Internet Explorer Faces CERTAIN Extinction

Discussion in 'other software & services' started by securityuser, Jan 22, 2005.

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  1. securityuser

    securityuser Guest

  2. Jimbob1989

    Jimbob1989 Registered Member

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    I would like to think that wilders has something to do with people moving to better browsers. Most of its members are often suggesting replacements to Internet Explorer.

    Jimbob
     
  3. Jimbob1989

    Jimbob1989 Registered Member

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    Would it not be better for the computer users in general. Microsoft is practically a manoploy and so does not have to be particually competitive in its prices or developement rate. If it was to become less powerfull then prices might fall :D

    Jimbob
     
  4. Ronin

    Ronin Guest

    I don't think so. The effect I suspect is minor. Many people here are already early adopters anyway. Of course, the random newbie that blunders in do get recommended alternative browsers , but they are already security conscious anyway so would eventually use it .

    The challenge though is to convert the huge majority who are not interested at all. For these people , Wilders and similar forums have almost zero effect.
     
  5. Jimbob1989

    Jimbob1989 Registered Member

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    Hey.. I study Business and Economics :D

    Jimbob
     
  6. Jimbob1989

    Jimbob1989 Registered Member

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    I understand that you can secure IE, however since I have started using FireFox, I don't think I will ever go back because I prefer FireFox for so many reasons.

    Jimbob
     
  7. ROnin

    ROnin Guest

    What's the ploy again?

    Bill gates's ploy is to make IE insecure straight out of the box, to make people hunt for ad-hoc patchs from third parties that they didnt know existed and wouldnt dare to use if they knew it existed and which leaves them vulnerable to critical unpatched exploits anyway?

    Sure that makes a lot of sense :)
     
  8. securityuser

    securityuser Guest

    You ask, "And who wouldn't?" Plenty of people. More and more everyday are choosing a far superior browser, a safer browser that's not integrated into the Windows operating system and one that doesn't require all of your tweaks to make it safe, (like it ought to be in the first place). It's called Firefox. Actually that's pretty funny asking "Who wouldn't" want to use IE. It's an old-fashioned browser that lacks feature after feature found in Firefox, security issues aside. I think the question is why would you want to use IE?
     
  9. snowbound

    snowbound Retired Moderator

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    A few simple questions.

    Has IE, basically been discontinued?

    Is it being updated anymore?

    Has it been totally abandoned?



    snowbound
     
  10. slammer_JvA

    slammer_JvA Registered Member

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    Hm, now there's an interesting battle at last.
    Foxy! I would almost cheer :D

    Especially agree with the final comment of Patrick overhere.

    Let's just see what happens in the following months.
    This could well be the start of something promising; one way or the other.

    Meanwhile, I have to say I'm sold. And will definitely stick with my FOX for now. BG & his boys & girls will have to come up with some pretty serious flirtations (= improvements) to get me moving back again.
    Sadly, I haven't convinced my girlfriend and her pc yet...:( :D

    :)

    regards,
    slammer

    P.S. never been much of donater, but am seriously considering this one in Holland...
     

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    Last edited: Jan 22, 2005
  11. Ailric

    Ailric Guest

    If IE goes extinct, then Firefox will have a monopoly. A monopoly that was funded by AOL/Time Warner. So much for the little guy.

    People have the choice to use what they want. Internet Explorer has the advantage of being simple and compatible with just about all websites. With it's built-in popup blocker this browser suits the vast majorities needs.

    Firefox is free and has some nice features but is slow to load (especially with many plugins) and takes some work to configure to your liking.

    Opera is adware (NOT spyware) is is pretty good out of the box but it also needs configuring to ones' tastes.
     
  12. snowbound

    snowbound Retired Moderator

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    It will take years for ppl. to realize IE is unsecure....

    Don't matter what we say here. Buy a comp, MS, IE is there.




    snowbound
     
  13. securityuser

    securityuser Guest

    Not quite. The Mozilla Project receives NO FUNDS from AOL/Time Warner. You are confusing the Netscape(AOL) agreement to release the code and the Mozilla Foundation to bring about the Mozilla Project.

    The Mozilla Foundation is a California non-profit corporation exempt from federal income taxation under IRC 501(c)3. Donations are tax deductible.
    http://www.mozilla.org/foundation/donate.html

    Full details here http://www.mozilla.org/roadmap.html

    Download Firefox here http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/

    Open-source will eliminate paid software, except for highly specialized nicheware within 3-5 years. Bookmark this post.
     
  14. Ronin

    Ronin Guest

    You haven't used firefox or any alternative browser at all? Darn, there goes your creditability when you talk about anything with regards to the "browser wars". :)


    Yours is. It's just less so than the normal default settings.


    I wonder how long it took someone of your knowledge and ability and most importantly interest took to research and by trial and error learn what security products to use to secure IE such that it is less vulnerable.

    But I wager it's more than 2 minutes!
     
  15. Ronin

    Ronin Guest

    LOL, looks like we have a super open source zealot on our hands , boys or a ........
     
  16. Paranoid2000

    Paranoid2000 Registered Member

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    Unless your IE "modifications" included reverse engineering it to determine its inner workings, carrying out a code analysis and security audit to determine its weaknesses and specifying, writing, testing and auditing the patches to fix those vulnerabilities then you have not made IE secure at all - you have, at best, just made it less insecure. Microsoft have been patching IE for several years without making it secure (although you can argue that security was never their primary concern, more of tying IE in so tightly with Windows as to remove users' choice over having or using it) so the idea of someone reaching this Holy Grail with 2 minutes of point-and-click work does raise a certain amount of scepticism.

    Just to make a comparison, check the Secunia vulnerability lists for Internet Explorer (20 unpatched at time of posting) and compare them with those for Firefox (5) and Opera (4). The most serious unpatched vulnerability for IE (Security Zone Bypass and Address Bar Spoofing) effectively makes the security zone system useless - you have to set all zones to High security to avoid this which means no more trusted sites, having to login repeatedly at forums like this (cookies are blocked with High security) and forgetting about online banking or other activities requiring cookies, javascript, etc.
    Unfortunately that choice is rather skewed by IE being present while Firefox or Opera have to be downloaded. Until the powers-that-be force MS to include other browsers (or make IE an optional download), most people will use IE "by default" rather than "by informed choice". And it takes far more than a popup blocker to prevent IE from being used as a spyware installation vehicle.

    As for IE being simple - take a look at how its security is handled in comparison to Opera or Firefox. I would suggest that Security Zones make things far more complex, especially when you need to alter the default settings. And Opera/Firefox's cookie options seem far simpler than the P3P setup that IE offers.
     
  17. Ailric

    Ailric Guest

    Until the powers-that-be force MS to include other browsers (or make IE an optional download), most people will use IE "by default" rather than "by informed choice".

    If IE was an optional download, how would you download it? Government regulation... the key to higher technology. :) Complaining that Windows ships with IE is like complaining that Levi's ship with pockets.

    Some people would like Microsoft to ship without IE, OE, Dial-up Networking, Media Player, etc. Windows was designed for ease of use for the average user, not a computer geeks dream. This is what made Windows attractive in the first place, attractive to new buyers and to computer criminals.
     
  18. jag1967

    jag1967 Registered Member

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    Interesting thread.
    I doubt IE will go extinct, unless as others have said, that it is disembedded from the MS OS, otherwise everyday users are unlikely to migrate to another browser.
    And we are talking about everyday users, who at best will have an AV and a FW (which may not be configured correcty), and probably supplied when they bought their pc.

    And an everyday user is unlikely to 'secure' IE - however easy it is - because they won't really be interested/bothered/or understand the need to.
    Most 'ordinary' pc users I know who use a MS OS, hardly ever think of security, and are shocked when you d/l & run something like Spybot or adware on their pc's

    jag
     
  19. Paranoid2000

    Paranoid2000 Registered Member

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    If Windows shipped without a browser then the Internet Connection Wizard could easily include a "browser download" step listing all the main choices. As for Levi's with pockets analogy, I'd say a more appropriate one would be if every Levi's came with a garish T-Shirt - which was then glued, stitched and riveted onto the jeans to prevent you from wearing anything else with them.
    Ease of use? You need to get an Apple Macintosh for that! Windows really has been designed to try to be "all things to all people" so you have multiple interfaces and several methods of doing things. This has resulted in a far more complex interface and users having far less control over their system.
     
  20. Jimbob1989

    Jimbob1989 Registered Member

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    jag1967 if you think you can out think Paranoid2000, be carefull as Paranoid2000 is as sharp as they come :)

    Jimbob
     
  21. jag1967

    jag1967 Registered Member

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    Jimbob, I wouldn't dream of it mate ;)

    jag :D
     
  22. lynchknot

    lynchknot Registered Member

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    stuck in old dog, new tricks mode? There is much more to Firefox than security issues.

    Anyway for those who miss IE preload -

    Starts Fx in one to two seconds on my PC (loads 20+mb). More info and download: http://matt.sixxgate.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=92


    http://img114.exs.cx/img114/7186/about9nq.jpg

    http://img97.exs.cx/img97/7813/preloader9ml.jpg
     
  23. Ailric

    Ailric Guest

    "As for Levi's with pockets analogy, I'd say a more appropriate one would be if every Levi's came with a garish T-Shirt - which was then glued, stitched and riveted onto the jeans to prevent you from wearing anything else with them."

    Windows does not prevent anyone from installing any web browser. I use Opera myself but I believe people shouldn't be forced to use Firefox or be called a fool. This "take back the web" nonsense is nothing more than a buch of kids who like to feel part of a trend. Just read reviews at Download.com, it's ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, I like Firefox and would choose it over IE for it's extended usefulness but the overzeal show by it's users is just silly.

    WindowsXP is as easy as any OS available. Anyone can be up and running in minutes, that's why it's so popular. Mac and OSX is an elegant product but was never made for the mainstream. Apple is happy to be a niche company and except for the iPod has produced only boutique items.
     
  24. HandsOff

    HandsOff Registered Member

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    I am torn!

    On the one hand, sooner or later, if the exploitation trend continues, no one who has internet explorer installed will have a functioning computer

    On the other hand the vast majority of computer users seem to be content with bloated, deceptive programs that track their computer browsing, not to mention media viewing habits and do whatever they wish to do with the information.

    I am guessing IE will die, and my vision takes it even further. In the not too distant future we will still use windows, because we have so much highly developed applications. However, somehow it will be physically isolated from the internet and everyone will be using Linux for browsing the internet. If the steady stream of hardware advances ever slows down then M$ will suffer there fate very quickly. Thats because of Linux programs will probalbly run much faster than windows counterparts, once fully developed. And the user interface is not a hard thing to copy and improve upon.

    - HandsOff
     
  25. LockBox

    LockBox Registered Member

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    Ailric: I agree about the zealots. However, I see them on both sides of the browser wars. I like Firefox and Opera and wouldn't use IE on principle. But I'm not an evangelist about alternatives. On the other hand, I am shocked by how many stand by IE as if it's some awesome piece of software worth saving at any cost. That's just not true in any shape or form. P2k's earlier post was a good summation.

    The article on MarketingShift.com pointed to by the original post was fascinating. I can see it working just as they said. IE is Microsoft's Edsel now. It's fast becoming a joke and soon to be a parody of itself. Even Ford recovered from the Edsel and I have no doubts Microsoft will recover from Internet Explorer. But, I agree with the article, it will more than likely be something else. IE has been thoroughly discredited in the eyes of too many industry insiders.
    Gerard Morentzy

    .
     
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