are real and which are no longer needed, that's the information that the TRIM command provides to the SSD. Since TRIM is not active during a typical image restoration operation, it would be a good thing to have the SSD brought back in SYNC with the LIVE Windows system... that's why I do a MANUAL re-TRIMMing of the SSD when I do things like re-IMAGING and/or re-PARTITIONING, I DO NOT defrag a SSD at all.

    TRIMming an SSD should not cause your snapshots to change at all. The snapshot is based on in-use file structure and the position of each USED block. TRIMming does not change either of these as far as LIVE Windows file structure is concerned. It only tells the SSD which disk blocks are really in use and which ones are no longer needed so that the SSD may use its internal Garbage Collection mechanisms to re-order/re-arrange USED data in order to increase its efficiency in CELL management which will automatically lengthen the life of the SSD over time. To summarize... TRIM is very good for an SSD and doesn't hurt anything along the way, but, unnecessary TRIM is really just a waste of system resources.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
  22. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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    In addition to my comment to SanyaIV, I realize that some folks may not completely understand the nature of an SSD, especially in the areas of its own internal space allocation. The SSD internal space allocation/position has nothing whatsoever to do with what Windows thinks is going on with its storage element.

    Windows deals in LBNs (Logical Block Numbers), and in the case of HDDs, its LBN has always mapped to a particular disk SECTOR located physically on the HDD. With SSDs that changed drastically. Windows continues to use LBNs in dealing with its file structure allocation of storage blocks, but when applying this to an SSD, the SSD itself contains an additional layer of knowledge about where the actual data resides internally and Windows knows nothing of this data management. That's why the SSD, via TRIM, can re-organize its data locations internally and Windows will know nothing of where things are really located in that sucker... Windows still sees LBNs (which it thinks are SECTORs on a storage element).

    This is why the SSD can clean itself up internally by relocating data elements (bytes) within its NAND CELLs (blocks of bytes) for efficiency and Windows doesn't need to know anything about that.

    PS: sorry for being so "windy" above.
     
  23. SanyaIV

    SanyaIV Registered Member

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    Thanks Froggie~
     
  24. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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    You're very welcome...
     
  25. michaelwileman

    michaelwileman Registered Member

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    Thanks for info i will send off logs,on average a Hot Restore takes as you stated approx 30-40 seconds,but a Warm Restore varies can take 3 to 15 mins.
     
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