Incremental same size as Original image??

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by Michael23, Jun 30, 2005.

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  1. Michael23

    Michael23 Registered Member

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    I am just getting to know True Backup, and I have (another) question.

    I successfully created a "secure Zone" and made an image of my hd on a second (new) drive. All seems successful, and I can browse the image as a drive with the 'explore image' function. So far so good.

    Now I want to schedule incremental backups on a daily basis.
    To test, I wanted to run an incremental before I set the scheduling, just to see how it works.

    So - I deleted one file and added one file, just as a test case, and set about the steps for an incremental image... same drive, to the secure zone, 'incremental' selected... and as far as I can tell it is starting over, reimageing the whole thing!

    \
    The initial image took 90 minutes, and this one shows the same amount of estimated time for the incremental! I thought an 'incremental' image would be small and fast, just the files that have changed.

    Am I wrong here? Does it in fact save a whole new image each and every time?
     
  2. rrssss

    rrssss Registered Member

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    In my experience with True Image, an imcrimental backup takes about one third less time, for example, it a full backup takes 100 minutes, an incrimental backup would take roughly 66 minutes. But this is only a rough estimation on my part.

    Roy
     
  3. howie123

    howie123 Registered Member

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    I find that my increments, like rssss's take about 2/3 the time of a full image. One thing to note, though, is that if you do a full defragmentation of the drive before you perform an incremental image, file sizes will often be large, sometimes up to the size of your full image. This is because TI images every changed sector since the last image so if a lot of files are moved during the defragmentation run, your increment will be much larger than if you hadn't defragmented. I find my increments are normally much smaller than a full image and average less than 10% of the full image's size.
     
  4. Michael23

    Michael23 Registered Member

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    as stated in my original post, all I did was remove one file, add one file, and try again... no defrag, no nothing else!

    any more ideas?
     
  5. Michael23

    Michael23 Registered Member

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    to add to this bundle of fun, <sarcasm>
    I just tried to 'explore' the secure zone... and I get the error that the 'secure zone does not have any images'

    The file size of the secure zone is correct, and the free space reflects the size of the image I created, but now I can't get to it !?!

    This is getting really, really frustrating.
    I am quickly losing my enthusiasm, and my faith in T.I.
    Can anyone help me get this right so I can get back to work?
    Even so, I am not sure, at this point, that I will be able to trust that my backups are secure.
     
  6. Michael23

    Michael23 Registered Member

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    and there is more...

    I rebooted, and now I can access the secure zone images.
    however, T.I. shows only 5 gig of the 20 gig SZ as free space... the initial image was 9 gigs (the data on the drive being imaged is less than 10)... why would I have a 5 or 6 gig 'incremental' file?


    AND - it appears when 'exploring' the incremental files that if I choose to mount and explore the most recent increment, I will see the entire image, including the original complete image, as one solid directory - correct?

    Thanks for your input - I am hanging in there...
     
  7. Michael23

    Michael23 Registered Member

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    Even Stranger...

    Even stranger...

    upon reboot again, the 'image explorer' dialog inside of TI shows a 20 gig Secure Zone, with 9 gigs free... this sounds about right to me.

    However, once mounted, Windows (my computer) shows the drive as a 20 gig drive with only 5 gigs free...

    ***If someone would be so kind as to read through this string and feed me a little information, it would be greatly appreciated. I really want to have confidence in this program... I need a 'set it and forget it' scheduled back up that I can rely on...

    So far there are a few things that are making me a little 'insecure' !
     
  8. TonioRoffo

    TonioRoffo Registered Member

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    Incrementals are really really weak in TI. They work, but are slow, large. You wouldn't really mind, unless you've ran programs from the "other" guys, "the dark side".

    If you do incrementals with "the others" often, you barely have time to blinks your eyes before it's done. The incrementals are so small you wouldn't believe it. In small business environments (about 10 users with their own profiles, and even Exchange running, mainly word/excel and a old DOS accounting program) - after 30 incrementals, all the incrementals *together* are still smaller than the base backup.

    In TI, you should be happy to reach 5 days before the added incrementals are larger than the base BU. And they take quite a long time to create.
     
  9. SSK

    SSK Registered Member

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    Re: Even Stranger...

    The whole purpose of the Secure Zone (SZ) is to be hidden from normal windows operation. That way, images in the SZ are better protected against windows problems. To do that, the part that is designated SZ will be hidden from windows (So a disk of 20 GB with a 8 GB SZ will show up in windows as a 12 GB disk).

    The SZ can be used with the Acronis Startup Recovery Manager. With this option, pressing F11 on boot will open the True Image program to restore/create images.

    Disadvantage of the SZ is that it is not possible to move images to and from it, and it will overwrite the oldest full image if it runs out of space (even if the image being made at that moment is an incremental to the removed full image).

    If you want to store images on external media, you can't use the SZ. You can burn images directly to CD, and with to some extend to DVD (see Acronis knowledge base / forum for help on that). :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2005
  10. Menorcaman

    Menorcaman Retired Moderator

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    IMHO, it isn't worth creating incremental images unless you're consuming a really LARGE amount of used disk space. The mere fact of opening and closing Windows, plus anything else you may have running in your Task bar, is enough to significantly change the thumbprint between images. This will have a greater proportionate effect on smaller images than on really large ones.

    Regards
     
  11. Michael23

    Michael23 Registered Member

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    Re: Even Stranger...

     
  12. Michael23

    Michael23 Registered Member

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    Re: MENORCAMAN - Incremental same size as Original image??

    Thank you for your response, Menorcaman.

    SO, perhaps I should just forget the incremental thing, and have a new, complete image made every time?

    My whole point with T.I. is to find a TRUE backup solution that will keep me safe from worry on an automated, reliable basis.

    What is your suggestion in general? SHould I use the S.Z. or not? I just want to find a reliable backup method that I can 'set and forget' !
     
  13. Michael23

    Michael23 Registered Member

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    Re: TONIO Incremental same size as Original image??


    Tonio - thanks for the reply. This sounds like a solid endorsment for Gh**t !

    But, I already have T.I. and I would still like to believe it can handle what I want... SO - if you dont mind, what is your suggestion for the best way to set an automated backup?

    Should I use the Secure Zone? Should I use incrementals at all?
    I want a reliable 'set it and forget it' solution...

    thanks.
     
  14. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

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    Re: MENORCAMAN - Incremental same size as Original image??

    Hello Michael23,

    Thank you for choosing Acronis Disk Backup Software.

    When you create the image to Acronis Secure Zone and there is not enough space in it Acronis True Image will delete the oldest image in Acronis Secure Zone. However, if you create the incremental image to the only full image stored there and there is not enough space you will get the "Out of space" error message. The details of how the images in Acronis Secure Zone are deleted are described in User's Guide (Chapter 3, point 3.2.3).

    As for incremental images, please note that operating system uses some files constantly even when you do not open any files or folders. This results in fact that some data is constantly changes and sector content changes as well. The great effect has all defragmenting software that may work at the background.

    Thank you.
    --
    Ilya Toytman
     
  15. ugc

    ugc Registered Member

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    Ok, here is your answer as to why the incremental is the same size as the full.

    If you make a full backup then....

    situation #1: make incrementals, your incrementals are small compared to the full backup.

    situation #2: restore that backup, then make incrementals, your first incremental backup will be the same size as the full backup, and every incremental thereafter will be smaller until your restore again.

    Why?....don't know, but that is what happens.
     
  16. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

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    Hello ugc,

    Thank you for choosing Acronis Disk Backup Software.

    This happens because Acronis True Image restores sectors not to the places they were when the image was taken. Only the important sectors which place is significant are placed to where they were before. Briefly, the restoration gives you the fragmented drive (or partition), fragments being stored not in the different way compared to the state of the drive you had before.

    Thank you.
    --
    Ilya Toytman
     
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