IFW - Differential Failure

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by puff-m-d, Dec 8, 2011.

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  1. puff-m-d

    puff-m-d Registered Member

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    Hello all,

    I am trialling IFW along side RBRx which I already have. Full backups seem to work perfectly along with validation. When I try to do a differential backup, I get an error as I go through the setup screens before the backup starts. Attached you will find a screen-shot of what stage I am at when the error occurs along with the error. I am on Vista Home Premium 64 bit backing up to an external USB hard drive. Any help or ideas would be appreciated.
     

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  2. MerleOne

    MerleOne Registered Member

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    Hi,
    This type of error occurs when the source drive has been modified in such a way that a diff is not possible : for instance the partition size or boundaries have been changed. Usually there is not much to do, except performing a new full image.
     
  3. puff-m-d

    puff-m-d Registered Member

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    Hi MerleOne,

    I hope this does not sound too ignorant... Does you answer make sense with scenario? I make a full backup with IFW. Immediately when it finishes I try to do a differential backup. The backup still has the same error. Also my backup drive only consists of one partition and none of the sizes or boundaries are being changed intentionally by me. Sorry if I do not quite understand your reply.
     
  4. MerleOne

    MerleOne Registered Member

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    I just say IFW doesn't recognize the source drive as being the same as the one used for the full image. I don't know the reason. Maybe it's due to RBx ? There are many people on Wilders that use both, I am sure someone will offer you more help.

    Also, you should try Terabyteunlimited support, they do answer very quickly and stay with you until the issue is resolved (when possible).
     
  5. Scott W

    Scott W Registered Member

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    Kent,

    I reported the same issue 3-weeks ago, along with some other problems! You might also read the ensuing posts in that thread pertaining to my IFW issues...

    Scott
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2011
  6. puff-m-d

    puff-m-d Registered Member

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    I have also been in contact with TeraByte and was given a solution of using a "/relax" option. More information on how to do this can be found in the IFW manual under the ifw.ini and global parameters section. Unfortunately this fix did not help me. I am now awaiting another suggestion (hopefully :D ) from TeraByte or here. Thanks for the help so far. If I find out any other possible or working solutions I will post back here.
     
  7. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Kent,

    Can you do a diff a few hours after the base image, rather than immediately after?

    I had a similar issue with IFW last year (when imaging an Ubuntu partition) and TeraByte Support had an explanation which I didn't quite understand. Something to do with minimal changes on a fragmented partition. The next version of IFW worked fine.

    I'd contact Support.

    Edit... Just saw your latest post.
     
  8. puff-m-d

    puff-m-d Registered Member

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    The most recent attempts at a differential were made 10 to 11 hours after the full backup was done. It was tried with the original ifw.ini file and then the two using the 2two different variants of the "/relax" parameter. All three failed with the aforementioned error. So I have waited but how long did they ask you to wait or was it a new version of IFW that solved your problem?
     
  9. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Kent,

    Support didn't ask me to wait. That was my idea from a few minutes ago. I was just thinking a few hours might be enough but 11 hours eliminates my idea.

    In retrospect my error was a little different from yours. I think my diff failed within seconds of commencing. Terabyte released a new version of IFW which fixed the problem.

    Have previous versions of IFW created diffs for you?
    Have you done a recent defrag? I mean prior to the Base image.

    Edit.. I agree with MerleOne's reply but I can't see how it applies to you.
     
  10. puff-m-d

    puff-m-d Registered Member

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    I am running a trial to see if all works as expected before purchase. I am really interested in using it along side RBRx. Being a trial it is a new installation and I did both a online and offline defrag before installing. And yes it is different as I never actually make it to doing the differential as it fails looking for the source file, even after using the "/relax" parameter to ignore the disk signature and loosen up the criteria for finding the source.
     
  11. puff-m-d

    puff-m-d Registered Member

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    Hello all,

    Well I have a definitive answer from TeraByte:

    It looks like I was trying to fix something I could not as I do a raw image :ninja: >
     
  12. MerleOne

    MerleOne Registered Member

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    Glad you had an answer. However I think IFW should warn the user that the full backup was in raw mode, hence no diff afterwards.
     
  13. puff-m-d

    puff-m-d Registered Member

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    Very true. I had searched everywhere for an answer. I went through the manual several times and the FAQ's on their website too. I did not find anything stating the above. I may have missed it but in any case, it needs to be more prominent in the manual or FAQ's if it is indeed there, and if not then added to both.
     
  14. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    Do you have Rollback Rx installed when doing differential image?

    If yes, it wouldn't work.

    With Rollback Rx installed all imaging software only include the current snapshot of Rollback Rx.

    Only IFW does an especial imaging with all snapshots of Rollback Rx included. To do this, it has to meet certain conditions.

    1. You have to do all sectors imaging, including the unused sectors.
    2. In the registry under the UpperFilters, the PHYLOCK.sys (of IFW) should be the first entry and SHIELD.sys (of Rollback Rx) should be the second entry, and all other entries after that.
    3. And, some other conditions.

    The member called, TheRollbackFrog on this forum, who is called Froggie at HDS forum, has made a very good tutorial on this. It is his baby, and at HDS forum this is a Sticky. The Sticky is called, "Rollback RX" and "Image For Windows"... perfect together??"

    http://horizondatasys-forum.com/rollback-rx/2491-rollback-rx-image-windows-perfect-together.html

    Basically, you don't need to take an image if you are using Rollback Rx. In only one case Rollback Rx doesn't protect you, is in case of hard disk failure. Therefore, your imaging is for hard disk failure only.

    Imaging with Rollback Rx installed creates a lot of problems, especially when restoring the image. Each imaging software acts differently. Usually one runs into the following problems when restoring the image, if the image was done with Rollback Rx installed.

    1. Problem with MBR restoration, therefore one has to save a MBR without Rollback Rx installed.
    2. On restoration of image, Rollback Rx doesn't work and it has to be uninstalled and reinstalled.

    Conclusion: Therefore, it is more beneficial to have Rollback Rx uninstalled when doing hot imaging. Before imaging, one can also clean the hard disk, do defrag and so forth, while Rollback Rx is uninstalled.

    Best regards,

    KOR!
     
  15. Scott W

    Scott W Registered Member

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    Kent,

    Thanks for sharing the feedback from Terabyte regarding our identical problem. That explains it. I also have another IFW issue whereby when I run it from a WinPE boot disk it alerts me that Phylock isn't enabled (even though there's no need for Phylock when running IFW from a Live OS)! I have to go through two warning-screens before I can even procede! :thumbd:

    Fwiw, I have since started using Drive Snapshot which does not have either of those limitations. :thumb:

    Scott
     
  16. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    From your post you seems to be thoroughly confused with IFW and especially how IFW works with Rollback Rx.

    A. IFW as an portable application to work with Live Windows CD, you need three files to be put under a sub-directory which I call "IFW". These three files are less than 1.6 mb.

    1. IFW.ini - which contains the information about Phylock.ini
    2. IMAGEW.ini - which contains your registration information
    3. IMAGEW.exe - This is the executable file which runs IFW

    With the above three files you should be able to run IFW from Live Windows CD like you can run DS.

    B. To create a WinPE CD/DVD/USB/ISO of IFW, you need two things. BTW, you cannot create WinPE for DS.

    1. TBWinPE plug-ins, which you can download from here:

    http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/howto/tbwinpe_tutorial.htm

    2. WAIK files from Microsoft, which you can download from here:

    http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=5753

    Once you have the above two files you can create WinPE CD/DVD/USB/ISO for IFW. In fact with WAIK you can create WinPE for most imaging programs but not for for DS.

    C. Once you have WinPE of IFW, you can have IFW available as a "Recovery Console" as a boot menu with EasyBCD.


    Now with your confusion, especially how IFW works with Rollback Rx.

    A. If you want to HOT image with Rollback Rx installed and only want to capture the "most current snapshot" and not all the snapshots, including the baseline of Rollback Rx, you can use any imaging programs, including IFW.

    You use IFW without any registry modification and without doing RAW image (all sectors imaging including the unused sectors), just like DS. You will not have any restore problem and no problems with MRB either.

    B. If you want to HOT image with Rollback Rx installed and want to capture all the snapshots, including the baseline of Rollback Rx, you can only do this with IFW and with no other imaging programs and this includes DS.

    The reason you can do this only with IFW and with no other imaging programs is because IFW uses PHYLOCK to lock the disk where as all other imaging programs use VSS (from Microsoft) to lock the disk during HOT imaging. In this scenario you have to have to modify the registry and do a RAW image.

    Conclusion:

    1. IFW is the best for imaging while Rollback Rx is installed. As it gives you two options for imaging, (1) it allows you to make an image with the current snapshot of Rollback Rx OR (2) it allows you to make an image with all the snapshots of Rollback Rx, including the baseline of Rollback Rx too.

    2. It costs $10 USD per machine, whereas DS costs $52 per machine.

    3. You can build WinPE CD/DVD/USB/ISO with IFW but you cannot do this for DS.

    4. Once you have the WinPE of IFW, you can have the "Recovery Console" of IFW as boot menu and this cannot be done with DS.

    Best regards,

    KOR!
     
  17. Scott W

    Scott W Registered Member

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    KOR, where (specifically) am I confused?

    I'm completely aware of the steps to use IFW from a WinPE boot disk. But it just doesn't work properly for me in that it gives me inappropriate Phylock warnings and did not allow me to create differential raw images!

    I am completely aware of the various methods to backup an RB drive/partition and I have performed each type of backup successfully. I just happen to prefer NORMAL HOT IMAGING (WITHOUT UNINSTALLING RB) because this method backs up my current snaphot (perfectly) using the least amount of disk storage and in the least amount of time! Furthermore, this method allows me to use my PC while the backup is running! Furthermore, I do not have any bootup issues after restoring the image!

    I own both IFW and DS so 'I don't have an axe to grind' in that regard. Yes, DS is more expensive than IFW, but the fact of the matter is that DS simply works much better for me! Can you accept that?

    Scott
     
  18. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Scott,

    I've seen those inappropriate PHYLock warnings in the past but I can't recall under what circumstances. I tried all sorts of combinations with IFW in WinPEs yesterday but couldn't create a warning. Sorry, I don't understand this.

    I don't create raw images and I've read the TeraByte explanation you posted. Can other apps create differential raw images?
     
  19. Scott W

    Scott W Registered Member

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    Brian, I get that rediculous warning everytime I run IFW from a WinPE boot disk! As far as understanding why, imho IFW was not designed to be a portable app, so it therefore 'thinks' that Phylock (or VSS) is necessary to lock C: even though we both know that it's not when creating a cold-image!


    Well I can categorically tell you that DS can! I've created a few diff. raw (cold) images of my RB system and I've restored a couple of them just to prove their integrity! ;)

    Scott

    ------
    Edit: I might add that it takes just about as long to create a diff raw cold image as it does a full raw cold image (with DS), but the diff usually consumes a lot less backup storage space!
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2011
  20. pandlouk

    pandlouk Registered Member

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    Hi Scott W,

    what version of IFW have you used? Most of the problems that you described in the various threads, I have encountered them when by mistake I installed the trial version of IFW instead of the full version.

    - About the response from David.
    I have to disagree, from the tests that I made https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=1832403&postcount=101 a raw (of a partition) does take account of the file table of the partition, at least during the restore...

    Panagiotis
     
  21. Scott W

    Scott W Registered Member

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    Hi there,

    A licensed copy of IFW v2.66 gave me those issues after installing it on a WinPE boot disk for cold-imaging and restoring.

    Scott
     
  22. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    Hi Brian,

    I think the problem is Rollback Rx and not IFW. Only IFW (not any other imaging programs) allows for HOT imaging with Rollback Rx installed with all snapshots of Rollback Rx, including the baseline snapshot. One of the condition is RAW imaging.

    However, if one does COLD imaging with Rollback Rx installed with all snapshots of Rollback Rx, including the baseline snapshot. The RAW imaging will not work. The reason being that Rollback Rx is installed outside the operating system.

    Check out the following documents put out by TheRollingFrog (Froggie).

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17664826/RBRX luvs IFW.pdf

    Best regards,

    KOR!
     
  23. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    Dear Brain,

    Another thing is to keep in mind that Rollback Rx doesn't properly work with SSDs. I have one desktop and two laptops with SSDs. I bought Rollback Rx for these three computers and after almost working for a month with Rollback Rx and SSDs, they had to issue me a refund.

    The SSDs have TRIM, and the TRIM conflicts with Rollback Rx. Therefore, they have made a workaround the TRIM, by putting the SSD in a software RAID configuration, thus in effect disabling the TRIM.

    Best regards,

    KOR!
     
  24. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    KOR,

    I'm not a Rollback user. An IFW OS restore takes me 3 minutes. I take the cynical view that Rollback is an app that consumes hours of time to save minutes.
     
  25. pandlouk

    pandlouk Registered Member

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    Scott,

    I just tested IFW with the Active boot disk and I do not see the problems that you discribe.
    IFW succesfully took an image of the partition (without any warning) and it succesfully took a raw of the partition and then a raw differential of that partition.
    I do not see those IFW limitations that you are talking about. On the other hand DS does have a limitation of not being able to take a raw of an entire drive (is only capable of taking a raw of individual partitions only).

    Panagiotis
     
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